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[DEFEATED] Commend Sacara

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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:12 pm

Giovanniland wrote:
Imperium Anglorum wrote:The WA shouldn't commend non-compilers. Compliance isn't determined by policies.

Are we really judging who gets to be recognized by the SC, which is an entirely different chamber than the GA, by this non-compliance nonsense again? People are free to vote with that criteria if they want, but please don't try imposing this view on others as you are trying to do. In my opinion it should not matter if none of the commendation is about GA contributions.

Well the SC did pass Resolution #359, Recognition of the General Assembly, so non-compliance with a GA resolution, according to that, should have consequences.

(A reason why I voted against it when it came to vote.)
Former Delegate of The West Pacific. Former Guardian (under many Delegates) of The West Pacific. TWP's Former Minister for World Assembly Affairs and former Security Council Advisor.

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Giovanniland
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Postby Giovanniland » Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:36 pm

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:
Giovanniland wrote:Are we really judging who gets to be recognized by the SC, which is an entirely different chamber than the GA, by this non-compliance nonsense again? People are free to vote with that criteria if they want, but please don't try imposing this view on others as you are trying to do. In my opinion it should not matter if none of the commendation is about GA contributions.

Well the SC did pass Resolution #359, Recognition of the General Assembly, so non-compliance with a GA resolution, according to that, should have consequences.

(A reason why I voted against it when it came to vote.)

And it should've never passed, I look forward to the day it is repealed. Nevertheless, there's also precedent of arguments backed by that resolution failing to make any difference against later passed resolutions whose nominees weren't GA contributors either, so hopefully it is the same here.
Last edited by Giovanniland on Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:40 pm

Giovanniland wrote:...there's also precedent of arguments backed by [SC#359] failing to make any difference against later passed resolutions whose nominees weren't GA contributors either, so hopefully it is the same here.

I would indeed note that Sacara has never made a forum post in the GA forums (or WA Archives), ever!
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Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607
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Comfed
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Postby Comfed » Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:44 pm

Despite the nominee’s strong expressed anti-abortion views on the forums, they have never actively refused to comply with a resolution as far as I can see.
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Apatosaurus
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Postby Apatosaurus » Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:43 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:
Apatosaurus wrote:Then I don't see how Sacara is not complying with GAR#499?

There's a reason why I asked a question as to whether Sacara is complying with GA 499 rather than asserting that he doesn't.

Ok, I assumed it was rhetorical, thanks for clarifying. Anyway, I don't think this needs to be a discussion about non-compliance given that I have yet to see evidence Sacara is a non-complier :P
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Hulldom
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Postby Hulldom » Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:57 pm

I don't normally comment on these things, but here goes: I'll refer to what I said re: "Commend the Holy Principality of Saint Mark", "We exist to judge merits, not morals." (Which, if I may be frank, was a much more clear-cut case of non-compliance!)

I know next-to-nothing about Sacara or their work, and quite frankly it doesn't matter. If they've done the work to merit a commend, and haven't been heinous OOC-ly, they deserve to be commended.
Last edited by Hulldom on Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:45 am

Hulldom wrote:I don't normally comment on these things, but here goes: I'll refer to what I said re: "Commend the Holy Principality of Saint Mark", "We exist to judge merits, not morals." (Which, if I may be frank, was a much more clear-cut case of non-compliance!)

I know next-to-nothing about Sacara or their work, and quite frankly it doesn't matter. If they've done the work to merit a commend, and haven't been heinous OOC-ly, they deserve to be commended.

Couldn’t agree more, but non-compliance seems to be a bug bear for some nations.
Former Delegate of The West Pacific. Former Guardian (under many Delegates) of The West Pacific. TWP's Former Minister for World Assembly Affairs and former Security Council Advisor.

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Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

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Thousand Branches
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Postby Thousand Branches » Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:20 pm

MOOOORE EDITSSSSS!! Dies. Edits:

Tinhampton wrote:REITERATING - yet again - the important role that campaigners from many nations serve in alerting world leaders to major issues of international importance, often multiple times a day,

I would remove the "yet again" bit because out of context, it's somewhat confusing (and also kind of unnecessary considering "reiterating").

Tinhampton wrote:NOTING that as of early December 2021, activists from [nation=Sacara] have gone to infinity and beyond to provide potential answers for fifteen different issues (totalling 1% of the 1,500 pressing daily issues or so that world leaders can access solutions to) regarding matters as diverse as:

Comma before "as of early".

My nitpickiness, but I think "issues" could be replaced with something mildly more IC.

Tinhampton wrote:opportunities to reform and relax parental licensing standards (known to leaders as "Mother Knows Best?");

Should the list items be capitalized? In theory it looks mildly better to me but that's your prerogative.

Tinhampton wrote:potential consequences for past use of language now widely seen as offensive in both politics ("Skeletons in the Closet") and culture ("With Friends Like These...");

Something about this sounds off, but for the life of me I cannot figure out what so ignore me for now.

Tinhampton wrote:the permissibility of allowing children to donate money to politicians, never mind to actually cast votes for them ("A Minor Political Problem");

Perhaps instead of "permissibility" something like "legitimacy"? Idk permissibility is weird to me for some reason.

"never mind to actually cast votes for them" would probably work better in parentheses.

Tinhampton wrote:whether or not to make minimum age recommendations for watching disturbing films mandatory ("Curtains for the Horrorshow");

Delete "make" and "mandatory" and instead do "mandate minimum age recommendations".

Also "for watching" could probably be "on".

Tinhampton wrote:THANKFUL for the work of many of those same Sacarians in helping campaigners from innumerable other countries frame the demands and proposed courses of action that they wish to present to world leaders in response to various potential issues they wish to raise in a manner befitting of their international significance;

"those same" is unnecessary.

Okay this clause isn't grammatically incorrect anywhere, it's just very difficult to get through. I'm genuinely not even sure what you're trying to explain here, and that's not a great sign. I would work on ways to make this clause more clear and concise.

Tinhampton wrote:FURTHER INSPIRED by the Sacarian government's maintenance of Sacara's Issues Hub, a novel tool through which leaders can view highly-condensed summaries of every issue that can be presented to them and vote on what their "favourite" issues are;

"that can be presented to them" almost feels like a rule violation? Like they're theoretically facing those problems in their nation so they're not exactly being presnted? Maybe I'm reading into this wrong. You could reskin this as like a log of all issues nations have faced in the past and/or commonly face. Similarly, the use of "favourite" really doesn't fit the mood of issues that could potentially destroy your country, ya know?

Tinhampton wrote:OBSERVING that some of Sacara's finest literary critics have also successfully organised two Horror Short Story Contests (in 2018 and 2021), which have attracted entries from storytellers in nations such as Valentine Z, Infected Mushroom, Main Nation Ministry and World Machine (known to the World Census as Shwe Tu Colony) - each of which has a strong tradition of creative writing in their own right; and

"some of" can be nixed, as can "also".

"which have attracted" --> "attracting".

Tinhampton wrote:BELIEVING that any nation which has done so much to enhance the knowledge and wisdom of so many leaders on so many occasions as has Sacara deserves recognition:

"which" might be better as "that" although either is legal.

Edits done o7 Hope these were helpful and have an awesome day!

-A
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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:45 am

Thousand Branches wrote:MOOOORE EDITSSSSS!! Dies.

>_<

<3

Thousand Branches wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:REITERATING - yet again - the important role that campaigners from many nations serve in alerting world leaders to major issues of international importance, often multiple times a day,

I would remove the "yet again" bit because out of context, it's somewhat confusing (and also kind of unnecessary considering "reiterating").

Done - I was the only person who thought that was funny.

Thousand Branches wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:NOTING that as of early December 2021, activists from [nation=Sacara] have gone to infinity and beyond to provide potential answers for fifteen different issues (totalling 1% of the 1,500 pressing daily issues or so that world leaders can access solutions to) regarding matters as diverse as:

Comma before "as of early".

My nitpickiness, but I think "issues" could be replaced with something mildly more IC.

1. done
2. I'm aware it might seem a bit too meta but my (IC) point is that people are telling world leaders about the issues they are passionate about and trying to provide possible solutions :P

Thousand Branches wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:opportunities to reform and relax parental licensing standards (known to leaders as "Mother Knows Best?");

Should the list items be capitalized? In theory it looks mildly better to me but that's your prerogative.

not fussed either way

Thousand Branches wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:potential consequences for past use of language now widely seen as offensive in both politics ("Skeletons in the Closet") and culture ("With Friends Like These...");

Something about this sounds off, but for the life of me I cannot figure out what so ignore me for now.

I have made some changes anyway! XD

Thousand Branches wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:the permissibility of allowing children to donate money to politicians, never mind to actually cast votes for them ("A Minor Political Problem");

Perhaps instead of "permissibility" something like "legitimacy"? Idk permissibility is weird to me for some reason.

"never mind to actually cast votes for them" would probably work better in parentheses.

1. yet again, done
2. not particularly fond of sticking two pairs of brackets next to each other, sorry =P

Thousand Branches wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:whether or not to make minimum age recommendations for watching disturbing films mandatory ("Curtains for the Horrorshow");

Delete "make" and "mandatory" and instead do "mandate minimum age recommendations".

Also "for watching" could probably be "on".

"to mandate minimum age recommendations on disturbing films..." not exactly sold on this one. Not only does it sound off but that issue's description makes clear that "movie theaters across @@CAPITAL@@ have been allowing children as young as five to watch [a] film despite the recommendation of ratings boards that [it] is suitable only for adults" :P

Thousand Branches wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:THANKFUL for the work of many of those same Sacarians in helping campaigners from innumerable other countries frame the demands and proposed courses of action that they wish to present to world leaders in response to various potential issues they wish to raise in a manner befitting of their international significance;

"those same" is unnecessary.

Okay this clause isn't grammatically incorrect anywhere, it's just very difficult to get through. I'm genuinely not even sure what you're trying to explain here, and that's not a great sign. I would work on ways to make this clause more clear and concise.

1. removed
2. Is my new THANKFUL better?

Thousand Branches wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:FURTHER INSPIRED by the Sacarian government's maintenance of Sacara's Issues Hub, a novel tool through which leaders can view highly-condensed summaries of every issue that can be presented to them and vote on what their "favourite" issues are;

"that can be presented to them" almost feels like a rule violation? Like they're theoretically facing those problems in their nation so they're not exactly being pres[e]nted? Maybe I'm reading into this wrong. You could reskin this as like a log of all issues nations have faced in the past and/or commonly face.

also done

Thousand Branches wrote:Similarly, the use of "favourite" really doesn't fit the mood of issues that could potentially destroy your country, ya know?

There's a good reason I put that word in scare quotes! :P

Thousand Branches wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:OBSERVING that some of Sacara's finest literary critics have also successfully organised two Horror Short Story Contests (in 2018 and 2021), which have attracted entries from storytellers in nations such as Valentine Z, Infected Mushroom, Main Nation Ministry and World Machine (known to the World Census as Shwe Tu Colony) - each of which has a strong tradition of creative writing in their own right; and

"some of" can be nixed, as can "also".

"which have attracted" --> "attracting".

Done - I was going to argue otherwise but if the HSSC is the only Sacara-run short story contest we know of them obviously Sacara must be sending their best! XD

Thousand Branches wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:BELIEVING that any nation which has done so much to enhance the knowledge and wisdom of so many leaders on so many occasions as has Sacara deserves recognition:

"which" might be better as "that" although either is legal.

Done but wasn't hugely inclined either way

Thousand Branches wrote:Edits done o7 Hope these were helpful and have an awesome day!

-A

Thanks! o7 o7 o7
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607
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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:41 am

Proposal-A-Go-Go, as promised earlier. The first person to spot the inconsistency in this proposal gets a virtual pat on the back.

AS OF 1840 GMT ON FRIDAY: Approvals: 12 out of 59 needed (Tinhampton, Albrook, Taki Calxur, Enlais, TESDAI, Bearded Dragones, Thousand Branches, Sedgistan, Trovons, Orca and Narwhal, Treadwellia, Budgie Snugglers)
Last edited by Tinhampton on Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607
Other achievements: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; possibly very controversial; *author of the most popular WA resolution ever
Who am I, really? 46yo Tory woman w/Asperger's; Cambridge graduate; currently reading nothing much

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Apatosaurus
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Ex-Nation

Postby Apatosaurus » Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:03 pm

I will be voting for as the nominee is commendable and I think this does the job good enough, but to be honest I don't really see this passing.
Last edited by Apatosaurus on Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Great Algerstonia
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Postby Great Algerstonia » Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:38 pm

Constantly switching between for and against and abstain due to the author
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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Sat Dec 11, 2021 9:30 am

This has reached quorum and will be voted on between the minor update of today (i.e. half an hour from now) and the minor update of Wednesday 15th December. Probably. :P

AS OF 1630 GMT ON SATURDAY: Approvals: 59 out of 59 needed (Tinhampton, Albrook, Taki Calxur, Enlais, TESDAI, Bearded Dragones, Thousand Branches, Sedgistan, Trovons, Orca and Narwhal, Treadwellia, Budgie Snugglers, Cadmy, Aftenheim, The Finntopian Empire, The Unified Pumaxi, Telgan Alpha, Western Isles Of Denmark, 15th Scottish Highlanders Division, The Greastest Nation, Kingdom of Englands, Tevaris, Cheries, Dow Salold Islands, Swadonland, Onionist Randosia, USS Juneau, Wisea, Zombiedolphins, Ruinenlust, The Grand Republic of New Prussia, Edfort, The Candy Of Bottles, Fachumonn, The Hard Part, Holy Indonesian, Satn, Candensia, One Small Island, South Lacerta, His Excellency, Goatia, WinkyMaster, Smiley Bob, Potenzia, Libonesia, Noble Titans, Novum Orientis, Echoslavia, Ostatlantik, Desertiania, The Free Northern Isles, Zeiling, Baccalieu, Chairman Cities, The Scottish Republic, The Free Columbian States, Elyrethusa, Krovx Indochina)
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607
Other achievements: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; possibly very controversial; *author of the most popular WA resolution ever
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Milorum
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Postby Milorum » Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:00 am

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The Europeian Ministry of World Assembly Affairs recommends a vote AGAINST the Security Council Resolution, "Commend Sacara".
Its reasoning may be found here.

Greater Cesnica's Europeian nation.

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Nationalist Northumbria
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Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:03 am

I have voted for this resolution, and Thneedville gives it its full support.
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Morover
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Postby Morover » Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:03 am

Reading this, and with no other knowledge on the subject, it reads as though they may just barely pass the line for what I deem as commendable. However, when these sorts of candidates are somewhat close, the writing needs to be superb; it needs to tell a great story. I, unfortunately, don't see that storytelling here. Good luck, Tin, but I'm voting against for now.
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Candensia
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Postby Candensia » Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:04 am

It's always good to see deserving writers recognized for their work.

Support.
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Sylh Alanor
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sylh Alanor » Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:44 pm

This draft is so uninspired. If you're nominating an issues writer for commendation, why wouldn't you add some narrative flair to your writing? You're literally commending someone for putting a lot of effort into making the things they've written narrative and engaging, and you're doing it with a boring list. If you're not willing to put effort into this type of commendation, then I'm always going to be against.

Sacara deserves better than this. If it fails, I hope you revisit it and write creativity (which I know you can do). If it passes, I hope someone repeals it and writes a better commendation.
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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:52 pm

Candensia wrote:It's always good to see deserving writers recognized for their work.

Support.

I feel Sacara is a commendable nominee but the draft does not do it justice. It's rather unremarkable in its tone and doesn't do a good job in making its case.
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Nationalist Northumbria
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Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:00 pm

I am disappointed by the increasing share of the votes cast against this proposal. Sacara deserves a commendation, and this proposal a Yes vote, regardless of anyone's personal feelings regarding its authorship.
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Thousand Branches
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Postby Thousand Branches » Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:05 pm

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:I am disappointed by the increasing share of the votes cast against this proposal. Sacara deserves a commendation, and this proposal a Yes vote, regardless of anyone's personal feelings regarding its authorship.

Written by somebody who hasn’t read any of the comments in this thread. The issue is not the commendee or the author, it is the content of the resolution, something that many people have found lacking. I consider myself a Tinhampton friend, but I too have my doubts against this. Similar to what Em said earlier, the narrative quality of the resolution is sadly unimpressive, and I would love to see this explored further if it fails, but this draft doesn’t do the commendee justice imo.
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Amerion
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Amerion » Sat Dec 11, 2021 7:55 pm

Image

The South Pacific's World Assembly Delegation has cast the Coalition's vote AGAINST this proposed resolution, Commend Sacara, and warmly encourages fellow member regions to vote AGAINST.

Image
Admiral Delegate General of the South Pacific

Unless otherwise stated, all posts are made in an individual capacity.


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SherpDaWerp
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Libertarian Police State

Postby SherpDaWerp » Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:30 pm

Out of respect for Sacara, I won't vote against, but I'm sure as hell not voting for.

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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Founded: Dec 17, 2003
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Sun Dec 12, 2021 12:15 am

While my Delegate has voted for this resolution for reasons of state, my recommendation was to vote against.

While Sacara is, in my mind, a Commendable nominee, this proposal does not do them justice. It is a lazy piece of work thrown together by an author who seems to believe that all they have to do is the minimum to get a pass.

Hopefully their recent setbacks in the GA and likely here with this attempt will disabuse them of that notion.
Former Delegate of The West Pacific. Former Guardian (under many Delegates) of The West Pacific. TWP's Former Minister for World Assembly Affairs and former Security Council Advisor.

The West Pacific's Official Welshman, Astronomer and Old Fart

Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

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