[PASSED] Commend Imkiville

[Fauxia]

Since I was the one saying you should listen to TSP here, I'm going to make it clear that I also think it seems like a good call to include TSP stuff, at least the MoMA, since Roavin, Auphelia, and W&S have all come out in favor of it. I am sure that that sample distorts the reality of TSP's voter base far less than Glen does.

[Aumeltopia]

As a graphic designer and artist I look up to immensely, as a key figure in turning the SPSF into the dynamic force it is today, and of course as the one who did the right thing in Lazarus, Imki is, in my view, completely deserving of a commendation.

I'm not prepared to say who is right and who is wrong among the many, likely biased accounts of the Hileville coup. But I do know that she was not a "net negative" for the SPSF. Do keep it in, please.

[Tsunamy]

TSP's administrative team was deeply politicized during that era, and it has only become less so because TSP has been reshaped in Glen's image and he no longer has reason to abuse his authority.

I'll keep this short because imo this is off topic, but I don't think it's fair to say TSP admin admin was deeply politicized or that the only reason it has become less so is because the region has been "shaped in Glen's image." Glen has been nothing but a diligent admin for TSP and objectively hasn't made the politicized admin decisions he's accused of. Regardless of your views of Glen and his politics inside or outside the region, it's categorically wrong to say they influenced his admin responsibilities.

I have no opinion on the commendation, but wanted to set the record straight in this regard.

[Belschaft]

There will never be a single story of 2016 Constitutional Kerfuffle and it's causes which everyone in TSP agrees to, but I've always felt that there were no real heroes or villains in it - just people who stopped communicating and trusting in each other. Tsunamy is probably the only person involved who was entirely blameless, being the one person who everyone still trusted - it's why they are who TSP turned to when someone was needed to lead the reconstruction and healing process.

Imki is entirely worthy of Commendation, and her time in TSP is a key element of her journey in NS and part of why she is the player she is. To omit it would do both Imki and TSP a diservice.

[Unibot III]

It's ridiculous to see Cormac continue to defend Imki and other participants of that coup and argue for reconciliation -- he would have been outraged if someone had tried to coup Osiris to rid Osiris of him, and I doubt very much he would have found their arguments in those cases justified.

In a democratic society, there's a process in place for removing people that need to be removed from office. The occupiers chose to skip that step and bring dishonour to the Coalition instead.

That's probably true, as no one likes being removed from a region, but there can be justified reasons to remove someone from a region and sometimes when your institutions fail it's necessary to take extrajudicial action. Think back, for example, to the decision in Osiris to just give those involved in the December 2012 coup amnesty through a very lenient plea agreement because it was clear Osiris' institutions could not convict them of any crimes, due to their manipulation of those institutions. Osiris would have been far better off if officials had made the decision to just extrajudicially remove them from the region, ironically something Glen himself has argued since the decision to grant them amnesty was made. Fairly sure you've argued it in the past too, though I may be mistaken.

The OFO 1.0 decided not to make the mistakes of the KRO and extralegally removed them from Osiris, though of course circumstances in that case were somewhat different than the actions Hileville later took in TSP, because Osiris' democratic government had already been dissolved by Detective Figs months earlier. OFO 1.0 was, in effect, "couping a coup" as the transitional government established by Detective Figs still had no constitutional basis.

I quite agree that nobody likes to be banned from a region they've contributed in - and sometimes it is necessary (for instance, my ban in TRR) - but that's exactly why the process of banning these contributors has to be fair and justified, not arbitrary, and through a channel legally authorized, because we all want to be treated with respect.

Not trying to "win" the argument or anything (it's ancient history at this point), but in the case of the December 2012, I was very, very strongly against the amnesty granted to The Empire and its participants. In fact I recall yelling St. George's poor ear off about it. St. George believed it was a necessary move to bring peace and keep the Osiris government from falling. Earth & I were on vacation when this was unfolding at NYE.

In my opinion, amnesty is a terrible, knee-jerk reaction that governments make after coups and crises, and this move tends to enable and faciliate more problems down the road because you're not upholding the rule of law and you're not holding people to account for their actions. My preference is always for a penalty/ban with a graduated pathway to reintegration over time (like a pardon) - I don't like permanant bans for these situations because they tend to be politicized.

If a democracy is to survive, there has to be respect for the rule of law and the process at hand. Osiris in 2013 was in a unique situation in that it was essentially a failed state - OFO was filling a vacuum. Players shouldn't in a working constitutional democracy just go "we don't like x" and go coup the region - that's no way to run a democracy. Would Hileville had liked it if cabinet had couped to remove him from adminstrator? That is no civil foundation to build a democracy on. The reality is in a democracy you're going to have fellow citizens in the region that you don't like, that you don't agree with very much - but you need to respect the laws, respect the government, and respect others' rights within your region.

Now, I'm no perfect model of respect, haha, but I've learned a thing or two since I started playing this game. And the first thing I've learned is never attack the character of someone you don't know, and I don't know Imkiville, and can't attest to their character. But I know their actions in 2016 were wrong and I think it is mistaken to characterize the crisis as simply a "trust" problem or a 'both sides' issue because I know from the bottom of my heart, Glen-Rhodes would never coup or assist a coup of a democracy, and certainly not the South Pacific. That in my view is an important distinction between Glen-Rhodes and the people who orchestrated and supported the 2016 attack on the South Pacific. People have tried to undermine TSP's election system to stop G-R from getting elected and people have tried to coup TSP to get G-R out of TSP... but there's not a shred of evidence in my mind to suggest Glen-Rhodes would ever try to manipulate a election, coup a democracy, or bring dishonour to the coalition ... and certainly not to just oppose some person he doesn't like.

[Debussy]

A new draft is up. I hope it addresses a lot of the concerns raised.

[Zukchiva]

The Security Council,

Recognizing the nation of Imkiville, also known as Imkihca, for their incredible leadership during an extremely turbulent time in Lazarene history, leadership that should be exemplified by those who wish to advance the mission of this Council,

Noting that in July of 2017, Civil War started to brew in Lazarus when long time native and then current Delegate, Funkadelia, alongside their cohorts, Killer Kitty and Lamb Stone, began abusing their authority to import voters, subvert laws, and eventually eject several high officials to overthrow the Celestial Union of Lazarus. and subvert laws,

Observing that the unstable situation came to a boiling point on the 24th of July when Funkadelia, aided by then Guardian, Killer Kitty, ejected several high-ranking government members, including three Guardians and the Vice-Delegate, on conspiracy charges, effectively ending the Celestial Union of Lazarus,

Remarking that on the 27th of August, with political opposition out of the way, the perpetrators of the overthrow established the Undead Dominion of Lazarus, a despotic regime that was a sharp regression from the democratic practices of the prior government,

Recording that when Funkadelia stepped down on the 12th of March 2018, the Undead Dominion was replaced by the Khanate of Lazarus, a perverse distortion of government that further denigrated the integrity of the region,

Further noting during the next few months, Funkadelia and their cohort went on to establish the Undead Dominion of Lazarus and later on the Khanate of Lazarus- both autocratic governments which went against Lazarus's democratic traditions.

Relieved that on the 23rd of April 2018, with Lazarus 10 months into its Civil War, Imkiville successfully overthrew the then leader of the Khanate, Killer Kitty. and Following this, Imki established a period of Anarchy to allow for the eventual institution of a new government, a move which was widely supported by the international community,

Applauding that during the aforementioned period, Imkiville allowed natives that were previously banished to return to Lazarus while simultaneously allowing those supportive of the previous government to remain, going as far as appointing Killer Kitty to the Council of Lazarene Security,

Admiring the intentions of the Peace Keeping Agreement, a document signed by Imkiville and the governments of Osiris, The Rejected Realms, The West Pacific, The East Pacific, The South Pacific, and The Pacific, that outlined a new Constitutional Convention for Lazarus to be run by a group of former Lazarene Delegates while the signatories assissted in protecting Imkiville's Delegacy during the turbulent time,

Believing that while the Constitutional Convention had been build on good intentions, it was held back by a lack of trust, dirty politics, and a perceived power vacuum in the region, and that when Imkiville dissolved the convention and installed Mandate XII, it was the best move to start repairing burnt bridges,

Amazed that when it became clear the Convention was falling into a mire of distrust and confusion, Imkiville took initiative and dissolved the Convention. Imki then implemented Mandate XII as the new Constitution of Lazarus, which remains the basis of Lazarus's current government.

[INSERT REST OF PROPOSAL]

Some fixes I think that helps to tie the narrative together.

If anything I would strongly suggest cutting down some of the background regarding the Civil War if nothing else. I know I asked you to explain why Killer Kitty was the bad person and you explained it well, but I feel this went a bit too far in recounting the history. It can be kept shorter yet achieve the same purpose.

Appreciating the contributions Imkiville has made to The South Pacific, most notably their work as Minister of Military Affairs, where they are credited with reviving the South Pacific Special Forces and creating the foundations that have made it a successful force to this day,

I still think it could be helpful to specify more here. Imki certainly had to take a lot of initiatives to build up SPSF- and based on this thread, there are a lot of people you could reach out too to get more information on that I think.

[Imkihca]

I want to take a moment to thank Deb, Dom and anyone else that helped them for taking the time to work on this commendation in my honour. I’m also very grateful to everyone that has spoken in favour of it and my actions. Regardless of if it passes or not, I’m flattered that so many think so well of me and that will always mean more to me than any badge. <3
I don’t know what the etiquette is surrounding posting in your own commendation thread so I’m sorry if this is considered bad form but I feel the need to respond to and clarify my position in my own words on some things for the peanut gallery so they can know both sides.

TSP's admin team was not "politicized." The whole basis of Hileville's coup was that an admin (Kris) should've allegedly lost citizenship because he didn't post on the forums. The issue was that Kris did post, just not in places that Imki (Vice Delegate) could see. The admins were the ones that previously did citizenship checks, and when that was shifted to the Vice Delegate, the forum permissions and the laws of which areas "counted" didn't change. It went from admins doing activity checks to the VD doing the checks and sending admins a list of inactive nations. It was admins that wanted to VD to do the checks, so that we weren't being asked to conduct a political function, since people tended to get up in arms any time a popular person went inactive and had their citizenship removed.

There were no laws about what areas of the forums counted for citizenship checks, just that the vice delegate did them. In Tsu's own words at the time; "I do think he's right in that his posting in the admin forums have previously counted for activity. I would personally hesitate to fight that without clarification from the Assembly. (I would, however, welcome clarification from the Assembly on that. I think you made a valid point in the CSS forum as to whether or not that count is appropriate.)"
Which I admit, I didn't go to the assembly at the time as I should have but as someone that has always been anti-politick and had only been playing the game for six months, I went to my partner Hile and the rest of the cabinet to discuss how to go about it to try and write something up with people with more experience in that area than I. I have since learnt from that mistake and have no qualms about going public now.

The admins (not just me) gave Imki the proof of the posts Kris made, explained that Kris did meet the requirements, and we would create something so that the VD could see total posts in all areas, even if they didn't have access to the forums. (In the meantime, the laws around what areas of the forum counted were never changed.) I made the custom page Roavin mentioned, that gave all that information straight from the forum database. Never heard a word from Imki on the subject again. Not until Hileville and she couped and offered that as their reason, referring to it as "admin abuse."

Again, there were no laws to change and as you yourself have said you wanted admins to be less political and that they are not beholden to regional law as you deal with OOC matters then why should the part of the forums that deal with that be counted in a completely IC governmental citizenship check? It did not matter that you thought it counted because your position as a non-political admin should not override the government in charge of that matter in my opinion and the opinion of the rest of the cabinet at the time. The fact Kris was himself saying he was retired in his personal IRC channel and asking how the region was instead of looking in and posting in the spam games as he so often had done before, did also convince me that he was no longer interested in retaining his citizenship. The fact he game back almost immediately after I'd begun messaging you and Tsu about it also struck me as suspiciously coincidental and dropped my trust that we could come to you guys about such issues even more.

It was a wholly concocted story. In reality, what really happened is that Hileville wanted to be in charge of everything again. He used to own TSP's forums, until he ragequit and shut down the IP.Board install he owned, leaving us to scramble to set up our current MyBB forum. A while after that, he re-entered TSP and worked his way up to Delegate. It doesn't take a genius to understand his motives, especially when he hijacked the TSP domain to point at his own forums.

I can't speak for Hile's motivation but considering I was the one that instigated the whole situation, I highly doubt this was the case. I sure as hell didn't want to be an admin again because I know what a thankless, awful job it can be.

Anyways, even if you bought the propaganda they invented about "admin abuse" at the time, TSP's court sided against them. They ignored the court, declared the Charter invalid, and then proceeded to ban the justice (Farengeto). At that point, it was undeniably a coup. And that's what Imki still feels she was in the right taking part in. She was debatably given "amnesty" (though never sincerely apologized for her involvement, which was a requirement) because Tsunamy demanded it and browbeat the rest of us into it in the spirit of "unity." If Imki actually was contrite, rather than saying she was right and would do it again every time she's asked, the story would be different here. But she's not.

A lot of people did "buy it" because we weren't the first to say as much, there was a history of shady dealings going on before we even came into office, like the court leak for example, that had already shaken the trust in certain members of the admin team. As for the court judgment at the time, well the head of court was Kris's team mate in the election they lost to Hile and I. Doesn't take a huge leap to put that together, Faren should have stood down due to conflict of interest.
There's nothing debatable about the amnesty we were granted, Tsu, as respected as he is, doesn't have the ability to make the whole region vote the way he wants. The region voted in favour of the amnesty, as can be seen on your own forums here
I have also apologised repeatedly for the upheaval I caused, what Glen actually means is I didn't grovel for forgiveness from him. I sent personal telegrams to multiple members of the region that had been affected by the upheaval through no fault of their own, repeatedly stated that yes, we made a rash mistake and should have done things differently but I am not a liar, I'm not going to say we were totally in the wrong with our reasoning because I do not feel we were. Saying otherwise would be insincere, I do not say things I don't mean. If it came down to it again, I wouldn't hesitate to fight, I would be a lot wiser about how I went about it though. We live and learn.~

I don't care what she did as Minister of Military Affairs. Her net contribution to TSP was negative. Why anybody thinks her commendation should stand on anything related to TSP is mystifying. She did far more in other regions and TSP is, if anything, a stain on her career. It baffles me that anybody would bother with the headache of trying to include TSP, when the commendation can easily be passed without it. Is the only reason basically trolling those Imki banned in the coup? Makes no sense.

Several members of your own region have chimed in saying they think otherwise, notable, respected people that have actually served in the military and not just bitched from the sidelines. I hope people will pay more attention to them than some gadfly that hasn't left his armchair since long before I even started playing.

[A Bloodred Moon]

The Security Council,

Recognizing the nation of Imkiville, also known as Imkihca, for their incredible leadership during an extremely turbulent time in Lazarene history, leadership that should be exemplified by those who wish to advance the mission of this Council,

While I agree with this, I fear non-gameplayers or people unfamiliar with Lazarus might not understand what the focus on Lazarus is about here. Might I suggest “leadership during turbulent times” instead, both referring to TSP and Lazarus?

Noting that in July of 2017, Civil War started to brew in Lazarus when long time native and then current Delegate, Funkadelia, alongside their cohorts, Killer Kitty and Lamb Stone, began abusing their authority to import voters and subvert laws,

I have trouble with this clause. It has little to nothing to do with Imki’s actual contributions, and seems to more or less take the Celestial Union’s side in the conflict. There’s a reason that government was overthrown and not installed again.

Observing that the unstable situation came to a boiling point on the 24th of July when Funkadelia, aided by then Guardian, Killer Kitty, ejected several high-ranking government members, including three Guardians and the Vice-Delegate, on conspiracy charges, effectively ending the Celestial Union of Lazarus,

Same as above, I don’t think this says much about Imki. While context is important, I believe the proposal may be better served by a brief “Lazarus was extremely unstable, here is where Imki comes in” much rather than several clauses on the conflict.

Remarking that on the 27th of August, with political opposition out of the way, the perpetrators of the overthrow established the Undead Dominion of Lazarus, a despotic regime that was a sharp regression from the democratic practices of the prior government,

This still has little to do with Imki (as an aside, Imki was on the side of the UDoL of memory serves).

Recording that when Funkadelia stepped down on the 12th of March 2018, the Undead Dominion was replaced by the Khanate of Lazarus, a perverse distortion of government that further denigrated the integrity of the region,

Relieved that on the 23rd of April 2018, with Lazarus 10 months into its Civil War, Imkiville successfully overthrew the then leader of the Khanate, Killer Kitty, and established a period of Anarchy, which was widely supported by the international community,

The anarchy could use some elaboration: why was it supported by the community, what was its purpose, etc.? You have four clauses you can merge into one if you need room.

Applauding that during the aforementioned period, Imkiville allowed natives that were previously banished to return to Lazarus while simultaneously allowing those supportive of the previous government to remain, going as far as appointing Killer Kitty to the Council of Lazarene Security,

This did not happen during anarchy, if I recall, but afterwards. The rebuilding process could use some elaboration.

Admiring the intentions of the Peace Keeping Agreement, a document signed by Imkiville and the governments of Osiris, The Rejected Realms, The West Pacific, The East Pacific, The South Pacific, and The Pacific, that outlined a new Constitutional Convention for Lazarus to be run by a group of former Lazarene Delegates,

Believing that while the Constitutional Convention had been built on good intentions, it was held back by a lack of trust, dirty politics, and a perceived power vacuum in the region, and that when Imkiville dissolved the convention and installed Mandate XII, it was the best move to start repairing burnt bridges,

Perhaps some expansion on how the region forged its own path following withdrawal from the Convention?

What I’d personally like to see is more of a focus on Imki’s own leadership in Lazarus, her highly successful tenure as delegate, cutting back on the overly detailed background to the Civil War and replacing it with how she rebuilt the region.

Other than that, I am in full support of commending Imki, but I do believe this draft would benefit from some changes.

[TESDAI]

Asserting that the contributions of Imkiville should not be overlooked and merit recognition from this Council, and that awesome is the best description of the nation,

Already been pointed out, but I am not a fan of the ending of this line either.

Otherwise, definitely a commendable nation, and it seems issues with content has been fixed and filled out through the drafting phase so far. There’s possibly other improvements I’m overlooking, but the proposal has my support.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

When the first five paragraphs of a proposal do not mention the nominee at all and just provide background, you think filler.

Sorry, too much fluff, not enough Commendable actions and I have recommended that our Delegate vote against when it comes to vote.

[The Python]

While this could be better written and could probably have stayed in drafting a bit longer, this is good enough and the nominee is extremely deserving.

Full support

[WayNeacTia]

While this could be better written and could probably have stayed in drafting a bit longer, this is good enough and the nominee is extremely deserving.

Full support

I'd be curious if you would show the same level of support for say Jakker City?

[The Python]

While this could be better written and could probably have stayed in drafting a bit longer, this is good enough and the nominee is extremely deserving.

Full support

I'd be curious if you would show the same level of support for say Jakker City?

lol k.

[Axixic]

Not a member of WA. Puppets should not be commended. Nothing personal

[Tringapore]

Does everyone think that the last statement is a tad childish and kiddy?

Yes, I do.

[The Hazar Amisnery]

Lazarus is a sinker region so even if the region died it would still live up to its purpose (Komedy )
Its funny how Imkiville saved Lazarus yet they don't even have a position in the government.

[WayNeacTia]

I'd be curious if you would show the same level of support for say Jakker City?

lol k.

Snark aside, you didn't bother to answer my question.

[Marxist Germany]

OOC: This proposal focuses almost-exclusively on the civil war, and spends 4 clauses discussing LWU and Co.'s crimes as opposed to Imkiville's achievements. Two, short footnotes at the bottom are not enough to commend someone, and Imkiville is not the only person to overthrow a coup. I will not be supporting this due to its poor writing.

[Shallow Creek]

The Council of Shallow Creek has debated, and after four and a half bottles of wine, constant lecturing from our Council member’s mother-in-laws, and dining on our specialty meal of three green onions and a potato, The Empire of Shallow Creek has decided not to support this to protect the interests of the South Pacific.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Full support from me personally, really glad to see Imki being commended!

This is also receiving strong (currently unanimous 15-0) support from Entropy's residents who are voting on our Discord server and our Delegate voted in favor.

[The Church of Satan]

I couldn't possibly vote in favor of a resolution that celebrates how Imki ended a coup and took over a region by becoming a dictator until she got bored or no longer had the time to oversee her regime. Which by the way seems to be a pattern for her.

Against.

[The Python]

I couldn't possibly vote in favor of a resolution that celebrates how Imki ended a coup and took over a region by becoming a dictator until she got bored or no longer had the time to oversee her regime. Which by the way seems to be a pattern for her.

Bruh, while Lazarus does have autocratic leanings atm, the head of government/PM is elected, and there is a citizens' legislature. So no, I don't see your point about how Imki declared herself dictator after becoming delegate.

[The Church of Satan]

Bruh, while Lazarus does have autocratic leanings atm, the head of government/PM is elected, and there is a citizens' legislature. So no, I don't see your point about how Imki declared herself dictator after becoming delegate.

As bad as the constitutional convention was, ending it by force is not commendable. The only redeemable thing about Imki's actions is that Tubbius became delegate when she was done. Because he's so unlike her.

[The Python]

Bruh, while Lazarus does have autocratic leanings atm, the head of government/PM is elected, and there is a citizens' legislature. So no, I don't see your point about how Imki declared herself dictator after becoming delegate.

As bad as the constitutional convention was, ending it by force is not commendable. The only redeemable thing about Imki's actions is that Tubbius became delegate when she was done. Because he's so unlike her.

Well your point about Imki declaring herself dictator is not accurate, as yes Lazarus is at least to some degree, democratic (though yes, it has autocratic leanings sometimes)