NationStates

Here is an updated/improved draft of Liberate The Embassy following the discussion here. Originally I was not going to write this, however I've become concerned that the proposal would not pass if it were the previous version, and would prefer to delay passage by a few days than allow an inevitably failing proposal to go to vote.

I stand by the justifications here for why I support the proposal.

The Security Council,

Noting the recent infiltration and invasion of The Embassy by raider forces,

Celebrating this region’s goal of “be[ing] the largest connector of diversity amongst regions, connecting thousands to each other through a single, neutral point”,

Believing that all regions which do not espouse hateful ideology or undermine the sovereignty of other regions should have the autonomy to pursue their chosen foreign affairs strategies, regardless of the perceived value of those strategies by other regions,

Observing how The Embassy developed an extensive record of interregional communication on its regional message board, which served as a forum for communication between a diversity of regions,

Further noting that there resides within The Embassy an expressed native desire for the occupation to end and retain the regional message board,

Concerned that occupying forces may attempt to alter the regional password, making efforts at liberation impossible, and attempt to forcibly remove the native nations and refound the region, thereby destroying the cultural heritage of The Embassy’s regional message board,

Confident that, if occupiers are unable to permanently secure the region using a secret password, they will eventually withdraw due to a lack of resources, thereby creating space for this liberation to be repealed and a secret regional password reimposed by the native residents,

Hereby liberates The Embassy.

You mentioned some sort of negotiation with some native guy. Any updates on that?

Baedan wrote:You mentioned some sort of negotiation with some native guy. Any updates on that?

Negotiation is not the right word, I don't make demands of natives. I offer them options and explain the benefits and drawbacks of those options.

I last heard back at 1:54 PM EST. I responded at 2:15 PM EST (as I was at my computer at the time). They also said they've been busy with RL for the next 2 days and may respond sporadically. I explained the argument for what a Liberation may be necessary, they explained their concerns and their priorities for what parts of the region they'd like to secure.

If this has already made quorum when they respond and they are opposed, I will sink it. If it hasn't yet made quorum but they are opposed, I will pull it.

However, I am not going to delay and give raiders a chance to garner more influence to grief the region. Haste is essential here.

HumanSanity wrote:

Baedan wrote:You mentioned some sort of negotiation with some native guy. Any updates on that?

Negotiation is not the right word, I don't make demands of natives. I offer them options and explain the benefits and drawbacks of those options.

I last heard back at 1:54 PM EST. I responded at 2:15 PM EST (as I was at my computer at the time). They also said they've been busy with RL for the next 2 days and may respond sporadically. I explained the argument for what a Liberation may be necessary, they explained their concerns and their priorities for what parts of the region they'd like to secure.

If this has already made quorum when they respond and they are opposed, I will sink it. If it hasn't yet made quorum but they are opposed, I will pull it.

However, I am not going to delay and give raiders a chance to garner more influence to grief the region. Haste is essential here.

Ah, sorry, "conversation" would've been a better word to use there.

Moving this here:

Outer Sparta wrote:

HumanSanity wrote:It would seem that a lot of the opposition in this thread stems from the fact that the current draft is... quite bad. I'm not going to defend that draft. As a result I've submitted a new draft which does not contain any references to regions founded approximately 2 hours ago. I will open a forum thread for it momentarily and be campaigning for that proposal.

Don't you think it would be better if you drafted it first?

Have you heard of time? It's a limited and precious resource in this moment given queue jigsaw geometry and influence math. My proposal contains no factual inaccuracies and outlines a clear argument. What more do you want in this time pressured situation?

This is almost more of a joke, at least then there was a chance you weren't serious about this absurd attempt of an idea.

Varanius wrote:This is almost more of a joke, at least then there was a chance you weren't serious about this absurd attempt of an idea.

What's the problem with this?
I have read the draft and it seems good enough

Virgolia wrote:

Varanius wrote:This is almost more of a joke, at least then there was a chance you weren't serious about this absurd attempt of an idea.

What's the problem with this?
I have read the draft and it seems good enough

Other than trying to liberate a disliked and annoying embassy collector on the grounds of....the RMB?

HumanSanity wrote:Moving this here:

Outer Sparta wrote:Don't you think it would be better if you drafted it first?

Have you heard of time? It's a limited and precious resource in this moment given queue jigsaw geometry and influence math. My proposal contains no factual inaccuracies and outlines a clear argument. What more do you want in this time pressured situation?

The other liberation attempt contains many errors and issues. Not saying yours does but that's why drafting a resolution would prevent those silly errors.

Varanius wrote:

Virgolia wrote:What's the problem with this?
I have read the draft and it seems good enough

Other than trying to liberate a disliked and annoying embassy collector on the grounds of....the RMB?

That, and the one native.

Varanius wrote:

Virgolia wrote:What's the problem with this?
I have read the draft and it seems good enough

Other than trying to liberate a disliked and annoying embassy collector on the grounds of....the RMB?

Disliked by you, their thousands of embassies probably liked them. I don't see how "The Embassy" is annoying in comparison to other embassy collectors, IIRC they only send an embassy request once

Was this withdrawn? I'm not seeing it.
EDIT: Never mind.

Virgolia wrote:

Varanius wrote:Other than trying to liberate a disliked and annoying embassy collector on the grounds of....the RMB?

Disliked by you, their thousands of embassies probably liked them. I don't see how "The Embassy" is annoying in comparison to other embassy collectors, IIRC they only send an embassy request once

It’s disliked by plenty of people, including Bhang Bhang Duc, an R/D neutral, who posted his disdain for the region in the earlier thread. The only thing you’ve proven with this post is that you have no idea what’s happening in the wider NS world, and want everyone to know it.

If you are willing to delay this by multiple days in order that the other liberation should not pass, what is the incredible rush to submit this about?

Varanius wrote:

Virgolia wrote:Disliked by you, their thousands of embassies probably liked them. I don't see how "The Embassy" is annoying in comparison to other embassy collectors, IIRC they only send an embassy request once

It’s disliked by plenty of people, including Bhang Bhang Duc, an R/D neutral, who posted his disdain for the region in the earlier thread.

Ok so that's 2 people that dislike The Embassy, I still can count more that like it

Virgolia wrote:

Varanius wrote:It’s disliked by plenty of people, including Bhang Bhang Duc, an R/D neutral, who posted his disdain for the region in the earlier thread.

Ok so that's 2 people that dislike The Embassy, I still can count more that like it

WAD currently has 63 endorsements. Can you name 64 people who like TE?

Baedan wrote:

Virgolia wrote:Ok so that's 2 people that dislike The Embassy, I still can count more that like it

WAD currently has 63 endorsements. Can you name 64 people who like TE?

Well, they have 3K embassies, I imagine at least 64 do like The Embassy, and there is 77 approvals on the proposal to Liberate it, so that's more than 63

Virgolia wrote:

Varanius wrote:It’s disliked by plenty of people, including Bhang Bhang Duc, an R/D neutral, who posted his disdain for the region in the earlier thread.

Ok so that's 2 people that dislike The Embassy, I still can count more that like it

This is a spectacular fail of an argument that’s honestly not worth addressing, but I will anyways, because it’s a slow news day. By that feeble attempt at “logic”, every fascist region with a lot of embassies is also well liked, and so is Lardyland. Either try to make an argument or don’t, but please don’t continue to make posts half a thought at a time.

Varanius wrote:

Virgolia wrote:Ok so that's 2 people that dislike The Embassy, I still can count more that like it

This is a spectacular fail of an argument that’s honestly not worth addressing, but I will anyways, because it’s a slow news day. By that feeble attempt at “logic”, every fascist region with a lot of embassies is also well liked, and so is Lardyland. Either try to make an argument or don’t, but please don’t continue to make posts half a thought at a time.

well, few get mad when fascist regions get raided, but reading the RMB of The Embassy and that GP thread some dude made about the invasion it seems there is a bunch of people not very happy about it

I think there is more outrage about The Embassy getting raided that there would be if TWP ever got deleted tbh

Wallenburg wrote:If you are willing to delay this by multiple days in order that the other liberation should not pass, what is the incredible rush to submit this about?

Let's clarify my queue submission order math:

• Currently, Sorianora's proposal is in queue. My perception, based on unanimous backlash in the other thread, private discussions, and reading public regional forums, is that this proposal will fail. I originally supported it as the most expedient way to get this passed, however I'm a bit unwilling to gamble that it will pass. Absent further action, this will reach vote in 5.5 hours at major update.
• I telegrammed Sorianora with my intent to work on my own proposal with better writing. They have offered to me to pull their proposal but have not actually done so yet.
• Should it reach vote, I will vote for it and I will campaign for it and argue for it.
• I am more optimistic that this proposal will pass, and if it makes it to queue instead of the Solarampa proposal, I will also campaign for it and vote for it.

My goal is passing a liberation for The Embassy as quickly as possible and I will attempt to do so through whatever pathway the world permits.

Varanius wrote:

Virgolia wrote:Disliked by you, their thousands of embassies probably liked them. I don't see how "The Embassy" is annoying in comparison to other embassy collectors, IIRC they only send an embassy request once

It’s disliked by plenty of people, including Bhang Bhang Duc, an R/D neutral, who posted his disdain for the region in the earlier thread. The only thing you’ve proven with this post is that you have no idea what’s happening in the wider NS world, and want everyone to know it.

Not everyone likes The Embassy, but plenty of people have agreed to work with them, and their RMB is a site of communication the record of which should remain publicly available and be preserved. Virgolia is plenty aware of what is going on and is representing a different viewpoint on what value in this game. Virgolia is also an R/D neutral.

Your attitude of belittling other contributors instead of responding to their arguments is troubling. Just saying something in a sarcastic voice does not make it not a thing we should value.

Baedan wrote:

Virgolia wrote:Ok so that's 2 people that dislike The Embassy, I still can count more that like it

WAD currently has 63 endorsements. Can you name 64 people who like TE?

Eventually, if the region is SC Liberated, it will be operationally infeasible to maintain that high of a pile and raiders will pack their bags.

Like them or not, The Embassy is a part of NS history, and a lot of nations in smaller regions rely on them to provide a place to chat with other nations in other regions. Personally, I implore every WA nation to vote for this liberation. (Not biased against the raiders in any way lol)

Unfortunately, it'll be too late. It'll pass about a day and a half after all of its embassies close. However, it will still be an important piece of NS history and it needs to be preserved. Will you help keep our history alive?

Virgolia wrote:I think there is more outrage about The Embassy getting raided that there would be if TWP ever got deleted tbh

To save myself some time, I’ll just repeat myself:

Varanius wrote:The only thing you’ve proven with this post is that you have no idea what’s happening in the wider NS world, and want everyone to know it.

Varanius wrote:

Virgolia wrote:Ok so that's 2 people that dislike The Embassy, I still can count more that like it

This is a spectacular fail of an argument that’s honestly not worth addressing, but I will anyways, because it’s a slow news day. By that feeble attempt at “logic”, every fascist region with a lot of embassies is also well liked, and so is Lardyland. Either try to make an argument or don’t, but please don’t continue to make posts half a thought at a time.

Every fascist region with a lot of embassies is well liked, among fascists. The Embassy's embassies were with the broader interregional community, which is not fascist. What is this argument, and how did you think it actually supports letting a region be destroyed?

Wallenburg wrote:

Varanius wrote:This is a spectacular fail of an argument that’s honestly not worth addressing, but I will anyways, because it’s a slow news day. By that feeble attempt at “logic”, every fascist region with a lot of embassies is also well liked, and so is Lardyland. Either try to make an argument or don’t, but please don’t continue to make posts half a thought at a time.

Every fascist region with a lot of embassies is well liked, among fascists. The Embassy's embassies were with the broader interregional community, which is not fascist. What is this argument, and how did you think it actually supports letting a region be destroyed?

And I’m sure it’s very well liked in said backwaters. And in regards to “a region being destroyed”...please. It has a single “native” in it. The only thing being “saved” is a few embassies of nowhere regions who will probably be just find making an embassy with some other embassy collector. There’s hardly anything to be destroyed.

Varanius wrote:And I’m sure it’s very well liked in said backwaters. And in regards to “a region being destroyed”...please. It has a single “native” in it. The only thing being “saved” is a few embassies of nowhere regions who will probably be just find making an embassy with some other embassy collector. There’s hardly anything to be destroyed.

Why does it not surprise me that you consider the entire NS community (except you and your buddies, I imagine) "backwaters"?