[PASSED] Death Penalty Ban

[Tinfect]

OOC: I would agree with this both IC and OOC. I read it right now, though, as continuing to prohibit capital punishment for crimes against humanity occurring outside of wartime or not being prosecuted by a specifically military court. RL examples of such cases might be found in Rwanda or Indonesia.

OOC:
IA, is this the case or not?

[Imperium Germaniae]

The government of Imperium Germaniae supports this proposal. While capital punishment is legal in Imperium Germaniae, the new government is looking to abolish capital punishment and believes this proposal is necessary internationally.

[Greater Cesnica]

The government of Imperium Germaniae supports this proposal. While capital punishment is legal in Imperium Germaniae, the new government is looking to abolish capital punishment and believes this proposal is necessary internationally.

IC: "Excellent, Ambassador. Your nation is setting a positive precedent for other nations to follow."

[Honeydewistania]

By having the military exemption, we're still going to end up executing some innocents. What's the point?

[Greater Cesnica]

By having the military exemption, we're still going to end up executing some innocents. What's the point?

OOC: A blocker is not present, which is very important. We can legislate on fully closing the gap later on.

[Sierra Lyricalia]

By having the military exemption, we're still going to end up executing some innocents. What's the point?

OOC: How many soldiers have been wrongly convicted of war crimes? This isn't a rhetorical question; there are clear differences between a civilian court system dealing with all kinds of criminals under all kinds of petty laws, vs. a military court trying its own warriors for war crimes. If anything the military court has a higher incentive to find its defendants innocent, lest the good name of our fighting men and women become tarnished. Where the military court is trying foreign or enemy soldiers, this argument becomes murkier; but I'd be curious to learn statistics. Even the Nuremburg Tribunal only sentenced 12 people to death for their crimes. I think the concern about wrongful convictions in this area is overstating the problem (if it exists). Ordinary criminal justice systems are far more liable to falsely convict, and thus far more justified recipients of a total ban on capital punishment.

TL;dr - the military exception doesn't generate enough wrongful convictions to matter here, while serving as an important symbolic message to victims of genocides and other war crimes that the world holds these things to be utterly unforgiveable.

[Honeydewistania]

By having the military exemption, we're still going to end up executing some innocents. What's the point?

OOC: How many soldiers have been wrongly convicted of war crimes? This isn't a rhetorical question; there are clear differences between a civilian court system dealing with all kinds of criminals under all kinds of petty laws, vs. a military court trying its own warriors for war crimes. If anything the military court has a higher incentive to find its defendants innocent, lest the good name of our fighting men and women become tarnished. Where the military court is trying foreign or enemy soldiers, this argument becomes murkier; but I'd be curious to learn statistics. Even the Nuremburg Tribunal only sentenced 12 people to death for their crimes. I think the concern about wrongful convictions in this area is overstating the problem (if it exists). Ordinary criminal justice systems are far more liable to falsely convict, and thus far more justified recipients of a total ban on capital punishment.

TL;dr - the military exception doesn't generate enough wrongful convictions to matter here, while serving as an important symbolic message to victims of genocides and other war crimes that the world holds these things to be utterly unforgiveable.

Ah, thanks.

Carry on!

[Anarchist Republic of Melodia]

The ARM held two internal elections on this issue - one amongst the General Assembly of Commodores and one amongst the Assembly of Municipal Leaders. As a result of both elections coming out in favour of supporting this legislation, the Anarchist Republic of Melodia offers full support. We hold that it should not be the authority of a hierarchical state power to determine the line between life and death.

- High Commodore Melody

[Greater Cesnica]

The ARM held two internal elections on this issue - one amongst the General Assembly of Commodores and one amongst the Assembly of Municipal Leaders. As a result of both elections coming out in favour of supporting this legislation, the Anarchist Republic of Melodia offers full support. We hold that it should not be the authority of a hierarchical state power to determine the line between life and death.

- High Commodore Melody

IC: "It's rather assuring to see a self-proclaimed anarchist nation stay true to anarchist values."

[Anarchist Republic of Melodia]

IC: "It's rather assuring to see a self-proclaimed anarchist nation stay true to anarchist values."

The first of many such decisions on the world stage in line with our founding principles, we should hope.

- High Commodore Melody

[Attempted Socialism]

By having the military exemption, we're still going to end up executing some innocents. What's the point?

OOC: How many soldiers have been wrongly convicted of war crimes? This isn't a rhetorical question; there are clear differences between a civilian court system dealing with all kinds of criminals under all kinds of petty laws, vs. a military court trying its own warriors for war crimes. If anything the military court has a higher incentive to find its defendants innocent, lest the good name of our fighting men and women become tarnished. Where the military court is trying foreign or enemy soldiers, this argument becomes murkier; but I'd be curious to learn statistics. Even the Nuremburg Tribunal only sentenced 12 people to death for their crimes. I think the concern about wrongful convictions in this area is overstating the problem (if it exists). Ordinary criminal justice systems are far more liable to falsely convict, and thus far more justified recipients of a total ban on capital punishment.

TL;dr - the military exception doesn't generate enough wrongful convictions to matter here, while serving as an important symbolic message to victims of genocides and other war crimes that the world holds these things to be utterly unforgiveable.

I don't have numbers (Sadly). ICC (And to my knowledge, all other international courts) cannot sentence criminals to death, only prison. The US-led Coalition in Iraq arrested and jailed some Saddam-era officers. I don't think they executed anyone captured, though several were turned over to the Iraqi government and executed -- Saddam, infamously, but several other high-ranking officials as well in what has been described as a show-trial and an abrogation of justice (Made even more tragic because the Iraqi state could have convicted them in a fair trial, setting the nation on a path of reconciliation rather than cycles of violent retribution) -- or received decade-long jail sentences. I am sure something like the Iraqi show-trials happened in Libya, Congo, and Rwanda, but googling it gives me the ICC cases (Probably because I'm googling the wrong words and skimming the text).
In any case, when trying foreign soldiers or officers (In actual military courts or international tribunals rather than summary "justice" on the battlefield), it looks to me like they are rather more lenient than the victors after civil wars, who are themselves (Again, in the courts rather than during the conflict) more lenient than regular civil criminal courts handing down death sentences.

[Untecna]

Full opposition, I believe that the state has the right to administer capital punishment if they wish. I feel like if we need something to remove it, it will be a national problem and not an international one. The death penalty that we have is by lethal injection, not crude or inhumane, and all prisoners have fair trials and such.

[Greater Cesnica]

Full opposition, I believe that the state has the right to administer capital punishment if they wish. I feel like if we need something to remove it, it will be a national problem and not an international one. The death penalty that we have is by lethal injection, not crude or inhumane, and all prisoners have fair trials and such.

"Fair trials" can still convict innocents.

[Paffnia]

Full support. The state machinery of death has been allowed to whir on long enough.

[Comfed]

This is now at vote.

[ElectriKM]

“I must confess that The Novium Empire wholeheartedly disagrees with this proposal, but our Great Leader has offered no commentary for this humble ambassador to pass along to this assembly, other than their disappointment and disgust at this proposal.”

[Halexandria]

Doesn't a ban on the death penalty directly interfere with the capital punishment policy? Or is it just me thinking that?

[Greater Cesnica]

“I must confess that The Novium Empire wholeheartedly disagrees with this proposal, but our Great Leader has offered no commentary for this humble ambassador to pass along to this assembly, other than their disappointment and disgust at this proposal.”

"Ambassador, does your Great Leader believe that condemning innocents to the fate of judicial murder is acceptable? And for a perceived sense of justice and vengeance that does nothing to deter crime?"

[Greater Cesnica]

Doesn't a ban on the death penalty directly interfere with the capital punishment policy? Or is it just me thinking that?

OOC: WA legislation has no correlation with gameplay mechanics and policies.

[The New California Republic]

Full support.

[ElectriKM]

“I must confess that The Novium Empire wholeheartedly disagrees with this proposal, but our Great Leader has offered no commentary for this humble ambassador to pass along to this assembly, other than their disappointment and disgust at this proposal.”

"Ambassador, does your Great Leader believe that condemning innocents to the fate of judicial murder is acceptable? And for a perceived sense of justice and vengeance that does nothing to deter crime?"

Our Great Leader is wise in all sense of the word, and their decision making has always been impeccable and well suited for our supreme empire. All I have been informed of due to my lowly position within our exalted government is that the higher chambers have discussed and agreed with our Great and Glorious leader that a death penalty ban will simply not do. This is unfortunately all this humble servent can offer, and I hope the WA will take into account the opinions of ALL of its member nations, and not just forge ahead with a proposal that simply doesn’t fit with all of its constituents.

[Greater Cesnica]

"Ambassador, does your Great Leader believe that condemning innocents to the fate of judicial murder is acceptable? And for a perceived sense of justice and vengeance that does nothing to deter crime?"

Our Great Leader is wise in all sense of the word, and their decision making has always been impeccable and well suited for our supreme empire. All I have been informed of due to my lowly position within our exalted government is that the higher chambers have discussed and agreed with our Great and Glorious leader that a death penalty ban will simply not do. This is unfortunately all this humble servent can offer, and I hope the WA will take into account the opinions of ALL of its member nations, and not just forge ahead with a proposal that simply doesn’t fit with all of its constituents.

"The WA does take into account the sentiments of all member nations. That's how voting works, Ambassador."

[ElectriKM]

Our Great Leader is wise in all sense of the word, and their decision making has always been impeccable and well suited for our supreme empire. All I have been informed of due to my lowly position within our exalted government is that the higher chambers have discussed and agreed with our Great and Glorious leader that a death penalty ban will simply not do. This is unfortunately all this humble servent can offer, and I hope the WA will take into account the opinions of ALL of its member nations, and not just forge ahead with a proposal that simply doesn’t fit with all of its constituents.

"The WA does take into account the sentiments of all member nations. That's how voting works, Ambassador."

“You’ll have to forgive me for forgetting that fact, as we have Not held elections within our Great empire in decades. Voting simply isn’t a thing, and we are better for it”

[Kissassia]

Kissassia will never support a full ban of the death penalty in criminal court, as it believes that the judicious application and regulation of the death penalty will have a greater benefit to the most people than an outright ban, for reasons it has mentioned before while discussing previous laws.

[The Dominion of Mankind]

The typical ruling I'd expect from naive virtual signalers that don't understand sitting in a cell until you die is a worse fate than death.