[DEFEATED] Restrictions on Blood Sports

[Ancient Greek Empire]

OOC: Is it better now?

[Astrobolt]

4. Requires member states to have captive blood sport participants:

4.1 Placed in a safe and healthy environment in which they will not be groomed for blood sports or subjugated to animal abuse;
4.2 If the participant poses an immediate threat to the safety of other living beings in said environment, have them humanely put down.

OOC: 4b seems to be problematic as a 'participant' could refer to sapient participants as well. Thus having them humanely put down would seem to be endorsing capital punishment. Furthermore, even for non-sapient animals, this clause seems to mandate member states kill animals instead of suggesting other actions which don't result in the loss of life.

[Ancient Greek Empire]

4. Requires member states to have captive blood sport participants:

4.1 Placed in a safe and healthy environment in which they will not be groomed for blood sports or subjugated to animal abuse;
4.2 If the participant poses an immediate threat to the safety of other living beings in said environment, have them humanely put down.

OOC: 4b seems to be problematic as a 'participant' could refer to sapient participants as well. Thus having them humanely put down would seem to be endorsing capital punishment. Furthermore, even for non-sapient animals, this clause seems to mandate member states kill animals instead of suggesting other actions which don't result in the loss of life.

What would you suggest then?

[Old Zealand Founder]

OOC: 4b seems to be problematic as a 'participant' could refer to sapient participants as well. Thus having them humanely put down would seem to be endorsing capital punishment. Furthermore, even for non-sapient animals, this clause seems to mandate member states kill animals instead of suggesting other actions which don't result in the loss of life.

What would you suggest then?

Hmm...

I suggest you put there "relocated to an environment where they would not harm other living beings". This implies prison, but it could also refer to dog pounds, nature reserves, etc

[Kenmoria]

What would you suggest then?

Hmm...

I suggest you put there "relocated to an environment where they would not harm other living beings". This implies prison, but it could also refer to dog pounds, nature reserves, etc

(OOC: I would expand on that with ‘relocated to an environment where they would neither be harmed nor harm other living beings’, or similar wording that guarantees the safety of the captive itself.)

[Ancient Greek Empire]

Thank you

[Sierra Lyricalia]

OOC: "...a safe rehabilitative environment or, where beneficial, returned to the wild"...?

[Honeydewistania]

OOC: "...a safe rehabilitative environment or, where beneficial, returned to the wild"...?

Sure, thanks SL

[Araraukar]

OOC: Or just adding that non-sapient blood sports victims can be put down humanely.

Like, seriously, YOU CANNOT rehabilitate cocks bred and trained for cockfighting. They would have to be confined to cages for the rest of their lives (they're often aggressive towards humans as well). It's more humane to put them down.

[Ancient Greek Empire]

OOC: Or just adding that non-sapient blood sports victims can be put down humanely.

Like, seriously, YOU CANNOT rehabilitate cocks bred and trained for cockfighting. They would have to be confined to cages for the rest of their lives (they're often aggressive towards humans as well). It's more humane to put them down.

fixed

[Maowi]

"Clause 4 right now seems like a weird hybrid between regulations on how active captive blood sport participants should be cared for, and what should be done with them once they are no longer involved in the sport or the sport is banned. It might be worth making two clauses out of that and dealing with those separately."

[Ancient Greek Empire]

"Clause 4 right now seems like a weird hybrid between regulations on how active captive blood sport participants should be cared for, and what should be done with them once they are no longer involved in the sport or the sport is banned. It might be worth making two clauses out of that and dealing with those separately."

Better?

[Kenmoria]

“Clause 5 should probably involve some mentioned of bloodfighting in the clause, so that member states aren’t putting down all animals that can’t be rehabilitated.”

[Ancient Greek Empire]

“Clause 5 should probably involve some mentioned of bloodfighting in the clause, so that member states aren’t putting down all animals that can’t be rehabilitated.”

Good catch

[Maowi]

"Clause 4 right now seems like a weird hybrid between regulations on how active captive blood sport participants should be cared for, and what should be done with them once they are no longer involved in the sport or the sport is banned. It might be worth making two clauses out of that and dealing with those separately."

Better?

"I think the issue is still somewhat present in the current version. I suggest adding "former" before "captive blood sport participants" in clause 4, and also considering adding a measure to prevents such participants being reintroduced to natural areas to which they may cause extensive damage."

[Kenmoria]

“Clause 4 applies to sapient beings such as humans. I don’t think the WA ought to be forcing member nations to relocate anyone.”

[The New Sicilian State]

“Clause 4 applies to sapient beings such as humans. I don’t think the WA ought to be forcing member nations to relocate anyone.”

"What about instances in which children are forced to engage in blood sports?"

[Kenmoria]

“Clause 4 applies to sapient beings such as humans. I don’t think the WA ought to be forcing member nations to relocate anyone.”

"What about instances in which children are forced to engage in blood sports?"

“Those children ought to be returned to their parents where safe, or placed in the care system where not. Clause 4 also applies to sapient adults, most of whom should be capable of looking after themselves.

[Maowi]

“Clause 4 applies to sapient beings such as humans. I don’t think the WA ought to be forcing member nations to relocate anyone.”

"The clause refers to captive blood sport participants - rather than any and all participants. I believe as a result of other legislation preventing the enforced captivity of sapients without them having committed a crime of some sort, they would be excluded from that clause."

[Kenmoria]

“Clause 4 applies to sapient beings such as humans. I don’t think the WA ought to be forcing member nations to relocate anyone.”

"The clause refers to captive blood sport participants - rather than any and all participants. I believe as a result of other legislation preventing the enforced captivity of sapients without them having committed a crime of some sort, they would be excluded from that clause."

“I imagine that those people who run blood sport businesses wouldn’t have a particularly great interest in following GA legislation. I can’t imagine that all gladiator-style death match participants will be participating of their own free will. Therefore, they will be captive.”

[Maowi]

"The clause refers to captive blood sport participants - rather than any and all participants. I believe as a result of other legislation preventing the enforced captivity of sapients without them having committed a crime of some sort, they would be excluded from that clause."

“I imagine that those people who run blood sport businesses wouldn’t have a particularly great interest in following GA legislation. I can’t imagine that all gladiator-style death match participants will be participating of their own free will. Therefore, they will be captive.”

"I see your point, to some extent. However, should it pass, this proposal would ban blood sports without the participants' consent, and I do not think it worth writing GA legislation to account for those who will not comply with it, other than to enact penalties for non-compliance."

[Imperium Anglorum]

“I imagine that those people who run blood sport businesses wouldn’t have a particularly great interest in following GA legislation. I can’t imagine that all gladiator-style death match participants will be participating of their own free will. Therefore, they will be captive.”

EMW: Lots of people chose to become gladiators; some of them still do in the United Commonwealths, specifically the Republic of London and not the other portions. Vanishingly few of them become gladiators with the intent of dying. Even in a slave society, killing gladiators is bad business: human capital cannot be resurrected from the dead and it costs a lot of money to train gladiators.

[Honeydewistania]

“I imagine that those people who run blood sport businesses wouldn’t have a particularly great interest in following GA legislation. I can’t imagine that all gladiator-style death match participants will be participating of their own free will. Therefore, they will be captive.”

"I see your point, to some extent. However, should it pass, this proposal would ban blood sports without the participants' consent, and I do not think it worth writing GA legislation to account for those who will not comply with it, other than to enact penalties for non-compliance."

“Do you, ambassador, believe that penalties for non-compliance should be included in this proposal?”

[Kenmoria]

"I see your point, to some extent. However, should it pass, this proposal would ban blood sports without the participants' consent, and I do not think it worth writing GA legislation to account for those who will not comply with it, other than to enact penalties for non-compliance."

“Do you, ambassador, believe that penalties for non-compliance should be included in this proposal?”

(OOC: Penalties for noncompliance have already been handled by the Administrative Compliance Act.)

[Maowi]

"I see your point, to some extent. However, should it pass, this proposal would ban blood sports without the participants' consent, and I do not think it worth writing GA legislation to account for those who will not comply with it, other than to enact penalties for non-compliance."

“Do you, ambassador, believe that penalties for non-compliance should be included in this proposal?”

"I believe those have been sufficiently covered in prior legislation (OOC: as Kenmoria pointed out), and while you could consider mandating that member nations impose a specific minimum level of penalties on noncompliers within their jurisdiction, I don't think that's really necessary."