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Attancia
Secretary
 
Posts: 36
Founded: May 01, 2020
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Attancia » Thu May 21, 2020 2:27 pm

With the exception of calling "Pro-Life" "Anti-Choice", and the fact that the WA would make my mostly Traditionalist population pay in tax to allow a marginally small minority to silence their children at will, my biggest problem with this resolution is that the Author originally wrote it as a joke, despite it being on the very serious topic of forced, payed in tax child death. To so openly joke about the support killing of a child and expect - and receive - support about it is appalling. Literally mocking the fact that children will be killed because you want to swing the mighty weight of the WA libertarian left at those nations that believe children deserve a right to life? Or did the author just mock child killing for humour's sake?
Empire of Dunist wrote:There is a major difference between IRP and OORP. Please respect that border

-Dunist 2K20
The truest thing ever told.

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Logon
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 58
Founded: Dec 02, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Logon » Thu May 21, 2020 2:27 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Logon wrote:
OOC: You don't know about being nonbiased now do you?

I said it once, I'll say it again. Resign.

"Hey hey ho ho Sep Peoples has got to go!"

Ooc: please point to a situation where I, while acting in an official capacity, behaved in a biased fashion. Spoiler alert: none of my actions in this thread have been acting in an official capacity.


The fact you're showing clear bias in this thread calls into question your entire legitimacy. How do we know you don't rule legal on anything that we might dislike just to spite us? See my concerns?

"Hey hey ho ho Seps Peoples has got to go!"
Last edited by Logon on Thu May 21, 2020 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
The New California Republic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28715
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Thu May 21, 2020 2:29 pm

Logon wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:Ooc: please point to a situation where I, while acting in an official capacity, behaved in a biased fashion. Spoiler alert: none of my actions in this thread have been acting in an official capacity.


The fact you're showing clear bias in this thread calls into question your entire legitimacy. How do we know you don't rule legal on anything that we might dislike just to spite us? See my concerns?

Using baseless accusations of impropriety as a weapon in a debate is just low. If you have genuine concerns then report it, instead of shamelessly using it here.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Logon
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 58
Founded: Dec 02, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Logon » Thu May 21, 2020 2:30 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Logon wrote:
The fact you're showing clear bias in this thread calls into question your entire legitimacy. How do we know you don't rule legal on anything that we might dislike just to spite us? See my concerns?

Using baseless accusations of impropriety as a weapon in a debate is just low. If you have genuine concerns then report it, instead of shamelessly using it here.


I will in fact report it! But it's not baseless. If a judge for your trail openly said "I hate anyone who calls themself 'New California'" wouldn't you get worried?

It is easy to say bias doesn't exist when it's bias you agree with.

User avatar
Tinhampton
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7187
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Thu May 21, 2020 2:31 pm

Logon wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Using baseless accusations of impropriety as a weapon in a debate is just low. If you have genuine concerns then report it, instead of shamelessly using it here.


I will in fact report it! But it's not baseless. If a judge for your trail openly said "I hate anyone who calls themself 'New California'" wouldn't you get worried?

It is easy to say bias doesn't exist when it's bias you agree with.

Where has Separatist Peoples ever said in this thread that "I hate anyone who calls himself Logon?" :roll:
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador ~ Achievements
3 SC Resolutions + 0 co-authored:
A: SC#250, Repeal "Liberate Femdom Empire" (87%)
A: SC#251, Commend Alasdair I Frosticus (91%)
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1 GA Resolution + 1 co-authored:
A: GA#484, Disease Naming Compact (54%)
C: GA#491, Rights of the employed (54%)

1 Issue:
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Cup of Harmony 73 CHAMPIONS

User avatar
Logon
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 58
Founded: Dec 02, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Logon » Thu May 21, 2020 2:32 pm

Tinhampton wrote:
Logon wrote:
I will in fact report it! But it's not baseless. If a judge for your trail openly said "I hate anyone who calls themself 'New California'" wouldn't you get worried?

It is easy to say bias doesn't exist when it's bias you agree with.

Where has Separatist Peoples ever said in this thread that "I hate anyone who calls himself Logon?" :roll:


He didn't, but he said he supported this resolution purely out of spite for pro-lifers. Worrisome, no?

User avatar
The New California Republic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28715
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Thu May 21, 2020 2:32 pm

Logon wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Using baseless accusations of impropriety as a weapon in a debate is just low. If you have genuine concerns then report it, instead of shamelessly using it here.


I will in fact report it! But it's not baseless. If a judge for your trail openly said "I hate anyone who calls themself 'New California'" wouldn't you get worried?

It is easy to say bias doesn't exist when it's bias you agree with.

You should probably note that frivolous reports are not looked upon kindly by Moderation, if this post and your previous ones are any indication of the content of the report.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20781
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Wallenburg » Thu May 21, 2020 2:33 pm

Logon wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:Posturing about imagined persecution doesn't belong in this thread.


Imagined?

Yes, imagined. Considering this:
Logon wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:Ooc: please point to a situation where I, while acting in an official capacity, behaved in a biased fashion. Spoiler alert: none of my actions in this thread have been acting in an official capacity.


The fact you're showing clear bias in this thread calls into question your entire legitimacy. How do we know you don't rule legal on anything that we might dislike just to spite us? See my concerns?

"Hey hey ho ho Seps Peoples has got to go!"

is the best you could come up with, you're clearly just ranting about imagined persecution. Your only argument is that Sep might in the future make an improper ruling. The same could be said for any member of GenSec, or for any person who might replace them. You are speculating and calling that speculation evidence.
THERE IS NO WAR IN BA SING SE
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
Minister of World Assembly Affairs for The East Pacific

User avatar
Attancia
Secretary
 
Posts: 36
Founded: May 01, 2020
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Attancia » Thu May 21, 2020 2:36 pm

Logon wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:Where has Separatist Peoples ever said in this thread that "I hate anyone who calls himself Logon?" :roll:


He didn't, but he said he supported this resolution purely out of spite for pro-lifers. Worrisome, no?

Worrisome indeed. If a member of the Secretariat is showing clear bias purely because they have actively said they have a bias against a certain group, then they honestly shouldn't be a part of the body that approve resolutions. He may be entitled to retain his views, but to actively state them like this? Nah. Normally you'd never say something like this, but because he has the backing of the LibLeft (By that I mean, most of the Assembly), he's totally free.
Empire of Dunist wrote:There is a major difference between IRP and OORP. Please respect that border

-Dunist 2K20
The truest thing ever told.

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2574
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Thu May 21, 2020 2:40 pm

We should return to the topic at hand -- this resolution and the sinister intent behind it.

User avatar
Auralia
Senator
 
Posts: 4977
Founded: Dec 15, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Auralia » Thu May 21, 2020 2:42 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Auralia wrote:The fact that someone from GenSec would openly admit this tells us pretty much all we need to know about GA culture nowadays.

Ooc: if you feel I abused my position, you are absolutely welcome to file a report. However, since you and I both know that members of gensec are allowed to play the game as players, I doubt you'll get anywhere. Not a bad way to subtly cast aspersions on my character, but not a very effective argument. Par for the course.

Spite is objectively a bad reason to support a proposal and toxic to a game centred around collaborative authorship of legislation. It's even worse when it comes from a player in a position of authority and who serves as an example to others. Whether it technically violates a rule is irrelevant.

But of course, this can all be disregarded because of my stance on non-compliance, my misdeeds from six years ago, etc. So please, carry on.
Catholic Commonwealth of Auralia
Also known as Railana

"Amor sequitur cognitionem."

User avatar
The New California Republic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28715
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Thu May 21, 2020 2:43 pm

Attancia wrote:
Logon wrote:
He didn't, but he said he supported this resolution purely out of spite for pro-lifers. Worrisome, no?

Worrisome indeed. If a member of the Secretariat is showing clear bias purely because they have actively said they have a bias against a certain group, then they honestly shouldn't be a part of the body that approve resolutions. He may be entitled to retain his views, but to actively state them like this? Nah. Normally you'd never say something like this, but because he has the backing of the LibLeft (By that I mean, most of the Assembly), he's totally free.

Unless it can be clearly demonstrated with evidence that their views have influenced their decisions as a member of GenSec then these accusations are totally spurious.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Kenmoria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6368
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Thu May 21, 2020 2:46 pm

(OOC: This is a very minor point, but the category should be called ‘health’ rather than ‘healthcare’, in the opening post.)
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2574
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Thu May 21, 2020 2:47 pm

Kenmoria wrote:(OOC: This is a very minor point, but the category should be called ‘health’ rather than ‘healthcare’, in the opening post.)

In the context of this debate, this is the most Kenmoria quote out there (and I mean that in the best of possible ways)

User avatar
Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 15315
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Thu May 21, 2020 2:51 pm

Auralia wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:Ooc: if you feel I abused my position, you are absolutely welcome to file a report. However, since you and I both know that members of gensec are allowed to play the game as players, I doubt you'll get anywhere. Not a bad way to subtly cast aspersions on my character, but not a very effective argument. Par for the course.

Spite is objectively a bad reason to support a proposal and toxic to a game centred around collaborative authorship of legislation. It's even worse when it comes from a player in a position of authority and who serves as an example to others. Whether it technically violates a rule is irrelevant.

But of course, this can all be disregarded because of my stance on non-compliance, my misdeeds from six years ago, etc. So please, carry on.


Ooc: if you can note any abuse of power based on my political position as a player, I will take it under serious considerstion. Until then, this is a bad attempt at smearing.
Last edited by Separatist Peoples on Thu May 21, 2020 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Separatist Peoples should RESIGN!

User avatar
Imperium Anglorum
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9698
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Thu May 21, 2020 3:00 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:the sinister intent behind it.

Ooo ooo!

Image

SiniSTer!

If you want me to take these absurd complaints in any serious way, please at least accuse me of doing things in Discord screenshots that actually contain my user account.

Author: 1 SC and 36 GA resolutions
Maintainer: GA Passed Resolutions
Developer: Communiqué and InfoEurope
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Marxist Germany
Minister
 
Posts: 2049
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Corporate Bordello

Postby Marxist Germany » Thu May 21, 2020 3:03 pm

"I am glad to see how much backlash this proposal has received. I've also enjoyed using copies of this as toilet paper for the past few days."
Country represents RL views mostly. Not Marxist anymore.
Author of GA#461, GA#470, GA#477, GA#481, GA#486 (co-author), and SC#295

Ex-delegate of The United Federations; citizen and ex-Senior Senator of 10000 Islands | Gaming User#0721(Discord)
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Political Compass
Pro:Laissez-faire, Cultural Nationalism, Guns, Free speech, Christianity, United Ireland.
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The New California Republic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28715
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Thu May 21, 2020 3:09 pm

Marxist Germany wrote:"I am glad to see how much backlash this proposal has received. I've also enjoyed using copies of this as toilet paper for the past few days."

I wouldn't call some predictable griping by the usual suspects "backlash", but whatever.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Astrobolt
Attaché
 
Posts: 79
Founded: Jul 30, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Astrobolt » Thu May 21, 2020 3:12 pm

OOC: I think we would all appreciate it if the criticisms of the proposal were about the actual text of the proposal rather than implying some GenSec conspiracy or using an ad hominem fallacy.
Chief of WA Mission: Mr. Reede Tappe
In the WA IC, despite not being in it OOC.
W.I.P

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2574
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Thu May 21, 2020 3:29 pm

Astrobolt wrote:OOC: I think we would all appreciate it if the criticisms of the proposal were about the actual text of the proposal rather than implying some GenSec conspiracy or using an ad hominem fallacy.

OOC: I agree we should lay off Sep. Having said that, I think it's still reasonable to point out the questionable motives behind this resolution.

User avatar
Sierra Lyricalia
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 3705
Founded: Nov 29, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Thu May 21, 2020 4:11 pm

OOC:

file:facepalm.gif

This should be completely irrelevant, since all Onion references are long since removed, but I'll clarify for those who are unable to understand satire:

The "Abortionplex" article which I translated into a JOKE GA resolution draft last year is very specifically making fun of the particularly noxious brand of American conservative media that tries to rile up hate for anything (and anyone) abortion-related by portraying women who seek abortions as vapid fucking sluts out for a monstrous brand of sexual perversion.

If you don't portray women in this fashion, then it's not aimed at you. If you take offense at this particular satire, then it says a lot more about you than it does about the pro-choice (excuse me, babykiller) side. If all you're concerned about is the fact that the pro-choice side doesn't see fetuses as persons (or, if they do, they are still willing to put the liberty of a pregnant person above the alleged fetal person's right to life), then none of this "abortionplex" business should have any bearing on your feelings whatsoever.

ANYWAY, very little of the last like ten (edit: more like 15, actually) full pages of this thread has been more than tangentially relevant to the actual draft at hand. Notamod­®, but I would love to have a real discussion about the merits here.
Last edited by Sierra Lyricalia on Thu May 21, 2020 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Principal-Agent, Anarchy; Squadron Admiral, The Red Fleet
The Semi-Honorable Leonid Berkman Pavonis
Author: 354 GA / Issues 436, 451, 724
Ambassador Pro Tem
Tech Level: Complicated (or not: 7/0/6 i.e. 12) / RP Details
.
Jerk, Ideological Deviant, MT Army stooge, & "red [who] do[es]n't read" (various)
.
Illustrious Bum #279


User avatar
Stellonia
Minister
 
Posts: 2160
Founded: Mar 29, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Stellonia » Thu May 21, 2020 5:35 pm

Sierra Lyricalia wrote:Notamod­®, but I would love to have a real discussion about the merits here.

That would require the proposal to have merits in the first place.

User avatar
Astrobolt
Attaché
 
Posts: 79
Founded: Jul 30, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Astrobolt » Thu May 21, 2020 5:37 pm

Stellonia wrote:
Sierra Lyricalia wrote:Notamod­®, but I would love to have a real discussion about the merits here.

That would require the proposal to have merits in the first place.


OOC: Would love to know the specific issues in the proposal.
Chief of WA Mission: Mr. Reede Tappe
In the WA IC, despite not being in it OOC.
W.I.P

User avatar
Sierra Lyricalia
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 3705
Founded: Nov 29, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Thu May 21, 2020 5:38 pm

Stellonia wrote:
Sierra Lyricalia wrote:Notamod­®, but I would love to have a real discussion about the merits here.

That would require the proposal to have merits in the first place.


OOC: This kind of exclusively rhetorical (and aggressive, to boot) comment is unhelpful.
Principal-Agent, Anarchy; Squadron Admiral, The Red Fleet
The Semi-Honorable Leonid Berkman Pavonis
Author: 354 GA / Issues 436, 451, 724
Ambassador Pro Tem
Tech Level: Complicated (or not: 7/0/6 i.e. 12) / RP Details
.
Jerk, Ideological Deviant, MT Army stooge, & "red [who] do[es]n't read" (various)
.
Illustrious Bum #279


User avatar
Stellonia
Minister
 
Posts: 2160
Founded: Mar 29, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Stellonia » Thu May 21, 2020 5:40 pm

Astrobolt wrote:
Stellonia wrote:That would require the proposal to have merits in the first place.

OOC: Would love to know the specific issues in the proposal.

OOC: Nations should not be compelled to legalize abortion, let alone pay for it. For me, and for many others, that is a sufficient reason to oppose this proposal.

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