[PASSED] Liberate Aurelia

[Greater vakolicci haven]

It's a dead region. Dead regions get refounded. It is better for dead regions to get refounded rather than wasting the name. Why do we want to liberate this?

[Boda]

That leaves us vulnerable to raids. Which is why we instated the password to begin with

You don't know what raider unity is, do you? Also, the other rebuttal has been said before soI won't repeat it.

[Refuge Isle]

Then remove the password if you're really for this "new life."

That leaves us vulnerable to raids. Which is why we instated the password to begin with

I suppose you did raid it once already.

[Christus Imperat]

"Liberation" is nice sounding word for the imperialism of the irrelevant. Should a member of a small region take leadership when its other members go silent, it is not the job of the security council to annex that small region.

This is hegemony, this is empire with nice words, and it is not voluntary. When the only voice of a group tells you to leave them alone, you leave them alone.

As it stands, Christus Imperat opposes the forceful annexation of Aurelia by the security council, unless The Viceroyalty of Kaidokrai, Nord-Norden, or Aurelia say otherwise.

It's a dead region. Dead regions get refounded. It is better for dead regions to get refounded rather than wasting the name. Why do we want to liberate this?

Exactly. Stop wasting the lives of the citizens to control people. That is not the role of Nationstates Uniting.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

"Liberation" is nice sounding word for the imperialism of the irrelevant. Should a member of a small region take leadership when its other members go silent, it is not the job of the security council to annex that small region.

This is hegemony, this is empire with nice words, and it is not voluntary. When the only voice of a group tells you to leave them alone, you leave them alone.

As it stands, Christus Imperat opposes the forceful annexation of Aurelia by the security council, unless The Viceroyalty of Kaidokrai, Nord-Norden, or Aurelia say otherwise.

It's a dead region. Dead regions get refounded. It is better for dead regions to get refounded rather than wasting the name. Why do we want to liberate this?

Exactly. Stop wasting the lives of the citizens to control people. That is not the role of Nationstates Uniting.

I think 'stop wasting our time' is a better summary.

[Christus Imperat]

This conversation is where our true values are determined. I don't mind the time spent. I mind the deception.

This is not only a waste of time, it is a waste of the resources of the Members of the World Assembly and their governments. Taxes are privations of the resources of our people. Let's not waste the sweat of our people on conquering the unwilling.

This "Liberation" is a hegemonic conquest of an independent region. Leave them alone, Kuriko. Leave them alone, yes men.

[Xoriet]

This conversation is where our true values are determined. I don't mind the time spent. I mind the deception.

This is not only a waste of time, it is a waste of the resources of the Members of the World Assembly and their governments. Taxes are privations of the resources of our people. Let's not waste the sweat of our people on conquering the unwilling.

This "Liberation" is a hegemonic conquest of an independent region. Leave them alone, Kuriko. Leave them alone, yes men.

It's literally taking a region away from raiders attempting to refound it.

[Christus Imperat]

This conversation is where our true values are determined. I don't mind the time spent. I mind the deception.

This is not only a waste of time, it is a waste of the resources of the Members of the World Assembly and their governments. Taxes are privations of the resources of our people. Let's not waste the sweat of our people on conquering the unwilling.

This "Liberation" is a hegemonic conquest of an independent region. Leave them alone, Kuriko. Leave them alone, yes men.

It's literally taking a region away from raiders attempting to refound it.

In so doing, we become conquerors derailing an attempt for previous raiders to found a regional government.

If the original locals won't organize it, let the new locals organize it.

[Concrete Slab]

You can complain and whine all you want, this is still going to pass by an overwhelming margin.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Memories are long when it comes to a guy (hi Nephmir) who declared war on half the game and promised to purge their entire populace into TRR to "cleanse" them of "corruption"~

And that's the reason why TWP has voted for this Liberation. Nice to stick it in even a small way to Auralia and Nephmir. The West has a long memory.

[Christus Imperat]

You can complain and whine all you want, this is still going to pass by an overwhelming margin.

Sure you'll win. That doesn't make you right. Is a Centrist saying Might makes Right? That's what I'd get accused of.

Memories are long when it comes to a guy (hi Nephmir) who declared war on half the game and promised to purge their entire populace into TRR to "cleanse" them of "corruption"~

And that's the reason why TWP has voted for this Liberation. Nice to stick it in even a small way to Auralia and Nephmir. The West has a long memory.

Now that makes sense. I lack such a memory. Thank you for letting me know. Unless there is more information, I'd rather not have my nation's hands bloodied.

[A Bloodred Moon]

You can complain and whine all you want, this is still going to pass by an overwhelming margin.

Not that it matters. The region will remain a waste of the name and region space, with perhaps one or two defender sleepers and perhaps a single perceived "native" once it is liberated. The only ones that gain from this are the defenders, who can pretend they saved anything worthwhile. If anything, it is rather embarrassing that this region had been occupied for... what was it, 238 days?

[Lord Dominator]

Don't care about the actual Liberation, Nephmir can burn for all I care.

I do however remain confuzzled that our standard for native apparently includes someone lists their nations that were in-region, despite neither having been in-region for at least three years or so. There certainly hasn't been a password to prevent entry until recently, all the other raids in the regional history look like tags.

[Boda]

Don't care about the actual Liberation, Nephmir can burn for all I care.

Not to mention other things about Auralia. Like it literally raided aurelia because it had a similar name to it. Just What?

[Christus Imperat]

Don't care about the actual Liberation, Nephmir can burn for all I care.

Not to mention other things about Auralia. Like it literally raided aurelia because it had a similar name to it. Just What?

Hate to ignore people, but what justification is there to the liberation itself? It seems a conquest with a flattering euphemism.

[Boda]

Hate to ignore people, but what justification is there to the liberation itself? It seems a conquest with a flattering euphemism.

To be honest it's mostly for smug and petty satisfaction than others. Auralia has always been infamous on NS and i cannot disagree
witH That as Auralia has also rubbed me the wrong way. Kinda glad The DEmocratika is planning a coup on it ngl.

[Nord-Norden]

Hate to ignore people, but what justification is there to the liberation itself? It seems a conquest with a flattering euphemism.

To be honest it's mostly for smug and petty satisfaction than others. Auralia has always been infamous on NS and i cannot disagree
witH That as Auralia has also rubbed me the wrong way. Kinda glad The DEmocratika is planning a coup on it ngl.

And truth reveals itself. This is and always was a petty thing. One group of raiders, calling themselves Defenders, coming after a small band of honest to god reinvigorators. This was a dead region, it will not change after this "Liberation" but it might if we get to try.

[Lord Dominator]

To be honest it's mostly for smug and petty satisfaction than others. Auralia has always been infamous on NS and i cannot disagree
witH That as Auralia has also rubbed me the wrong way. Kinda glad The DEmocratika is planning a coup on it ngl.

And truth reveals itself. This is and always was a petty thing. One group of raiders, calling themselves Defenders, coming after a small band of honest do god reinvigorators. This was a dead region, it will not change after this "Liberation" but it might if we get to try.

'XKI is raider' wasn't the hot take I was expecting today.

[Boda]

And truth reveals itself. This is and always was a petty thing. One group of raiders, calling themselves Defenders, coming after a small band of honest do god reinvigorators. This was a dead region, it will not change after this "Liberation" but it might if we get to try.

All you did was trophize the region as a result of defender contact. What changes do you even plan to make for aurelia if you refound it?

[Nord-Norden]

And truth reveals itself. This is and always was a petty thing. One group of raiders, calling themselves Defenders, coming after a small band of honest do god reinvigorators. This was a dead region, it will not change after this "Liberation" but it might if we get to try.

All you did was trophize the region as a result of defender contact. What changes do you even plan to make for aurelia if you refound it?

I defended the region from attack.

I want it to become an open region with its own future decided by whomever decides to join up. Open to everyone, and through its founder, immune to invasion.

[Roavin]

I do however remain confuzzled that our standard for native apparently includes someone lists their nations that were in-region, despite neither having been in-region for at least three years or so.

See:

The argument of other raiders that as soon as a nation CTEs it has less right to a region than an imperialist group of raiders sniffing around would again be very convenient to those trying to suggest it, but is a nonsense. Sjal actually left the region as they had another nation there and only wanted to RP as one of them, but the region also had a temporary policy of ejecting people as soon as they became inactive for a while. The suggestion that either of those things rescinds any right they have as natives of the region is nonsense.

[Adriatican]

Put simply, the current regional administration violated the tradition of invitation that so many have found their regional home through. Uninvited, aggressive, and obviously unwanted by the remaining inhabitants of the region, it is the duty of the Security Council to liberate this region, and re-affirm the strong precedence that regions may be run as active, inactive, full, or empty as their inhabitants would like, outside observers having no right to barge into such and decide to change it, with no invitation to do so; failure of this proposal will weaken nearly all future liberation requests, as the SC, through its rejection of this bill will be stating to the world, that any region may be taken over by outsiders, no matter the conditions, so long as those outsiders feign belief that they can do better.

I urge my fellow Member Nations to vote FOR the Proposal.

[Lord Dominator]

I do however remain confuzzled that our standard for native apparently includes someone lists their nations that were in-region, despite neither having been in-region for at least three years or so.

See:

The argument of other raiders that as soon as a nation CTEs it has less right to a region than an imperialist group of raiders sniffing around would again be very convenient to those trying to suggest it, but is a nonsense. Sjal actually left the region as they had another nation there and only wanted to RP as one of them, but the region also had a temporary policy of ejecting people as soon as they became inactive for a while. The suggestion that either of those things rescinds any right they have as natives of the region is nonsense.

I don't claim that Auralia the region has any claim whatsoever, I reject the notion that someone who has been voluntarily out of the region for the past three years qualifies as a native for the purposes of native support.

Liberate away for all I care, but the definition of native seems to be ridiculously expansive.

Edit: blah blah blah, I think we're working on different definitionso of natives here and continued discussion on the existing information would be mutual bashing of heads into walls.

[Murden]

The region was left in a bereft state and all but abandoned. Why should we care about its vaunted history and community when no one native stepped up to the plate to actually do anything to preserve it? I think the support for liberation is an example of animosity towards raiders/conquerors which is unfairly misplaced. The new owners hardly invaded a bustling region, but an empty one. They're utilizing an asset that would otherwise continue to gather moss. I do not support this proposal.

[Nrevyw]

The region was left in a bereft state and all but abandoned. Why should we care about its vaunted history and community when no one native stepped up to the plate to actually do anything to preserve it? I think the support for liberation is an example of animosity towards raiders/conquerors which is unfairly misplaced. The new owners hardly invaded a bustling region, but an empty one. They're utilizing an asset that would otherwise continue to gather moss. I do not support this proposal.

Why does that give them right to take it over? This argument is so flawed on so many levels it's hard to argue against it.