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[DEFEATED] Condemn the Land of Kings and Emperors

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.

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Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20769
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Wallenburg » Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:13 pm

RiderSyl wrote:
Jocospor wrote:
OOC: Don't take it to heart, Consular, particularly coming from this player.


"particularly coming from this player"? Lol what the fuck.

It's Jocospor, their understanding of anything about NS is...finite.
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Catsfern
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 425
Founded: Mar 09, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Catsfern » Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:35 pm

Am I the only one noticing that consular hasn’t said anything in a while, I wonder why hmmmmmm
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Lord Dominator
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5969
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:50 pm

Catsfern wrote:Am I the only one noticing that consular hasn’t said anything in a while, I wonder why hmmmmmm

Why would he need to (aside from your 'a while' being a day, tops)?
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Consular
Minister
 
Posts: 3026
Founded: Apr 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Consular » Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:36 pm

Catsfern wrote:
Consular wrote:Should add -- I'm not saying this was my plan all along or anything like that. I'm not that machiavellian. It would have been great if this passed. But frankly I thought that was always fairly unlikely -- and I wanted to push the limits of what we could get away with. Pushed too hard. GG gents. I hope this was an interesting drama for everyone involved and the spectators.


I don’t really think you should be using a serious institution like the W.A. For “fun”

This is a game. I feel like some of you forget that. The only reason I do anything here is for fun.

I'd probably do it again.

RiderSyl wrote:Own up to it, maybe.

Have I not?

I wanted to see just how much bullshit we could get away with. The answer was "not that much" -- which was unfortunate but also very interesting.

You'd be surprised by the amount of individual nations who, far from getting swept up in the tide of upset feelings, don't care at all and still voted for.

The faux outrage over one faked image is fascinating. I've faked entire logs before with less fallout.

Already congratulated the other side on winning. Some rather salty winners, gotta say.

Some of you need to detach yourselves a little and relax.

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Isaris
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 177
Founded: Jul 18, 2009
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Isaris » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:07 pm

Consular wrote:
Catsfern wrote:
I don’t really think you should be using a serious institution like the W.A. For “fun”

This is a game. I feel like some of you forget that. The only reason I do anything here is for fun.

I'd probably do it again.

RiderSyl wrote:Own up to it, maybe.

Have I not?

I wanted to see just how much bullshit we could get away with. The answer was "not that much" -- which was unfortunate but also very interesting.

You'd be surprised by the amount of individual nations who, far from getting swept up in the tide of upset feelings, don't care at all and still voted for.

The faux outrage over one faked image is fascinating. I've faked entire logs before with less fallout.

Already congratulated the other side on winning. Some rather salty winners, gotta say.

Some of you need to detach yourselves a little and relax.

This whole shpeel here is exactly why you should be condemned and why mods blocking such proposals because of "tit for tat" rule should be ashamed of themselves. It's not tit for tat when your condemnation of LKE failed. It's not tit for tat when you falsified evidence to frame a region. You are a criminal as far as I'm concerned.

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Eumaeus
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 173
Founded: Jan 27, 2018
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Eumaeus » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:50 pm

Isaris wrote:This whole shpeel here is exactly why you should be condemned and why mods blocking such proposals because of "tit for tat" rule should be ashamed of themselves. It's not tit for tat when your condemnation of LKE failed. It's not tit for tat when you falsified evidence to frame a region. You are a criminal as far as I'm concerned.

From the Compendium of Mod Rulings:
Proposals which are solely 'tit-for-tat' proposals (ie Condemns Nation X for Condemning Nation Y) will be deleted. However, if they have other substance to them besides the 'tit-for-tat' argument, they are unlikely to be deleted...

All anyone has to do is find something else to add to their Condemnation. So far there are three authors drafting proposals on the forum, and three authors who submitted proposals without drafting, and only one of them has indicated that they are willing to research additional arguments. All any of them needs to do is find an additional substantive reason to condemn him and the tit-for-tat rule no longer applies.
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Lord Dominator
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5969
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:51 pm

Isaris wrote:why mods blocking such proposals because of "tit for tat" rule should be ashamed of themselves.

Lmao
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Catsfern
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 425
Founded: Mar 09, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Catsfern » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:58 pm

Any effort to condemn should be based on the fact consular falsified evidence to move forward a condemnation, additional research should be done and it should be as impersonal and dispassionate as possible simply stick to the facts of what they did and that it was wrong.
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RiderSyl
Senator
 
Posts: 4878
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Mother Knows Best State

Postby RiderSyl » Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:10 pm

Consular wrote:
RiderSyl wrote:Own up to it, maybe.

Have I not?

Nope, you haven't. This "just a prank bro" bullshit is a guide on how not to take responsibility for a mistake.

Consular wrote:I wanted to see just how much bullshit we could get away with. The answer was "not that much" -- which was unfortunate but also very interesting.

Right. Looking forward to your essay.

Consular wrote:You'd be surprised by the amount of individual nations who, far from getting swept up in the tide of upset feelings, don't care at all and still voted for.

No, I wouldn't be surprised, because The Lemming Effect is a well-known, time-tested phenomena. Using The Lemming Effect to act like the people that paid attention are just displaying "upset feelings" is very disingenuous. But hey, maybe you making that disingenuous argument is just another social experiment!

Consular wrote:The faux outrage over one faked image is fascinating. I've faked entire logs before with less fallout.

...you did it in a mass WA telegram this time. Of course there's more fallout. D'oh.

Consular wrote:Some of you need to detach yourselves a little and relax.

"Just a prank, bro, chillllll"
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Land of the Nobles
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: May 06, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Land of the Nobles » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:18 pm

Consular has poisoned the well so to speak. We have Direct proof of collusion, direct proof of his lies And direct proof he is abusing his powers. In real life this is an invitation to war.

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Isaris
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 177
Founded: Jul 18, 2009
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Isaris » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:52 pm

Eumaeus wrote:
Isaris wrote:This whole shpeel here is exactly why you should be condemned and why mods blocking such proposals because of "tit for tat" rule should be ashamed of themselves. It's not tit for tat when your condemnation of LKE failed. It's not tit for tat when you falsified evidence to frame a region. You are a criminal as far as I'm concerned.

From the Compendium of Mod Rulings:
Proposals which are solely 'tit-for-tat' proposals (ie Condemns Nation X for Condemning Nation Y) will be deleted. However, if they have other substance to them besides the 'tit-for-tat' argument, they are unlikely to be deleted...

All anyone has to do is find something else to add to their Condemnation. So far there are three authors drafting proposals on the forum, and three authors who submitted proposals without drafting, and only one of them has indicated that they are willing to research additional arguments. All any of them needs to do is find an additional substantive reason to condemn him and the tit-for-tat rule no longer applies.

Except Rowan's proposal is not about the attempt to condemn LKE itself, it is about the manner in which that was done and that's clear to anyone with basic reading comprehension? If lying to the world in order to use this institution as a tool of personal grievance isn't condemnable, then what is?

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Jocospor
Diplomat
 
Posts: 911
Founded: Nov 24, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Jocospor » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:02 am

Wallenburg wrote:
RiderSyl wrote:
"particularly coming from this player"? Lol what the fuck.

It's Jocospor, their understanding of anything about NS is...finite.

OOC:

Wallenburg - Finite...is a relatively polite choice, I guess. :hug:
Rider - *shrugs* In the interactions I've had with you, you do get a little bit worked up over these things. While I certainly believe Consular deserves reprimanding - IC reprimanding, that is - I don't think he needs your quasi-immature OOC wallowing:
RiderSyl wrote:
Consular wrote:Have I not?

Nope, you haven't. This "just a prank bro" bullshit is a guide on how not to take responsibility for a mistake.

Consular wrote:I wanted to see just how much bullshit we could get away with. The answer was "not that much" -- which was unfortunate but also very interesting.

Right. Looking forward to your essay.

Consular wrote:You'd be surprised by the amount of individual nations who, far from getting swept up in the tide of upset feelings, don't care at all and still voted for.

No, I wouldn't be surprised, because The Lemming Effect is a well-known, time-tested phenomena. Using The Lemming Effect to act like the people that paid attention are just displaying "upset feelings" is very disingenuous. But hey, maybe you making that disingenuous argument is just another social experiment!

Consular wrote:The faux outrage over one faked image is fascinating. I've faked entire logs before with less fallout.

...you did it in a mass WA telegram this time. Of course there's more fallout. D'oh.

Consular wrote:Some of you need to detach yourselves a little and relax.

"Just a prank, bro, chillllll"
HAIL THE CONFEDERATION!
CONFEDERATION OF CORRUPT DICTATORS | IMPERIAL OFFICES
JOCOSPOR | CENTRAL IMPERIAL DIREKTORATE


The Shadow Cult is rising...

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Satuga
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1652
Founded: Mar 27, 2019
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Satuga » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:04 am

Blueflarst wrote:
As a monarchy i have less corruption than other nations like my friend republic Furbish islands


Whilst your nation may not have corruption currently, the simple fact that you are a monarchy means that it only takes one royal member to completely change a nation, without a delicate amount of checks and balances a single person would have more than enough power to completely destroy a nation.
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(Image)


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Eumaeus
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 173
Founded: Jan 27, 2018
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Eumaeus » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:15 am

Isaris wrote:
Eumaeus wrote:From the Compendium of Mod Rulings:

All anyone has to do is find something else to add to their Condemnation. So far there are three authors drafting proposals on the forum, and three authors who submitted proposals without drafting, and only one of them has indicated that they are willing to research additional arguments. All any of them needs to do is find an additional substantive reason to condemn him and the tit-for-tat rule no longer applies.

Except Rowan's proposal is not about the attempt to condemn LKE itself, it is about the manner in which that was done and that's clear to anyone with basic reading comprehension? If lying to the world in order to use this institution as a tool of personal grievance isn't condemnable, then what is?

I honestly don't know what to tell you. For whatever reason, moderation has decided to enforce the t4t rule strictly on this matter, and is including the false allegations and faked evidence in the official telegram campaign under it. Regardless of whether you agree with that, my advice still stands as the only way someone is going to get one of these proposals through. Maybe if Rowan tried drafting their proposal instead of submitting and withdrawing repeatedly a legal version of it would have been up by now.

As for your second question, I lay out my opinion of why Consular's recent actions do not, by themselves, amount to a condemnable offense here, though they would be perfect ancillary material.
\▼/We Are Not the NSA\▼/

Raiding HistorySecurity CouncilDear NativesTWP Raid

"You ask my honorable name? My name is Nohbdy:
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Lord Dominator
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5969
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:40 am

Land of the Nobles wrote:Consular has poisoned the well so to speak. We have Direct proof of collusion, direct proof of his lies And direct proof he is abusing his powers. In real life this is an invitation to war.

Agree on the lies part, but I'm confused who you think he was colluding with or what powers he was abusing?
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Lord Dominator
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5969
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:51 am

Isaris wrote:
Eumaeus wrote:From the Compendium of Mod Rulings:

All anyone has to do is find something else to add to their Condemnation. So far there are three authors drafting proposals on the forum, and three authors who submitted proposals without drafting, and only one of them has indicated that they are willing to research additional arguments. All any of them needs to do is find an additional substantive reason to condemn him and the tit-for-tat rule no longer applies.

Except Rowan's proposal is not about the attempt to condemn LKE itself, it is about the manner in which that was done and that's clear to anyone with basic reading comprehension? If lying to the world in order to use this institution as a tool of personal grievance isn't condemnable, then what is?

A lot of things actually. I do believe Onder semi-helpfully alluded to a number of such action elsewhere in this thread wherein Consular participated in or directed some of the invasions and such so cited in this former proposal.
Dee Vytherov-Skollvaldr | Forest | TBH Major and Council Member | WA Vizier | Ambassador to the WA

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Catsfern
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 425
Founded: Mar 09, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Catsfern » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:11 am

If I remember correctly Consular admitted to faking entire conversations if we can find proof tf that I could help with a condemnation effort
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Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5809
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:24 am

Time for another author to make a legitimate case for LKE’s condemnation.
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Old Hope
Diplomat
 
Posts: 875
Founded: Sep 21, 2014
Tyranny by Majority

Postby Old Hope » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:32 pm

Unibot III wrote:Time for another author to make a legitimate case for LKE’s condemnation.

This case was not legitimate, it contained a libelous accusation of OOC misconduct.

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Lord Dominator
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5969
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:43 pm

Old Hope wrote:
Unibot III wrote:Time for another author to make a legitimate case for LKE’s condemnation.

This case was not legitimate, it contained a libelous accusation of OOC misconduct.

Yes, hence why Unibot said someone else should make a legitimate case for one.
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Consular
Minister
 
Posts: 3026
Founded: Apr 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Consular » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:24 pm

RiderSyl wrote:
Consular wrote:Have I not?

Nope, you haven't.

Pretty sure I've conveyed that the screengrab was a mistake. But that's not an apology, and I guess that's why you're upset.

RiderSyl wrote:
Consular wrote:Some of you need to detach yourselves a little and relax.

"Just a prank, bro, chillllll"

Cry me a river, honestly Syl

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RiderSyl
Senator
 
Posts: 4878
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Mother Knows Best State

Postby RiderSyl » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:39 pm

Okay, I may hate what Consular did, but this is honestly funny:
Image
Last edited by RiderSyl on Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.
R.I.P. Dyakovo
Sylvia Montresor

Ashmoria
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Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20769
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Wallenburg » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:52 pm

Funny, but unwanted. Let the author fade into obscurity.
THERE IS NO WAR IN BA SING SE
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
Minister of World Assembly Affairs for The East Pacific

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Catsfern
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 425
Founded: Mar 09, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Catsfern » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:41 am

RiderSyl wrote:Okay, I may hate what Consular did, but this is honestly funny:


Food that’s what he gets no more works assembly for you
I use NS stats that applies to everyone no exceptions
CANNON INFO
WIP wiki here https://catsfern.fandom.com/wiki/Catsfern_WikiWIKI ALWAYS UPDATING!Most recent page: Map and States
ASK ME ANYTHING HERE https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?ns=1&f=23&t=472606
Catsfernian Newspaper! (new edition every week / edition 31 out now)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/15CywWf8K6aSGbr63zhtnrIHsl4Y3X-mLVO2xOiUemro/edit?usp=sharing

100 COPIES OF MY OWN NATIONS CARD! https://www.nationstates.net/page=deck/collection=240
Lore development https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=479785
Interacting With me? Read This. https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1304258

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