[PASSED] International Aero-Space Administration

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: No. The Star Trek line is "Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before." My line is non-gender specific. Besides, its a popular culture reference. Seems to fall under Fair Use. If it really bothers you that I used a pop culture reference, file a report. This kind of litigious nitpicking is absurd.

OOC: Who said I was bothered by it? I made it very clear that I supported the proposal. Aren't we encouraged to discuss legality issues during drafting rather than filing a Legality Challenge every time a clause might potentially be illegal if one squints hard enough?

GenSec will not review proposals still in their drafting stages, as player critique should be the first defense against an illegal proposal.

That said, if we now need to file Legality Challenges for the smallest of queries then I'd be more than happy to do that.

OOC: OSRS violations go to Moderation, not GenSec.

[Wallenburg]

OOC: Who said I was bothered by it? I made it very clear that I supported the proposal. Aren't we encouraged to discuss legality issues during drafting rather than filing a Legality Challenge every time a clause might potentially be illegal if one squints hard enough?

That said, if we now need to file Legality Challenges for the smallest of queries then I'd be more than happy to do that.

OOC: OSRS violations go to Moderation, not GenSec.

OOC: Sep, he's trying to help you.

[States of Glory WA Office]

OOC: Who said I was bothered by it? I made it very clear that I supported the proposal. Aren't we encouraged to discuss legality issues during drafting rather than filing a Legality Challenge every time a clause might potentially be illegal if one squints hard enough?

That said, if we now need to file Legality Challenges for the smallest of queries then I'd be more than happy to do that.

OOC: OSRS violations go to Moderation, not GenSec.

OOC: Wait, is Plagiarism an OSRS violation? I can't find anything on WA plagiarism in the Rules.

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: OSRS violations go to Moderation, not GenSec.

OOC: Wait, is Plagiarism an OSRS violation? I can't find anything on WA plagiarism in the Rules.

OOC: Plagiarism in general is a moderation issue. GenSec asks Moderation to deal with plagiarize proposals.

[States of Glory WA Office]

OOC: Wait, is Plagiarism an OSRS violation? I can't find anything on WA plagiarism in the Rules.

OOC: Plagiarism in general is a moderation issue. GenSec asks Moderation to deal with plagiarize proposals.

OOC: I see. I suppose that you learn something new everyday.

[Wrapper]

OOC: OSRS violations go to Moderation, not GenSec.

OOC: Wait, is Plagiarism an OSRS violation? I can't find anything on WA plagiarism in the Rules.

Why yes, yes it is. And in this case it is not. It's a short, well-known phrase, not a proposal copied from some other work, including work done by players on this site or from real-life laws and resolutions.

[Excidium Planetis]

"We have tweaked the wording slightly to make it clear that member states must do the liaising. After all, they are the governing authority, not private entities, and the government is responsible for ensuring compliance with international law."

"In that case, I repeat my earlier objection: This is excessive micromanagement by the WA. The proposal as written requires the governments of member states to liaise with two separate WA committees and other national governments to coordinate the flight plans of all private nonmilitary space launches which cross over into other nations' airspace." Blackbourne replies. "It would be like requiring governments to liaise with the WA and other national governments for every single non-military boat, no matter how small, which may cross into the territorial waters of another nation."

[Separatist Peoples]

"We have tweaked the wording slightly to make it clear that member states must do the liaising. After all, they are the governing authority, not private entities, and the government is responsible for ensuring compliance with international law."

"In that case, I repeat my earlier objection: This is excessive micromanagement by the WA. The proposal as written requires the governments of member states to liaise with two separate WA committees and other national governments to coordinate the flight plans of all private nonmilitary space launches which cross over into other nations' airspace." Blackbourne replies. "It would be like requiring governments to liaise with the WA and other national governments for every single non-military boat, no matter how small, which may cross into the territorial waters of another nation."

"Then vote against, mbassafor. If you truly believe that minor communication is a large bureaucratic effort, then you're being obstructive, and I have no further comment. Liaising is as easy or as hard as you make it."

[Excidium Planetis]

"Then vote against, mbassafor. If you truly believe that minor communication is a large bureaucratic effort, then you're being obstructive, and I have no further comment. Liaising is as easy or as hard as you make it."

"It does not matter how hard the liaising is, Ambassador." Blackbourne replies. "The difficult part is tracking every single nonmilitary launch and checking to see if it will cross international borders. That's millions of launches that my government alone will have to actively keep track of. That's simply not possible. I repeat my earlier analogy: It would be like requiring nations to liaise for every single yacht, cruise ship, and fishing boat that crossed into another nation's territory. Unless your nation is omniscient and knows where every boat is at all times, this is a monumental bureaucratic task.

"Truthfully, I had hoped that you had the best interests of spacefaring nations in heart when you wrote this. However, I must express Excidium Planetis' opposition. I cannot support this piece of legislation any more than I can support granting the WA power to regulate all cosmos travel. I may be drafting another resolution in opposition to this one."

[Separatist Peoples]

"Then vote against, mbassafor. If you truly believe that minor communication is a large bureaucratic effort, then you're being obstructive, and I have no further comment. Liaising is as easy or as hard as you make it."

"It does not matter how hard the liaising is, Ambassador." Blackbourne replies. "The difficult part is tracking every single nonmilitary launch and checking to see if it will cross international borders. That's millions of launches that my government alone will have to actively keep track of. That's simply not possible. I repeat my earlier analogy: It would be like requiring nations to liaise for every single yacht, cruise ship, and fishing boat that crossed into another nation's territory. Unless your nation is omniscient and knows where every boat is at all times, this is a monumental bureaucratic task.

"Truthfully, I had hoped that you had the best interests of spacefaring nations in heart when you wrote this. However, I must express Excidium Planetis' opposition. I cannot support this piece of legislation any more than I can support granting the WA power to regulate all cosmos travel. I may be drafting another resolution in opposition to this one."

"Considering you're only required to liaise with other nation's airspace, and not outerspace, its a much smaller task than you'd think. Unless you consider airspace to include outer space? None of this applies out of atmosphere."

[Excidium Planetis]

"Considering you're only required to liaise with other nation's airspace, and not outerspace, its a much smaller task than you'd think. Unless you consider airspace to include outer space? None of this applies out of atmosphere."

"That makes it no less difficult." Blackbourne replies. "In addition to launches originating from our territories that share space with other nations on the same planet, there is also the matter of all of our ships which land on foreign planets and launch from those planets."

[Godular]

"We are categorically opposed to this initiative, and the only information we will provide are the limits of our territory and a note that failure to self-identify upon entering said territorial boundaries will result in a rather sudden and confusing firestorm.

"A literal storm of fire.

"In space.

"Because we do that."

[Sierra Lyricalia]

"Considering you're only required to liaise with other nation's airspace, and not outerspace, its a much smaller task than you'd think. Unless you consider airspace to include outer space? None of this applies out of atmosphere."

"That makes it no less difficult." Blackbourne replies. "In addition to launches originating from our territories that share space with other nations on the same planet, there is also the matter of all of our ships which land on foreign planets and launch from those planets."

"Ambassador Blackbourne, if there really are that many launches, they're already such a dire navigation hazard that they couldn't all be conducted without some traffic control or flight plan filing service anyway. All you'd need to do to be in compliance is set up an automated multilateral forwarding system, so any filed flight plan is available to the relevant national aerospace traffic controllers. Nothing here says the liaisons must meet personally or have conference calls or any massive red tape like that. Weeks to a couple of months of network and communications contracting is all it should take."

[Separatist Peoples]

"We are categorically opposed to this initiative, and the only information we will provide are the limits of our territory and a note that failure to self-identify upon entering said territorial boundaries will result in a rather sudden and confusing firestorm.

"A literal storm of fire.

"In space.

"Because we do that."

"Feel free to vote against."

[Imperium Anglorum]

"A literal storm of fire. In space.

A lightning storm in space!

[Godular]

"A literal storm of fire. In space.

A lightning storm in space!

"Which is normally just as likely, truth be told."

[Excidium Planetis]

"Ambassador Blackbourne, if there really are that many launches, they're already such a dire navigation hazard that they couldn't all be conducted without some traffic control or flight plan filing service anyway. All you'd need to do to be in compliance is set up an automated multilateral forwarding system, so any filed flight plan is available to the relevant national aerospace traffic controllers. Nothing here says the liaisons must meet personally or have conference calls or any massive red tape like that. Weeks to a couple of months of network and communications contracting is all it should take."

"I believe you underestimate the logistics of coordinating flights that are launching from planets sometimes several hundred light years from our center of government. Excidium Planetis relies heavily on individual starship crews and their navigation systems to prevent collisions." Blackbourne explains. "After all, some rogues head off to a foreign planet filled with backwards civilizations, it is not usually practical for us to establish communications with a foreign previously uncontacted race just to coordinate one starship launch on a planet with no starships."

OOC:
Excidium Planetis suffers from starships being as common as boats are today, but if the travel time for voyages were approximately what travel times were in the days of Magellan. The two combined makes keeping track of everyone virtually impossible.

[Separatist Peoples]

Ooc: why would you be expected to regulate individuals you describe as rouges who run off into the boonies? That's another unreasonable example of expecting compliance in an impossible situation.

[Wallenburg]

Ooc: why would you be expected to regulate individuals you describe as rouges who run off into the boonies? That's another unreasonable example of expecting compliance in an impossible situation.

Member states shall so liaise for all nonmilitary spacecraft launched from their suborbital space which might cross into either international or foreign national airspace or territory;

All means all. "It's difficult" has never been an excuse to not comply with resolutions.

[Separatist Peoples]

Ooc: why would you be expected to regulate individuals you describe as rouges who run off into the boonies? That's another unreasonable example of expecting compliance in an impossible situation.

Member states shall so liaise for all nonmilitary spacecraft launched from their suborbital space which might cross into either international or foreign national airspace or territory;

All means all. "It's difficult" has never been an excuse to not comply with resolutions.

OOC: Law does not punish people, organizations or individuals, for that which is not reasonably within their control or knowledge. EP has, here and on Discord, outlined a number of RP'd difficulties in his roleplay that lead me to believe that such situations are so far out of his nation's control or effective knowledge that they couldn't be said to be responsible for them. Even if they were, it would be logical to assume that the appropriate response here is to make reasonable attempts to bring those who flaunt international law to justice, and not to establish ATC infrastructure on every planet with more than one nation on it on the off chance that there are illegal elements ignoring international law. RNT ought apply here.

Its really the same way that we would address the current WA ban on rape under the Sexual Autonomy Guarantee. A nation isn't going to be non-compliant if a rapist succeeds at his crime, they would be non-compliant if they willfully took no attempt to bring justice to him. And they surely wouldn't be non-compliant if the nation was never sufficiently aware of the violation to have taken action in the first place. That's an unreasonable interpretation of the duties a nation has to fulfill it's obligations, and would likely render every developing nation in the WA in violation of something through no fault of their own.

The RNT tells me that I, as an author, don't need to consider unrealistic interpretations in unusual circumstances, and that nations and the WA will work out these situations in an effective manner. Otherwise, I'd be derailed by any Tom, Dick, or Harry that has an unusual nation.

[Aclion]

Ooc: why would you be expected to regulate individuals you describe as rouges who run off into the boonies? That's another unreasonable example of expecting compliance in an impossible situation.

Member states shall so liaise for all nonmilitary spacecraft launched from their suborbital space which might cross into either international or foreign national airspace or territory;

All means all. "It's difficult" has never been an excuse to not comply with resolutions.

Article 9 § Every WA Member State has the duty to carry out in good faith its obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law

Even a nation carrying out it's duties in good faith will still have people who choose to flout the law.

[Araraukar]

OOC: No. The Star Trek line is "Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before." My line is non-gender specific. Besides, its a popular culture reference. Seems to fall under Fair Use. If it really bothers you that I used a pop culture reference, file a report. This kind of litigious nitpicking is absurd.

OOC: Not that I think it's plagiarism, but ST:TNG actually has it as "no-one"...

[Imperium Anglorum]

OOC: Not that I think it's plagiarism, but ST:TNG actually has it as "no-one"...

TOS was the better show. TNG was crap television.

[Aclion]

OOC: Not that I think it's plagiarism, but ST:TNG actually has it as "no-one"...

TOS was the better show. TNG was crap television.

Fite me

[Araraukar]

TOS was the better show. TNG was crap television.

Fite me

OOC: I'll "fite" you too on that.

As for the proposal we're supposed to be debating, EP's objections about the launches seem legit. And also the tech assistance thing may run into issues with the patents that Auralia forced on everyone.