The Point.

[Gagatron]

In a recent topic, I'm sure some people noticed, I went on a tangent on how the theory of evolution eats away at your worldview leaving you with no meaning in your life. Some might think that this point of view is extreme, but I think it's accurate.

Let's assume for a moment, that all existence is an accident. Humans are on the Earth by accident, and the Earth rotates around the Sun by accident. Evolution is completely true, as most of you believe, as is the big bang. What purpose does this leave us with exactly? People are born, it seems, to do nothing in their life but make sure they don't die for long enough to procreate. Then the purpose of their existence is fulfilled. We live the rest of our life, procreating more, and then we die. Then our children do the same thing, then their children, and so on and so forth. No amount of evolution can defeat the fact that the universe will destroy itself just as it created itself, so no matter what we accomplish as a race, it will be erased. We will not be remembered.

But let's assume for a moment that God exists. He is the definition of good, and he loves humanity and the world that he created. Let's assume that he created the universe, and he designed every person individually. All of the sudden, the universe doesn't seem so pointless. Some people may not like it, but in this proposed reality, we have a purpose. It is probably to please God, who, remember, is good and loves us. We can accomplish things for him, and it will be remembered. We can become the best we can be, and it will not be erased from the history of the universe, for God, who created the universe, loves us. Now we have purpose.

I know there are many more options to consider, and that's why I created this topic. I wanted to discover how, in the new world of rationality, we find purpose in our lives. How does anything mean anything? How do we really make our lives worth something? I'm just trying to point out some realities I have seen, and I feel like people need to hear this, as it is very important.

Please be honest with your comments, but please no flaming or disrespect.

[Mike the Progressive]

Life, our planet, our existence is a mistake. There is no higher being, no divine answer or guidance for why we are here. We are creators of chance. It really is that simple. But people, as your pointed out, search for an answer, a meaning deeper than a cosmic 'error.' That being said, yes, it is probably good most people don't think of themselves as mere accidents, suicides would be wide scale, the world would stop and progress would end. It's actually depressing when one thinks about it.

[Hydesland]

Asking what purpose life has is fundamentally incoherent, unless you believe in some sort of deity. This is not inherently depressing, we just need to evaluate our use of language in this context. Some people take it to mean "life is cruel and unfair", which is an incorrect interpretation.

[Cannot think of a name]

Well, first I would object to the idea of everything being an accident. Rather it was the direct result of bodies interacting with each other in prescribed fashions that resulted in the universe as we know it.

And now...meaning...why exactly does that have to come from a supreme being or omnipotent imaginary friend? You are the end result (well, the end for you anyway) of a series of remarkable events, you have a limited time on this earth...why can't you give your own life meaning?

[Kalibarr]

I'd rather know the truth than accept an idea because it makes me feel good to have a purpose.

edit: whoopsies, mistype

[Mike the Progressive]

I'd rather know the truth that accept an idea because it makes me feel good to have a purpose.

Noble sentiment...it's bullshit though.

[New Manvir]

Or, rather than life being empty and pointless, it gives you total freedom as to what you want your life to be. The point (or meaning) of life is whatever the hell you want it to be.

Unless you're poor.

[Kalibarr]

I'd rather know the truth that accept an idea because it makes me feel good to have a purpose.

Noble sentiment...it's bullshit though.

I meant to put "than" where it says "that"

[Xarithis]

I know there are many more options to consider, and that's why I created this topic. I wanted to discover how, in the new world of rationality, we find purpose in our lives. How does anything mean anything? How do we really make our lives worth something?

Does it really matter whether or not we have a purpose set by a deity?

My purpose in life is whatever I choose.

[Zilam]

I choose a third option, there is a loving, caring God who created the earth and used evolution to shape the world we live in. I feel it makes him a little more connected to His creation than just snapping his fingers and everything appearing as it is now. That seems way too easy, and for some reason God likes to do things to hard way.

[Mike the Progressive]

Or, rather than life being empty and pointless, it gives you total freedom as to what you want your life to be. The point (or meaning) of life is whatever the hell you want it to be.

Or it gives you so much freedom, you just don't care, your indifferent. My existence to serve my fellow man? Why? Fuck them, like me, they are mere accidents of the universe, they, like me, could disappear at any time should our sun explode, our ozone layer collapses, aliens invade and sodomize us all. So why bother with an economy that helps poor people? Their pity, their dirtiness, their death serves no higher being or purpose. Neither does my apathy towards them.

[Hydesland]

It doesn't really matter, let's stop whining about it and play some black ops.

[Gagatron]

I choose a third option, there is a loving, caring God who created the earth and used evolution to shape the world we live in. I feel it makes him a little more connected to His creation than just snapping his fingers and everything appearing as it is now. That seems way too easy, and for some reason God likes to do things to hard way.

I believe that the Genesis account of creation can be reconciled with evolution, but that's a whole other story.

[Mike the Progressive]

It doesn't really matter, let's stop whining about it and play some black ops.

[Trotskylvania]

I fail to see how humans coming into existence as a result of natural processes somehow makes it all meaningless.

[Gagatron]

I fail to see how humans coming into existence as a result of natural processes somehow makes it all meaningless.

Because it's all accidental, mindless, and random. We're not here because we need to be, we're here because of a roll of the evolutionary dice.

That's basically what it all boils down to.

[Dakini]

In a recent topic, I'm sure some people noticed, I went on a tangent on how the theory of evolution eats away at your worldview leaving you with no meaning in your life. Some might think that this point of view is extreme, but I think it's accurate.

This assumes everyone starts from the same worldview.

Let's assume for a moment, that all existence is an accident arose naturally following physical laws. Humans are on the Earth by accident because we evolved from earlier life forms which formed as a result of some prebiotic chemistry, and the Earth rotates around the Sun by accident because it's gravitationally bound to the Sun. Evolution is completely true, as most of you believe, as is the big bang.

First I fix your science.

What purpose does this leave us with exactly? People are born, it seems, to do nothing in their life but make sure they don't die for long enough to procreate. Then the purpose of their existence is fulfilled. We live the rest of our life, procreating more, and then we die. Then our children do the same thing, then their children, and so on and so forth.

No innate purpose does not mean the same thing as no purpose. We can define our own purposes.

No amount of evolution can defeat the fact that the universe will destroy itself just as it created itself, so no matter what we accomplish as a race, it will be erased. We will not be remembered.

How would the universe destroy itself?

And don't be so vain to think we'll be remembered as long as the end of the universe, most of us won't be remembered eight generations from now. None of us are likely to be remembered when the Earth becomes uninhabitable due to the recession of the Sun's habitable zone (probably before then) and all traces of us will be wiped out when the Earth spirals into the Sun after the latter hits the red giant branch.

But let's assume for a moment that God exists. He is the definition of good, and he loves humanity and the world that he created. Let's assume that he created the universe, and he designed every person individually. All of the sudden, the universe doesn't seem so pointless. Some people may not like it, but in this proposed reality, we have a purpose. It is probably to please God, who, remember, is good and loves us. We can accomplish things for him, and it will be remembered. We can become the best we can be, and it will not be erased from the history of the universe, for God, who created the universe, loves us. Now we have purpose.

Where is the evidence of this god?

[Dakini]

I fail to see how humans coming into existence as a result of natural processes somehow makes it all meaningless.

Because it's all accidental, mindless, and random. We're not here because we need to be, we're here because of a roll of the evolutionary dice.

That's basically what it all boils down to.

Physics is not random. Chemistry is not random. Mutation is somewhat random, but even then, the individual mutations which survive is not always random.

[Dakini]

I choose a third option, there is a loving, caring God who created the earth and used evolution to shape the world we live in. I feel it makes him a little more connected to His creation than just snapping his fingers and everything appearing as it is now. That seems way too easy, and for some reason God likes to do things to hard way.

I believe that the Genesis account of creation can be reconciled with evolution, but that's a whole other story.

Which Genesis account of creation? There are two different versions that are entirely different.

[Gagatron]

Woah, okay, gimme some time to respond to all of that.

[New Manvir]

Or, rather than life being empty and pointless, it gives you total freedom as to what you want your life to be. The point (or meaning) of life is whatever the hell you want it to be.

Or it gives you so much freedom, you just don't care, your indifferent. My existence to serve my fellow man? Why? Fuck them, like me, they are mere accidents of the universe, they, like me, could disappear at any time should our sun explode, our ozone layer collapses, aliens invade and sodomize us all. So why bother with an economy that helps poor people? Their pity, their dirtiness, their death serves no higher being or purpose. Neither does my apathy towards them.

Sex, Drugs and Rock and Roll. The answers to all of life's questions.

[Mike the Progressive]

Or it gives you so much freedom, you just don't care, your indifferent. My existence to serve my fellow man? Why? Fuck them, like me, they are mere accidents of the universe, they, like me, could disappear at any time should our sun explode, our ozone layer collapses, aliens invade and sodomize us all. So why bother with an economy that helps poor people? Their pity, their dirtiness, their death serves no higher being or purpose. Neither does my apathy towards them.

Sex, Drugs and Rock and Roll. The answers to all of life's questions.

Sounds good to me.

[Gagatron]

This assumes everyone starts from the same worldview.

I'm sorry.

First I fix your science.

I didn't make a world of difference, the uuniverse is still an accident, because everything happened unpredictably.

No innate purpose does not mean the same thing as no purpose. We can define our own purposes.

Like I said, that's pointless, and it leads you in a horrible direction.

How would the universe destroy itself?

Reverse big bang, have you never heard of that? Either that or it over expands into being so scarce of large amounts of matter that there might as well be nothing.

Where is the evidence of this god?

The design of everything. It's so smart, yo. A mindless thing like nature can't design something.

[Dakini]

This assumes everyone starts from the same worldview.

I'm sorry.

You should be. Some of us don't start with the worldview that there has to be an innate purpose.

First I fix your science.

I didn't make a world of difference, the uuniverse is still an accident, because everything happened unpredictably.

No, it's not an accident. The current theories on the origin of the Big Bang do not involve "accident" as a cause. And if it's all unpredictable, we wouldn't be able to make simulations, but people can.

No innate purpose does not mean the same thing as no purpose. We can define our own purposes.

Like I said, that's pointless, and it leads you in a horrible direction.

How is it more pointless than looking for approval from a god whose existence you can't even confirm?

How would the universe destroy itself?

Reverse big bang, have you never heard of that? Either that or it over expands into being so scarce of large amounts of matter that there might as well be nothing.

I've heard of these things... the expansion one is more likely. But it won't exactly destroy itself, it would just become impossible to sustain life.

Where is the evidence of this god?

The design of everything. It's so smart, yo. A mindless thing like nature can't design something.

Evidence of design? Evidence of a loving god (as opposed to say, a fourth grade science student type god or an ant farm type god) as a designer?

[Xarithis]

How would the universe destroy itself?

There are several theories (Big Crunch, Heat Death, etc.). I like this paper.

Because it's all accidental, mindless, and random. We're not here because we need to be, we're here because of a roll of the evolutionary dice.

That's not really such a bad thing, is it?