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75 Years After Pearl Harbor: Japan's Resurgence

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Should Japan Allow Its Military to Fight in Foreign Wars?

Yes, they should allow their military to fight in wars
101
82%
No, Japan should not intervene in such conflicts
22
18%
 
Total votes : 123

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Dallingrad
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75 Years After Pearl Harbor: Japan's Resurgence

Postby Dallingrad » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:13 am

Seventy-five years ago, the Japanese Empire unleashed a devastating attack on the U.S. Navy in Pearl Harbor. The attack instigated the United States involvement in World War Two, and eventually the unconditional surrender of the Japanese.

After the Pacific Wars, Japan amended it's constitution to renounce Japan's right to maintain an armed force or participate in an active conflict (per the Treaty of San Francisco). Despite the amendment, there has been a resurgence of Japan's military prowess. As of now, the geopolitics of East Asia are shifting deadly close to Japan's jurisdiction. This includes disputes over the Senkaku and Kuril Islands with China and Russia respectively, and the evident threat of North Korea's nuclear arsenal. That said, it's clear that Japan's military resurgence stands to reason, and Japan will need to defend it's lands should conflict be imminent.

The United States has been lenient on Japan's military build up, but a full fledged military intervention on behalf of Japan seems unprecedented under the amendment. Japan has yet to intervene in an all-out conflict, such as the armed Coalition operation against the Islamic State/Daesh. We ask ourselves, should Japan be able to, on it's own initiative, enter and withdraw from conflicts and abolish the amendment preempting independent military action on Japan's behalf?
Last edited by Dallingrad on Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:35 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Insoboria
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Postby Insoboria » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:21 am

i believe they should be allowed to do so... they learned their lesson, even if we had to drop the bomb twice before they got the message :rofl:
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Allet Klar Chefs
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Postby Allet Klar Chefs » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:23 am

Dallingrad wrote:We ask ourselves, should Japan be able to, on it's own initiative, enter and withdraw from conflicts and abolish the amendment preempting independent military action on Japan's behalf?

Nah.

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Dallingrad
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Postby Dallingrad » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:28 am

Personally I believe that every sovereign nation has the right to have a military. Japan, likewise, is entitled to have its own military because the notion that the United States will indefinitely be held responsible for safeguarding Japan is neither practical nor realistic. However, if Japan were to be re-militarized immediately, it would heighten tensions that are already perilously high in the East Asia-categorical region and such a result would benefit no one. Thus the process would have to be gradual and slow. The re-militarization of Japan would additionally discern the terminus of the Defense Treaty between US and Japan.
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Teemant
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Postby Teemant » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:31 am

I think Japan should be able to do it on their own initiative and they probably will should such situation arise - who is going to deny them.
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Teemant
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Postby Teemant » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:32 am

Dallingrad wrote:Personally I believe that every sovereign nation has the right to have a military. Japan, likewise, is entitled to have its own military because the notion that the United States will indefinitely be held responsible for safeguarding Japan is neither practical nor realistic. However, if Japan were to be re-militarized immediately, it would heighten tensions that are already perilously high in the East Asia-categorical region and such a result would benefit no one. Thus the process would have to be gradual and slow. The re-militarization of Japan would additionally discern the terminus of the Defense Treaty between US and Japan.


Doesn't Japan already have a military? They spend over 40 billion dollars a year on it.
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Petrolheadia
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Postby Petrolheadia » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:35 am

Teemant wrote:
Dallingrad wrote:Personally I believe that every sovereign nation has the right to have a military. Japan, likewise, is entitled to have its own military because the notion that the United States will indefinitely be held responsible for safeguarding Japan is neither practical nor realistic. However, if Japan were to be re-militarized immediately, it would heighten tensions that are already perilously high in the East Asia-categorical region and such a result would benefit no one. Thus the process would have to be gradual and slow. The re-militarization of Japan would additionally discern the terminus of the Defense Treaty between US and Japan.


Doesn't Japan already have a military? They spend over 40 billion dollars a year on it.

Yeah,,it does. It's just called a "defensive force" for legal reasons.

And, after seeing how high nationalism and jingoism is in modern Japan, and how high it usually is, I think it's not time for militarization. Giving the current Japanese society a large military is like giving a boy a gun.
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Teemant
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Postby Teemant » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:37 am

Petrolheadia wrote:
Teemant wrote:
Doesn't Japan already have a military? They spend over 40 billion dollars a year on it.

Yeah,,it does. It's just called a "defensive force" for legal reasons.

And, after seeing how high nationalism and jingoism is in modern Japan, and how high it usually is, I think it's not time for militarization. Giving the current Japanese society a large military is like giving a boy a gun.


It's called a defensive force but it essentially is a military - doesn't matter how you call it.
Last edited by Teemant on Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Dallingrad
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Postby Dallingrad » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:39 am

So should Japan allow it's military to fight in foreign wars, such as the conflict in the Middle East?
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Dushan
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Postby Dushan » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:39 am

Dallingrad wrote:So should Japan allow it's military to fight in foreign wars, such as the conflict in the Middle East?


The question is more, why would they engage in such a folly?

I mean its not like China, South Korea and such have engaged there. North Korea did however in Syria to a little degree.
Last edited by Dushan on Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Teemant
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Postby Teemant » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:42 am

Dallingrad wrote:So should Japan allow it's military to fight in foreign wars, such as the conflict in the Middle East?


They should be able to make such decision but it doesn't mean that they should actually do it.
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Langor Empire
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Postby Langor Empire » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:43 am

Of course, and they should get a compensation for this 75 year long American occupation... "Hawaii prefecture" sounds good, don't you think?
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Divitaen
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Postby Divitaen » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:45 am

Article 9 of the Constitution is a humiliating imperialistic relic imposed by the US after World War II. I don't understand how anyone can believe Japan's legal system should be placed on a degrading lower-tier compared to the constitutions of every other nation. The clause should never have been in the Constitution in the first place and its high time they ditched it. Unfortunately, I don't think the Liberal Democrats have the seats to achieve that constitutional amendment but perhaps they could put it to a referendum or something like that.
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Teemant
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Postby Teemant » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:46 am

Langor Empire wrote:Of course, and they should get a compensation for this 75 year long American occupation... "Hawaii prefecture" sounds good, don't you think?


Occupation ended like 60 something years ago.
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Langor Empire
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Postby Langor Empire » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:47 am

Teemant wrote:
Langor Empire wrote:Of course, and they should get a compensation for this 75 year long American occupation... "Hawaii prefecture" sounds good, don't you think?


Occupation ended like 60 something years ago.

It won't end until the last American soldier leaves the islands
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Postby Maichuko » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:47 am

Dallingrad wrote:So should Japan allow it's military to fight in foreign wars, such as the conflict in the Middle East?

I think the Japanese are smart enough to stay Far away from that place when it comes to military conflicts.
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Divitaen
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Postby Divitaen » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:47 am

Langor Empire wrote:Of course, and they should get a compensation for this 75 year long American occupation... "Hawaii prefecture" sounds good, don't you think?


Yeah, and like, a whole lot of money, like an insane amount of money for Hiroshima, Nagasaki and the Tokyo fire-bombings.
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Postby Benuty » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:50 am

Teemant wrote:
Langor Empire wrote:Of course, and they should get a compensation for this 75 year long American occupation... "Hawaii prefecture" sounds good, don't you think?


Occupation ended like 60 something years ago.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Japan

For reference.
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Teemant
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Postby Teemant » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:50 am

Langor Empire wrote:
Teemant wrote:
Occupation ended like 60 something years ago.

It won't end until the last American soldier leaves the islands


I assume that they will leave when Japan goverment asks them to leave and as far as I know majority of the people in Japan are not against US presence.
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Benuty
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Postby Benuty » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:50 am

Divitaen wrote:
Langor Empire wrote:Of course, and they should get a compensation for this 75 year long American occupation... "Hawaii prefecture" sounds good, don't you think?


Yeah, and like, a whole lot of money, like an insane amount of money for Hiroshima, Nagasaki and the Tokyo fire-bombings.

If we aren't giving reperations to anyone here in the states because they may have had a slave as an ancestor why should we do it here?
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Benuty
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Postby Benuty » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:52 am

Langor Empire wrote:
Teemant wrote:
Occupation ended like 60 something years ago.

It won't end until the last American soldier leaves the islands

Debatable, and that is merely your opinion. We spend a lot on our defense budget. You would have more luck of Japan getting out of its economic malaise than for U.S troops to leave.
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Divitaen
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Postby Divitaen » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:53 am

Benuty wrote:
Divitaen wrote:
Yeah, and like, a whole lot of money, like an insane amount of money for Hiroshima, Nagasaki and the Tokyo fire-bombings.

If we aren't giving reperations to anyone here in the states because they may have had a slave as an ancestor why should we do it here?


Its not really mutually exclusive, I support reparations for slavery too, I just didn't raise it because it wasn't relevant to the thread.
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Postby Cymrea » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:54 am

Japan has every right to do whatever they choose within their nation. The constitutional amendment was voluntary and should they choose to re-amend it, that is securely within their sovereign rights.

Personally, I think having an ally with teeth in the region is quite helpful. With North Korea determined to realise its belligerent foreign policies, and China resolute in defending North Korea's self-determination - however dangerous for everyone within reach, and Russia's increasingly aggressive movements, the U.S. should be doing everything possible to support and encourage Japan's ability to defend itself and the region, and balance the scales of power there.
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Postby Tuthina » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:55 am

Divitaen wrote:Article 9 of the Constitution is a humiliating imperialistic relic imposed by the US after World War II. I don't understand how anyone can believe Japan's legal system should be placed on a degrading lower-tier compared to the constitutions of every other nation. The clause should never have been in the Constitution in the first place and its high time they ditched it. Unfortunately, I don't think the Liberal Democrats have the seats to achieve that constitutional amendment but perhaps they could put it to a referendum or something like that.

You would think that it might be a sign that repelling the Article 9 does not actually have majority support from the population. I guess NERVUN might be able to shed some light on the details, though.
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Postby Montchevre » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:55 am

Resurgence? Sure. Subsequent crash? Probably coming to a Japan near you pretty soon, considering they have 300% GDP debt and and aging population to boot.
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