On Celtic-Norse Relations (OOC, TWI, closed)

[Upper Norseland]

So, since I've been having discussions with both Prestatyn and Shanowinn, and since they have brought to my attention the potential for an alliance or confederation if Celtic and Norse states, I felt it would behoove us to have a more open forum, where each potential member of said alliance/confederation could voice their ideas, concerns, and comments, and where we could begin to form a cohesive framework for the establishment of what I hope will grow to be one of the Western Isles' foremost international entities. I'm very much excited to begin working with Stordavia, and hope that together we can all build a lasting relationship.

[Prestatyn]

I propose that the alliance be called The Confederation of the Ancestors or COA for short. The reason behind this is that both norse and celtic cultures place a heavy influence of ancestoral honour . Also I suggest that the alliance be a both eccomic and military one because of the violate nature of TWI

[Stordavia]

I agree with Prestatyn on the subject of an agreement.

[Upper Norseland]

I do like that name, Prestatyn, but I do feel it's a little misgiving. It seems to me that it implies that it's our Ancestors that are going to be the confederates. Now, I do agree that economic and political agreements are going to be important. However, militarily, the Kingdom is historically neutral as a whole. I would be very happy to provide significant discounts for mercenary services.

[Stordavia]

I do like that name, Prestatyn, but I do feel it's a little misgiving. It seems to me that it implies that it's our Ancestors that are going to be the confederates. Now, I do agree that economic and political agreements are going to be important. However, militarily, the Kingdom is historically neutral as a whole. I would be very happy to provide significant discounts for mercenary services.

Most nations in the Isles find Mercenaries to be rather ineffective these days.

[Upper Norseland]

Most nations in the Isles find Mercenaries to be rather ineffective these days.

Why's that?

[Prestatyn]

We could have a defensive pact where you aren't obligated to help unless one of the meMyers has war declared on them. And I'm ok with a name change

[Stordavia]

Most nations in the Isles find Mercenaries to be rather ineffective these days.

Why's that?

Because we are modernized.

The date corresponds with the one on our calendars.

Mercenaries went with the end of the Renaissance Era, they are simply not effective on the military front as men trained as one, with similar tactics and ideals, as well as loyalty to the cause.

I won't go into too many specifics, but the employment of mercenaries is heavily frowned upon in the modern day. Very few organizations practice the principle, but they are mostly limited to less developed nations.

[Upper Norseland]

snip

You seem to be under the impression that by "mercenary," I mean a soldier-of-fortune or employee of a for-profit corporation. Not so. I would refer you to my military factbooks, but they still require some refining. In the simplest sense, when I say "mercenary," imagine if Germany could literally just hire United States Navy SEALS for a specific mission, or for a period of time. Imagine a system by which a nation's military, and more specifically its special forces units, being modern, "professional," and highly effective, is designed specifically to facilitate the usage of its troops by third parties. I'm not talking about free companies and condottieri, here. More like a highly soecialized system of military contracting, completely outside the realm of "private enterprise." It just takes longer to say all that than to say "mercenary."

As for ideals and devotedness to the cause, I'd say those are highly ingrained in the society of the Kingdom as a whole. If a Norse warrior has given his word to an "employer," a foreign government or individual, he is therefore obligated to uphold said word on pain of dishonor, the utmost shame in Norse society. The usage of "mercenaries" is frowned upon, yes. However, a mercenary, as defined by the United Nations resolution 44/34, is "Motivated to take part [in the conflict] by the desire for personal gain, and is prompted by the promise and/or payment of significant material compensation." Norse "mercenaries" do not recieve significant material compensation for their "mercenary" activities. Does this sound more viable? If not, I do quite literally need to rebuild my entire nation from the ground up.

[Prestatyn]

No that makes a lot of sense it could only work in certain societies such as yours and there would probably be a law dictating that a warrior could not lend his sword to enemies of the state. Well because that's how you lose wars. I like this idea. It would government a very unique dynamic to our alliances reactions with each other. Because let's say I want to invade Doppler and I hire 2,000 of your finest warriors and use them for fodder your country would hate me. But it might be worth it to accomplish my goal.

[Stordavia]

I am inclined to disagree, my nation is brought about, not by religion or honorable ideals which have gone to be flawed in the information age. But by unity, and the knowledge that our people are stronger when we are ourselves.

If you truly valued honor of a warrior, then you would know, that a warrior cannot be honored when he isn't fighting for his own people, and instead being a puppet to those they should not be controlled by. A warrior cannot achieve honor, when they are not alongside their own people.

Never the less, feel free to operate by early 20th century and Soviet ideals of throwing lives away for the, "Higher," purpose of achieving a victory. I have no reason to stop you. Just leave my people out of your offensive conflicts that mean nothing to the Grand Federation of Stordavia.

[Prestatyn]

Ok so to get back on track of the goal of fostering and alliance we should probably wait until Shanowin gets back sometime on sunday.however should be going public about these talks in the RMB?

[Upper Norseland]

I have no issue with seeking out other nations with Celtic/Norse or even pre-Christian Germanic cultures and societies. If you would like to speak of these talks on the RMB, you are more than welcome. I would like to propose that there be a system of rotating headquarters, allowing each member state to have the opportunity to host the governing structure of the alliance.

[Stordavia]

I wouldn't suggest negotiating on the RMB, more like announcing our intentions.

We should continue to negotiate on this forum, and when the time is right, we go into the IC.


I agree on the rotating headquarters, but at what interval will it change?

[Upper Norseland]

I was thinking either two or five years, but I'm certainly not married to either of those intervals. Two years would allow us to represent each member nation more often, but would be a bit of a logistical hassle, whereas five years would ease the burden of having to move immediately after setting up an effective headquarters, while somewhat dampening the representative quality of rotating.

[Prestatyn]

I have two compromises either a three year rotating headquarters or we construct our alliance headquarters in the International District. I mean that is what it is there for. I'll make an RMB post announcing our intentions to form an alliance and post this thread link to let other nations know about it.

[Upper Norseland]

I counterpropose that we construct the central headquarters in the International district, but that we hold a sort of Alliance Council meeting every two or three years on a rotating schedule.

[Prestatyn]

I like this idea.

[Shanowinn]

I like the HQ in the ID idea--though if we have an HQ there, would we need to meet in the various countries? It seems to me that we could just meet in the ID...thoughts?

[Upper Norseland]

It's true that we wouldn't need to hold meetings in our member countries, but I'm thinking of NATO. The security council does not always meet in Belgium. I do believe that the Central Headquarters of the Alliance should have a place in the meeting schedule, but I still feel as if holding the meetings in the member nations would allow each of them to not only gain a greater sense of representation within the alliance, but also serve to facilitate a greater sense of unity as a whole, with cultural awareness and appreciation between member states increased through the meetings. By the way, glad to have you back, Shanowinn.

[Prestatyn]

What if instead of holding meetings we had a roating cultural festival that was held every year? I mean all our cultures had lots of feasts and festivals why not just add one more. And if our heads of states happened to have a meeting and discussed things cool, if not also cool.

[Stordavia]

What if instead of holding meetings we had a roating cultural festival that was held every year? I mean all our cultures had lots of feasts and festivals why not just add one more. And if our heads of states happened to have a meeting and discussed things cool, if not also cool.

This is a good idea. Though I also suggest we act like the League of TWI, where we have a constant meeting of sorts, therefore able to maintain an ongoing and uninterrupted communication. Where is the real question. I suggest rotating nations, because the I.D. isn't very well known for it's stability.

[Prestatyn]

What if instead of holding meetings we had a roating cultural festival that was held every year? I mean all our cultures had lots of feasts and festivals why not just add one more. And if our heads of states happened to have a meeting and discussed things cool, if not also cool.

This is a good idea. Though I also suggest we act like the League of TWI, where we have a constant meeting of sorts, therefore able to maintain an ongoing and uninterrupted communication. Where is the real question. I suggest rotating nations, because the I.D. isn't very well known for it's stability.

Don't you and Shawnowin share a border? what if we made a special ID but on your guy's border? I mean it would be a hassle for Upper Norseland and myself but if you just have dedicated representatives its not to bad.

[Shanowinn]

This is a good idea. Though I also suggest we act like the League of TWI, where we have a constant meeting of sorts, therefore able to maintain an ongoing and uninterrupted communication. Where is the real question. I suggest rotating nations, because the I.D. isn't very well known for it's stability.

Don't you and Shawnowin share a border? what if we made a special ID but on your guy's border? I mean it would be a hassle for Upper Norseland and myself but if you just have dedicated representatives its not to bad.

A festival type thing would be very cool I think. And hmm if the ID isn't too stable then perhaps something on the border as you mention could work so we are totally in charge of security. I think it'd be good to have the occasional official meeting, however often that goes on, and the festival in addition. Sometime during the time of the Festival there would probably still be a little time to talk but of course not as much or as seriously as at actual talks.

[Upper Norseland]

I'm not sure you guys want a bunch of festive Norsemen touring your country. There are going to be quite a few, uhm... 'incidents.'