UK Politics IV: Disraeli Gears

[Vassenor]

You arse, you almost got me then

there might have been riots

You laugh, but apparently all people could care about right after the vote was how it was going to affect Game of Thrones.

[Wolfmanne2]

My point being that Labour tends to identify itself as social democratic rather than socialist.

New or Old Labour ?

With Old Labour, the right tended to refer to themselves as social democrats and the left as socialists.

With New Labour, neither, apart from the occasional claim by politicians to be 'ethical socialists' in Fabian Society pamphlets (which no one other than cabinet Ministers cared about, so no need to worry about the right-wing media).

[Imperializt Russia]

Neoliberalism happened.

My point being that Labour tends to identify itself as social democratic rather than socialist.

It's all under the same tent.

[Imperializt Russia]

Neoliberalism happened.

The electorate happened*.

I didn't say Blairism, what set you off?

[Wolfmanne2]

The electorate happened*.

I didn't say Blairism, what set you off?

Well, we can go further and talk about how Thatcher used social policy to socially engineer an economic system that increased the rate of car and home ownership among the populace, thus bringing us a more economically liberal electorate. Social democracy therefore had to adapt, just as various ideologies had to adapt over the years. It didn't just disappear.

[Imperializt Russia]

I didn't say Blairism, what set you off?

Well, we can go further and talk about how Thatcher used social policy to socially engineer an economic system that increased the rate of car and home ownership among the populace, thus bringing us a more economically liberal electorate. Social democracy therefore had to adapt, just as various ideologies had to adapt over the years. It didn't just disappear.

Cars, maybe, but homes? I don't think so, not significantly.
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... using.html
It may have accelerated under her, and almost certainly did, but even when it peaked in 2001 it didn't even reach 70%

And look where it left us. It also fell between 2001 and 2011, across all of England and Wales, and in London it was 50/50.
Where the country was in 1971.

I don't know what "social renting" is, but that peaked under Thatcher, in 1981, at 31%

Yes, I am reading the key points and not reading the actual study, but it's midnight, what do you want from me.

[Souseiseki]

Neoliberalism happened.

The electorate happened*.

"it isn't that I set out on economic policies; it's that I set out really to change the approach, and changing the economics is the means of changing that approach. If you change the approach you really are after the heart and soul of the nation. Economics are the method; the object is to change the heart and soul." -Guess Who

[Geilinor]

A Corbyn aide has been accused of breaking into an MP's office.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/23/jeremy-corbyn-aide-accused-illegal-entry-mps-office

[Wolfmanne2]

The electorate happened*.

"it isn't that I set out on economic policies; it's that I set out really to change the approach, and changing the economics is the means of changing that approach. If you change the approach you really are after the heart and soul of the nation. Economics are the method; the object is to change the heart and soul." -Guess Who

Margaret Thatcher gives herself too much credit, along with her supporters. The country was going that way, a Labour government under Jim Callaghan would have been marching in the same direction, a SDP/Liberal government under Roy Jenkins would have gone in the same direction too. But as Thatcher had luck on her side, we ended up with the radical ideological zealot taking us in that direction.

[Imperializt Russia]

A Corbyn aide has been accused of breaking into an MP's office.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/23/jeremy-corbyn-aide-accused-illegal-entry-mps-office

"Spokesmen for Corbyn and McDonnell claimed that the row was a “small matter” stemming from a miscommunication, and that access had been sought on the assumption that Malhotra had vacated the office on resigning her post."

It seems to be "breaking in" bearing on the sheer technicality of what consists proper entry to an office, and the team alleges that it occurred after she vacated her shadow cabinet post.

Hardly lockpicks by torchlight.

[Geilinor]

A Corbyn aide has been accused of breaking into an MP's office.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/23/jeremy-corbyn-aide-accused-illegal-entry-mps-office

"Spokesmen for Corbyn and McDonnell claimed that the row was a “small matter” stemming from a miscommunication, and that access had been sought on the assumption that Malhotra had vacated the office on resigning her post."

It seems to be "breaking in" bearing on the sheer technicality of what consists proper entry to an office, and the team alleges that it occurred after she vacated her shadow cabinet post.

Hardly lockpicks by torchlight.

According to them, but Malhotra has a different story.

[Imperializt Russia]

"Spokesmen for Corbyn and McDonnell claimed that the row was a “small matter” stemming from a miscommunication, and that access had been sought on the assumption that Malhotra had vacated the office on resigning her post."

It seems to be "breaking in" bearing on the sheer technicality of what consists proper entry to an office, and the team alleges that it occurred after she vacated her shadow cabinet post.

Hardly lockpicks by torchlight.

According to them, but Malhotra has a different story.

I'm trying to draw a line under what's being insinuated.

[Chestaan]

Neoliberalism happened.

My point being that Labour tends to identify itself as social democratic rather than socialist.

As far as I know, it was founded explicitly as a socialist party. On the other point, Imperializt Russia is correct in saying that the social democracy policies of Old Labour were largely buried with neo-liberalism. The same happened across a lot of Europe, where Labour/Socialist parties took a sharp shift to the right. But it does seem that recently the older, left policies of these parties are becoming more in demand, as evidenced by the rise of Syriza, Podemos, Sinn Fein and AAA/PBP as well as Corbyn in Britain. Whether such a trend will last is hard to tell, I'm hopeful but not overly optimistic.

[Hydesland]

Confirmed, Corbyn is running a den of thieves.

[Ifreann]

Confirmed, Corbyn is running a den of thieves.

*guild

[Conscentia]

Neoliberalism happened.

My point being that Labour tends to identify itself as social democratic rather than socialist.

The Labour Party's constitution explicitly states "the Labour Party is a democratic socialist party" (Clause IV), although the constitution goes on to say "to these ends we work for: A. A DYNAMIC ECONOMY, [...] with a thriving private sector [...]" as part of that same clause. So the Labour Party does self-describe as socialist, but is not sincerely socialist.

[Greed and Death]

there might have been riots

You laugh, but apparently all people could care about right after the vote was how it was going to affect Game of Thrones.

A new twist jump to reality.

Queen Elizabeth declares herself queen of the salt throne. Merkhal of house Lannister sends her best fighter to burn the English hither lands to provoke war.

[Greed and Death]

My point being that Labour tends to identify itself as social democratic rather than socialist.

The Labour Party's constitution explicitly states "the Labour Party is a democratic socialist party" (Clause IV), although the constitution goes on to say "to these ends we work for: A. A DYNAMIC ECONOMY, [...] with a thriving private sector [...]" as part of that same clause. So the Labour Party does self-describe as socialist, but is not sincerely socialist.

originally it said.

To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service.

[Ifreann]

You laugh, but apparently all people could care about right after the vote was how it was going to affect Game of Thrones.

A new twist jump to reality.

Queen Elizabeth declares herself queen of the salt throne. Merkhal of house Lannister sends her best fighter to burn the English hither lands to provoke war.

Elizabeth of House Windsor, the second of her name, by the grace of the old gods and the new of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men Queen, Lord of the United Kingdom, Defender of the Faith, and Protector of the Realm.

[Questers]

thatcher did nothing to increase the amount of cars in ownership, the growth trend has been steady since the early 60s.

the steepest fall in the number of households with no cars was, wow, what a surprise, the 1950s and 1960s

the one notable thing in car ownership that increased in thatchers time was the number of households which had three cars. a tiny increase. and people who'd have voted tory anyway

http://www.racfoundation.org/assets/rac ... report.pdf

[Ithqington]

I know I am UKIP Supporter, but I think Jeremy Corbyn still better off be leader of labour party than anything else

So how do you feel about the fact you seem to support people like this?

Sorry but Are you kidding me?

[Frank Zipper]

I don't know what "social renting" is, but that peaked under Thatcher, in 1981, at 31%

Renting a house or flat from the local council/authority or another social landlord like a housing association. In contrast to renting housing from a private sector landlord.

[Frank Zipper]

Where are the English hither lands? I'm guessing Yorkshire.

[Irona]

"Spokesmen for Corbyn and McDonnell claimed that the row was a “small matter” stemming from a miscommunication, and that access had been sought on the assumption that Malhotra had vacated the office on resigning her post."

It seems to be "breaking in" bearing on the sheer technicality of what consists proper entry to an office, and the team alleges that it occurred after she vacated her shadow cabinet post.

Hardly lockpicks by torchlight.

According to them, but Malhotra has a different story.

Honestly it just looks like their grasping at straws now. When a new group of anti-Corbyn MP's are accusing him or his staff of doing something horrible every couple of days anything that might have had value just looks staged. All this does is harm Malhotra's credibility.

[Lamadia III]

I just don't understand the entire thing with the Labour Party!
We are a modern, leading country in the world; we enjoy massive liberal freedoms, some of the best human rights in the world; we have business big & small everywhere and encourage innovative commerce whilst also sharing in some social projects, like the NHS & state schooling. I simply don't understand the appeal of the far-left, certainly not nationally, and not in the Labour Party. Labour should be a centre-political group, as Blair & co made it, with substantial differences to the Tories but nothing dangerously radical. The appeal of radical left-wing militancy is a real danger across Europe & even in the United States, but I would have hoped that here in Britain we would have gone past having a left-wing union-nut [see what I did there?] like Jeremy Corbyn or the Shadow Chancellor as the leader of the main opposition party!