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Necessitating Violence

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Not a Bang but a Whimper
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Necessitating Violence

Postby Not a Bang but a Whimper » Sat May 21, 2016 3:04 pm

As women, LGBT people, and people of color get slaughtered in the streets on a daily basis, I'm starting to think it's necessary the left take a no tolerance approach — by that, I mean by using violence.

Is there any inherent virtue in free speech? What argument is there, beyond a religious and occult idea of being "endowed by our creator" with the right to perpetuate injustice? Consider that bigots already defend rape, murder, and harassment — of course they will object to that assertion, because they themselves have a vested interest in protecting themselves as well as criminals (if any overlap exists) — so is the right to violent expression, by association, not cause for alarm?

Or perhaps it is that they are calling for more than mere expression. While, if this expression had no indirect effects, it might be acceptable, it instead causes irreparable harm that we would combat with violence if it occurred directly. When a legislator passes an order, that is not mere expression.

Is it not right, then, to react to the causes and perpetrators of violence with violence? Is the historic bloc is to be replaced, is it not necessary to act on it as it has acted on us?

What do you dare to think, NSG?
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The New Sea Territory
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Sat May 21, 2016 3:05 pm

Not a Bang but a Whimper wrote:As women, LGBT people, and people of color get slaughtered in the streets on a daily basis, I'm starting to think it's necessary the left take a no tolerance approach — by that, I mean by using violence.


It's taken this long for people to finally see!

Not a Bang but a Whimper wrote:Is there any inherent virtue in free speech? What argument is there, beyond a religious and occult idea of being "endowed by our creator" with the right to perpetuate injustice? Consider that bigots already defend rape, murder, and harassment — of course they will object to that assertion, because they themselves have a vested interest in protecting themselves as well as criminals (if any overlap exists) — so is the right to violent expression, by association, not cause for alarm?


You're framing it wrong. Freedom of speech is a relationship between the government and an individual (or a group), not a defense of speech between individuals. This is why the almighty overlord Max Barry (praise be unto him), can remove whoever he pleases from NS.

If oppressed minorities are using violence as a means of resistance to systemic or societal oppression, they aren't violating free speech. If they were to use the power of the government to censor people, they would. Hence why we should support people like Bash Back! and the Huey P. Newton Gun Club.
Last edited by The New Sea Territory on Sat May 21, 2016 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
| Ⓐ | Anarchist Communist | Heideggerian Marxist | Vegetarian | Bisexual | Stirnerite | Slavic/Germanic Pagan | ᛟ |
Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore

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Comcaliph
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Postby Comcaliph » Sat May 21, 2016 3:06 pm

Down with the oppressors.

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SaintB
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Postby SaintB » Sat May 21, 2016 3:06 pm

You can't hold the moral high ground if you resort to the base tactics of the opposition.
Hi my name is SaintB and I am prone to sarcasm and hyperbole. Because of this I make no warranties, express or implied, concerning the accuracy, completeness, reliability or suitability of the above statement, of its constituent parts, or of any supporting data. These terms are subject to change without notice from myself.

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Comcaliph
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Postby Comcaliph » Sat May 21, 2016 3:07 pm

SaintB wrote:You can't hold the moral high ground if you resort to the base tactics of the opposition.

What good is a moral high ground if you remain oppressed and live a lower standard of life?

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Quokkastan
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Postby Quokkastan » Sat May 21, 2016 3:08 pm

Because the best thing to do when your side is clearly in the right, and the other guys are clearly completely wrong, and everyone in the middle can see it...

Is to be wrong also.

Why didn't I see it sooner?
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Comcaliph
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Postby Comcaliph » Sat May 21, 2016 3:08 pm

Quokkastan wrote:Because the best thing to do when your side is clearly in the right, and the other guys are clearly completely wrong, and everyone in the middle can see it...

Is to be wrong also.

Why didn't I see it sooner?

Comcaliph wrote:What good is a moral high ground if you remain oppressed and live a lower standard of life?

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Paddy O Fernature
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Paddy O Fernature » Sat May 21, 2016 3:10 pm

Can't tell if serious or "satire"....

Hopefully the latter....
Last edited by Paddy O Fernature on Sat May 21, 2016 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Quokkastan
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Postby Quokkastan » Sat May 21, 2016 3:10 pm

Comcaliph wrote:
Quokkastan wrote:Because the best thing to do when your side is clearly in the right, and the other guys are clearly completely wrong, and everyone in the middle can see it...

Is to be wrong also.

Why didn't I see it sooner?

Comcaliph wrote:What good is a moral high ground if you remain oppressed and live a lower standard of life?

If you think giving the other guys a point is going to improve your conditions, you're delusional.
Give us this day our daily thread.
And forgive us our flames, as we forgive those who flame against us.
And lead us not into trolling, but deliver us from spambots.
For thine is the website, and the novels, and the glory. Forever and ever.
In Violent's name we pray. Submit.

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Comcaliph
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Postby Comcaliph » Sat May 21, 2016 3:11 pm

Quokkastan wrote:
Comcaliph wrote:

If you think giving the other guys a point is going to improve your conditions, you're delusional.

If the other guys are elk mated and change is forced, improvements of conditions will eventually arrive

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Traditionalism
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Postby Traditionalism » Sat May 21, 2016 3:12 pm

Not a Bang but a Whimper wrote:As women, LGBT people, and people of color get slaughtered in the streets on a daily basis, I'm starting to think it's necessary the left take a no tolerance approach — by that, I mean by using violence.

Is there any inherent virtue in free speech? What argument is , therebeyond a religious and occult idea of being "endowed by our creator" with the right to perpetuate injustice? Consider that bigots already defend rape, murder, and harassment — of course they will object to that assertion, because they themselves have a vested interest in protecting themselves as well as criminals (if any overlap exists) — so is the right to violent expression, by association, not cause for alarm?

Or perhaps it is that they are calling for more than mere expression. While, if this expression had no indirect effects, it might be acceptable, it instead causes irreparable harm that we would combat with violence if it occurred directly. When a legislator passes an order, that is not mere expression.

Is it not right, then, to react to the causes and perpetrators of violence with violence? Is the historic bloc is to be replaced, is it not necessary to act on it as it has acted on us?

What do you dare to think, NSG?

I'm a racist, a bigot, a Fascist and people like me are desperately relying on a violent reaction from liberals and their Black Lives Matter friends to kick things off. Guess what, when it goes down, the mainstream lemmings are going to side with us. Can't wait for the day of the rope
"But in the face of these obstacles, blows, intrigues and persecutions, assaulting us from every direction, having this terrible feeling of aloneness, having nowhere to turn, we opposed all this with a firm determination to die. "The death team" is the expression of these inner feelings of the legionary youth throughout the whole country, to receive death; its determination to go forward, through death." -Corneliu Zelea Codreanu

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Comcaliph
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Postby Comcaliph » Sat May 21, 2016 3:13 pm

Traditionalism wrote:
Not a Bang but a Whimper wrote:As women, LGBT people, and people of color get slaughtered in the streets on a daily basis, I'm starting to think it's necessary the left take a no tolerance approach — by that, I mean by using violence.

Is there any inherent virtue in free speech? What argument is , therebeyond a religious and occult idea of being "endowed by our creator" with the right to perpetuate injustice? Consider that bigots already defend rape, murder, and harassment — of course they will object to that assertion, because they themselves have a vested interest in protecting themselves as well as criminals (if any overlap exists) — so is the right to violent expression, by association, not cause for alarm?

Or perhaps it is that they are calling for more than mere expression. While, if this expression had no indirect effects, it might be acceptable, it instead causes irreparable harm that we would combat with violence if it occurred directly. When a legislator passes an order, that is not mere expression.

Is it not right, then, to react to the causes and perpetrators of violence with violence? Is the historic bloc is to be replaced, is it not necessary to act on it as it has acted on us?

What do you dare to think, NSG?

I'm a racist, a bigot, a Fascist and people like me are desperately relying on a violent reaction from liberals and their Black Lives Matter friends to kick things off. Guess what, when it goes down, the mainstream lemmings are going to side with us. Can't wait for the day of the rope

Black Lives Matter and Liberals are two different things, at least proper liberals. I hope to think in an intellectual society you are one of the first eliminated

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The New Sea Territory
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Sat May 21, 2016 3:13 pm

SaintB wrote:You can't hold the moral high ground if you resort to the base tactics of the opposition.


This might make sense on an internet forum, but its a purely semantic way of pushing nonviolence.

Just because the tactics can be linguistically described the same (using the word "violence") doesn't necessarily mean they are ethically comparable. On top of that, viewing violence as an inherent wrong provides no serious framework for social change or any credible way for analyzing history.
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Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore

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District XIV
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Postby District XIV » Sat May 21, 2016 3:13 pm

Not a Bang but a Whimper wrote:As women, LGBT people, and people of color get slaughtered in the streets on a daily basis

lmfao gonna need a source on this

the US may not be a haven of tolerance for those groups but they aren't "slaughtered in the streets on a daily basis"

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Traditionalism
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Postby Traditionalism » Sat May 21, 2016 3:16 pm

Comcaliph wrote:
Traditionalism wrote:I'm a racist, a bigot, a Fascist and people like me are desperately relying on a violent reaction from liberals and their Black Lives Matter friends to kick things off. Guess what, when it goes down, the mainstream lemmings are going to side with us. Can't wait for the day of the rope

Black Lives Matter and Liberals are two different things, at least proper liberals. I hope to think in an intellectual society you are one of the first eliminated

You do realize that the far-right extremists have militias, neo nazi skinhead groups, the KKK, biker gangs, veterans, law enforcement, etc.

What do your 'intellectuals' have? Wikipedia sources and hot coffee from starbucks? Lmao :clap:
"But in the face of these obstacles, blows, intrigues and persecutions, assaulting us from every direction, having this terrible feeling of aloneness, having nowhere to turn, we opposed all this with a firm determination to die. "The death team" is the expression of these inner feelings of the legionary youth throughout the whole country, to receive death; its determination to go forward, through death." -Corneliu Zelea Codreanu

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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Sat May 21, 2016 3:17 pm

Paddy O Fernature wrote:Can't tell if serious or "satire"....

Hopefully the latter....

Sadly, it seems to be serious. Violence is never a proper response to speech.
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The New Sea Territory
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Sat May 21, 2016 3:18 pm

District XIV wrote:
Not a Bang but a Whimper wrote:As women, LGBT people, and people of color get slaughtered in the streets on a daily basis

lmfao gonna need a source on this

the US may not be a haven of tolerance for those groups but they aren't "slaughtered in the streets on a daily basis"


Women was probably a stretch.

This is only Wikipedia's 2010-Present category. It's probably incomplete. Not to mention an attempted arson of Canada's only SRS center.

As for people of color, look in the news on any day and there will be a story about police brutality.
| Ⓐ | Anarchist Communist | Heideggerian Marxist | Vegetarian | Bisexual | Stirnerite | Slavic/Germanic Pagan | ᛟ |
Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore

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Comcaliph
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Postby Comcaliph » Sat May 21, 2016 3:18 pm

Traditionalism wrote:
Comcaliph wrote:Black Lives Matter and Liberals are two different things, at least proper liberals. I hope to think in an intellectual society you are one of the first eliminated

You do realize that the far-right extremists have militias, neo nazi skinhead groups, the KKK, biker gangs, veterans, law enforcement, etc.

What do your 'intellectuals' have? Wikipedia sources and hot coffee from starbucks? Lmao :clap:

Not all veterans share the same views as you, nor all law enforcement, nor all biker gangs, I've seen more new Nazi skinhead groups being scared out of towns than refugees moving into said towns

The left wing also has militias, when was the last time the right wing side pulled off something like the revolution in Russia in 1917

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The New Sea Territory
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Sat May 21, 2016 3:18 pm

Geilinor wrote:Sadly, it seems to be serious. Violence is never a proper response to speech.


Liberals conveniently ignore when hateful rhetoric becomes action.
| Ⓐ | Anarchist Communist | Heideggerian Marxist | Vegetarian | Bisexual | Stirnerite | Slavic/Germanic Pagan | ᛟ |
Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore

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Founded:

Postby Donut section » Sat May 21, 2016 3:19 pm

Anyone who hasn't been forced to use violence to defend themselves is living in a dream world.

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Quokkastan
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Postby Quokkastan » Sat May 21, 2016 3:20 pm

Comcaliph wrote:
Quokkastan wrote:If you think giving the other guys a point is going to improve your conditions, you're delusional.

If the other guys are elk mated and change is forced, improvements of conditions will eventually arrive

How?

How is using violence going to end subtle discrimination in the workforce?

How is killing a klan member going to change the fact that cops are slightly more likely to resort to violence if the perp is Black?

How will mobs of LGBT people setting fires and overturning cars change public opinion about them in a positive way?

This strategy cannot help you. It's never helped anyone.
Give us this day our daily thread.
And forgive us our flames, as we forgive those who flame against us.
And lead us not into trolling, but deliver us from spambots.
For thine is the website, and the novels, and the glory. Forever and ever.
In Violent's name we pray. Submit.

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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Sat May 21, 2016 3:20 pm

Oh yes, because perpetuating violence and bloodshed in society has always gone well.

You don't think you can push and not be pushed back do you? And what happens if you lose?

It's in everyone's best interest that peace be maintained, regardless of how slow whatever change you want is put in place.
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"In any case we clearly see....That some opportune remedy must be found quickly for the misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working class...it has come to pass that working men have been surrendered, isolated and helpless, to the hardheartedness of employers and the greed of unchecked competition." -Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum

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Paddy O Fernature
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Postby Paddy O Fernature » Sat May 21, 2016 3:21 pm

The New Sea Territory wrote:
District XIV wrote:lmfao gonna need a source on this

the US may not be a haven of tolerance for those groups but they aren't "slaughtered in the streets on a daily basis"


Women was probably a stretch.

This is only Wikipedia's 2010-Present category. It's probably incomplete. Not to mention an attempted arson of Canada's only SRS center.

As for people of color, look in the news on any day and there will be a story about police brutality.


I see FAR more "thugs" being shot by fellow "thugs" on a daily basis, then I do "police brutality" stories in a given month. Try again.

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District XIV
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Postby District XIV » Sat May 21, 2016 3:21 pm

The New Sea Territory wrote:
District XIV wrote:lmfao gonna need a source on this

the US may not be a haven of tolerance for those groups but they aren't "slaughtered in the streets on a daily basis"


Women was probably a stretch.

This is only Wikipedia's 2010-Present category. It's probably incomplete. Not to mention an attempted arson of Canada's only SRS center.

As for people of color, look in the news on any day and there will be a story about police brutality.

Your link about violence against LGBT people in the US solidly disproves the OP's claim of "slaughtered in the streets on a daily basis." The article lists a few dozen incidents over a span of six years.

Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ ... s#Homicide
"According to the US Department of Justice, blacks accounted for 52.5% of homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with whites 45.3% and "Other" 2.2%. The offending rate for blacks was almost 8 times higher than whites, and the victim rate 6 times higher. Most homicides were intraracial, with 84% of white victims killed by whites, and 93% of black victims killed by blacks.[38][39][40]."

Maybe we should focus on the fact that the vast majority of homicides against blacks are committed by other blacks (93% of them, as the quote says), instead of blaming "le ebil cops."
Last edited by District XIV on Sat May 21, 2016 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Comcaliph
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Founded: May 17, 2016
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Postby Comcaliph » Sat May 21, 2016 3:22 pm

Quokkastan wrote:
Comcaliph wrote:If the other guys are elk mated and change is forced, improvements of conditions will eventually arrive

How?

How is using violence going to end subtle discrimination in the workforce?

How is killing a klan member going to change the fact that cops are slightly more likely to resort to violence if the perp is Black?

How will mobs of LGBT people setting fires and overturning cars change public opinion about them in a positive way?

This strategy cannot help you. It's never helped anyone.

Fear is a powerful tool. It helped Lenin in 1917

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