Alternative to the Minimum Wage

[Councilmembers]

Centrist and left-wing politicians often advocate for an increase in the minimum wage so that lower income households have more money to spend on basic needs such as food, housing, and child care. While I agree that the government must take steps to ensure that all people can access these essentials -- I don't think that a wage increase is the best way to go about this. Consider this: my city is suffering from a relatively high rate of unemployment and destitution. Employers surveyed claim that it is becoming increasingly hard to hire workers, and that market liberalization should take place in order to fix this problem. There is little taste for an increase in my area, both among employers and employees.

I propose that instead of a 15 dollar wage floor, we establish community trusts (funded through payroll plans) that can provide child care and other services that a minimum wage sets out to help you pay for. By doing this, we guarantee essentials without negatively affecting business on a massive scale.

What does NSG think?

[Costa Fierro]

Well ideally things such as healthcare and housing would already be provided by the government in the first place.

[Themiclesia]

Minimum wage also has an ethical nature... nobody's time and labour is worth that little. It is a matter of human dignity that all others should uphold.

[Communist Xomaniax]

I think we should work to make unionization and worker's cooperatives the norm in society, and exempt unionized and cooperative businesses from minimum wage laws, since they're not really needed in those scenarios.

[The Snazzylands]

Replace minimum wage with negative flat taxation and/or profit-sharing.

Well ideally things such as healthcare and housing would already be provided by the government in the first place.

If the government pays for healthcare, doesn't it kind of get the right to tell people what to do with their bodies?

I think we should work to make unionization and worker's cooperatives the norm in society

Also this.

[The Imperium Empires]

Isn't healthcare technically paid throug tax in some countries.

[Sungai Pusat]

Isn't healthcare technically paid throug tax in some countries.

I think he's talking from a more American perspective.

[Northern Freikur]

Well ideally things such as healthcare and housing would already be provided by the government in the first place.

So we shouldn't have the freedom to choose a house for ourselves?

[The Imperium Empires]

Ahh ok I'm Australian so I didn't realise.

[Kvatchdom]

Minimum wage is an unnecessary burden. Remove it and allow unions to barter for wages.

[Esternial]

Replace minimum wage with negative flat taxation and/or profit-sharing.

Well ideally things such as healthcare and housing would already be provided by the government in the first place.

If the government pays for healthcare, doesn't it kind of get the right to tell people what to do with their bodies?

No, because you pay for government services through your taxes.

[Arkiasis]

There's the idea of a universal basic income which gives everyone a certain amount of money enough for the very basic necessities. Rent, food and clothes. So jobs now will allow you to buy luxuries and extra things rather than having a job just to survive. Under this sort of system, there could be no minimum wage since people now have their basic necessities to life covered and any extra money earned will be for entertainment and luxury.

Another solution could be a negative income tax rate where those earning below a certain amount will receive money from the government to "supplement" their income to a certain standard.

[Jetan]

Minimum wage is vastly preferential to cooperatives. As an example, food markets are nearly solely controlled by two cooperatives here (k-group and s-group) which has squashed competition in the field. Food prices dropped by less than a percent last year (iirc), and the reason that was significant was that it was the first time in decades.

[Arumdaum]

universal basic income

abolishing wage labor + communism

[Imperializt Russia]

When you say "fifteen dollar pay floor", what is that?
Companies pay whatever but then the government tops up their wages to the equivalent of $15/hr?

Similar concepts are explored elsewhere as a "citizen's wage", sometimes as a "top up" as I think you suggest or a flat payment to all citizens.

The UK had a slightly awkward step towards a "national living wage" lately. "Living wage", that is, a wage that supposedly would allow everyone who earns it to make a comfortable living, is something like £9/hr and over a tenner in London.
"National living wage" started the long road to this figure earlier this year at £7.20/hr for over-25s, while the minimum wage is £6.70 for someone over 21.

Where I work, as a temporary agency worker at a fish factory where about three quarters of the staff seem to be temporary agency workers, the management said "sod it", made the basic rate of pay £7.20 for everyone (everyone over 21, I assume, there are additional rates of minimum wage for 16-20yos), and changed the overtime perk regulations.
It used to be that Saturdays were automatically 1.5x rate overtime and Sundays automatically 2x rate overtime, and bank holidays were also automatic overtime. Now, bank holidays cannot be refused lest disciplinary action, and Saturdays/Sundays are only overtime once you satisfy a minimum requirement of 39 hours during the week.

Many other employers have cut benefits and perks to accommodate the national living wage, lest they faced paring down their profit margins.

[Imperializt Russia]

Well ideally things such as healthcare and housing would already be provided by the government in the first place.

So we shouldn't have the freedom to choose a house for ourselves?

If you can afford to, go for it.

For the vast majority of people that can't, housing should probably be provided by the government.

[Radiatia]

Replace minimum wage with negative flat taxation and/or profit-sharing.

Well ideally things such as healthcare and housing would already be provided by the government in the first place.

If the government pays for healthcare, doesn't it kind of get the right to tell people what to do with their bodies?

I think we should work to make unionization and worker's cooperatives the norm in society

Also this.

I strongly agree with the above, excluding the rather silly claim about government paying for healthcare giving it the right to control people. On that logic, paying for health insurance gives your insurance company the right to tell you what to do with your body.

But stronger support for unions and negative taxation are a far better solution than a minimum wage.

[Socialist Tera]

Minimum wage is an unnecessary burden. Remove it and allow unions to barter for wages.

Barter for wages? You kidding me. Workplace relations is a terrible idea. Bosses won't cave in, they simply refuse to hire you and hire someone willing to work for less.

[Aclion]

Minimum wage is an inherently flawed concept in that it (ostensibly) establishes a minimum level of income necessary to live, but neither guarantees that income nor guarantees that income will continue to be enough to live on.

[Socialist Tera]

Minimum wage is an inherently flawed concept in that it (ostensibly) establishes a minimum level of income necessary to live, but neither guarantees that income nor guarantees that income will continue to be enough to live on.

It's to do with the economic system it is based on, band-aid on a gaping wound.

[Costa Fierro]

Well ideally things such as healthcare and housing would already be provided by the government in the first place.

So we shouldn't have the freedom to choose a house for ourselves?

Could you afford to pay for a house deposit on minimum wage or finance a house loan?

[Socialist Tera]

So we shouldn't have the freedom to choose a house for ourselves?

Could you afford to pay for a house deposit on minimum wage or finance a house loan?

Let's be honest. He thinks minimum wage jobs are for teens or for dropkicks. I don't think he cares much what happens to people on minimum wage.

[Sungai Pusat]

Well ideally things such as healthcare and housing would already be provided by the government in the first place.

So we shouldn't have the freedom to choose a house for ourselves?

There is a world of a difference between the government choosing your house for you and providing you housing in some form or another. The latter can vary wildly, from your thought that it implies the government assigning the house to you all the way to the government simply being the largest customer for private contractors to bid for business on to build that housing for them, for which they either sell at a markedly low price or allow the residents affected to choose or- whatever it is, it certainly isn't taking away your freedom to do anything.

[The Foxes Swamp]

So we shouldn't have the freedom to choose a house for ourselves?

Could you afford to pay for a house deposit on minimum wage or finance a house loan?

yep

[Imperializt Russia]

Could you afford to pay for a house deposit on minimum wage or finance a house loan?

yep

What country do you live in?
It's certainly not the case in the UK, where the government had to introduce partial financing loans because mortgages were completely out of reach of most of the middle class and basically all of the people who aren't established middle class or over 40.