Left-Wing Discussion Thread

[Gatito]

Hey, as long as you're anti-state and anti-capitalism, you're fine in my books.

No fucking comrade of mine.

Primivism is not only fucking terrible, it's ableist - to a murderous degree - and even sexist. It very well might be the single most extreme form of reactionary ideology.

When did I ever say that I was a primitivist, comrade?

[Mistillania]

Convince me, as an investor, to put my money into a collective.

it makes money

You can not give money to a collective, because a true collective has no need or use for it.

[Kubra]

it makes money

You can not give money to a collective, because a true collective has no need or use for it.

if someone's investing in something, it's sort of assumed that currency is changing hands.

[Mistillania]

You can not give money to a collective, because a true collective has no need or use for it.

if someone's investing in something, it's sort of assumed that currency is changing hands.

The theoretical collective i am proposing is a closed economic system, making a capitalistic investment in such a system would be pointless. It would the equivalent of giving a computer to a recently contacted tribe in the Amazon. They may find some strange use for it, but not in some way the barer of the gift would have expected.

[Korouse]

they're more resilient than private businesses

Convince me, as an investor, to put my money into a collective.

That heavily depends on the success of the collective and your overall stance towards it as an individual. If it's doing particularly well and making money, doing something good and gaining popularity thus putting the idea out there that this sort of thing was a sustainable business model - why wouldn't you invest in it?

Assuming this is a worker's coop or something. Not a village.

[Yorkers]

Hello all. I'm going a comparison of NSG's right and left wings. If you could all take the survey I made in this thread, I would really appreciate it:

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=385013

[United Marxist Nations]

Posting this quote I did from the survey thread onto both Left and Right Wing DT's to see if anyone can tell me what ideology I most fit into, and whether I am left or right wing.

Which one should I take? I am a an authoritarian socialist who thinks government should be a mix of Church and a workers' party, with the Church deciding moral stances of the state. I also generally think that nations should be generally free to manage their matters separately, but I consider capitalists and bourgeois to be a force in society that actively works against morality and social decency.

[Crockerland]

Posting this quote I did from the survey thread onto both Left and Right Wing DT's to see if anyone can tell me what ideology I most fit into, and whether I am left or right wing.

Which one should I take? I am a an authoritarian socialist who thinks government should be a mix of Church and a workers' party, with the Church deciding moral stances of the state. I also generally think that nations should be generally free to manage their matters separately, but I consider capitalists and bourgeois to be a force in society that actively works against morality and social decency.

go to http://politicaltest.net/en and take the test.

[United Marxist Nations]

Posting this quote I did from the survey thread onto both Left and Right Wing DT's to see if anyone can tell me what ideology I most fit into, and whether I am left or right wing.

go to http://politicaltest.net/en and take the test.

It really didn't tell me anything I didn't already know.

[The New Sea Territory]

they're more resilient than private businesses

Convince me, as an investor, to put my money into a collective.

Fuck investment, our collective will loot what it needs from the looters of the world: the bourgeoisie!

[Shonto]

Convince me, as an investor, to put my money into a collective.

Fuck investment, our collective will loot what it needs from the looters of the world: the bourgeoisie!

No war but the class war my dude

[Yugo-Austria]

No fucking comrade of mine.

Primivism is not only fucking terrible, it's ableist - to a murderous degree - and even sexist. It very well might be the single most extreme form of reactionary ideology.

When did I ever say that I was a primitivist, comrade?

The difference between primitivism and anarchism is that primitivism is because they're too stupid, while anarchism is a choice- so, he's not primitivist, he's anarchist.
Edit:
P.S.: Primitivism is probably the least sexist form of (non?)government there is, because back in yonder days when everyone was too stupid to form a good government, men and women did the same things - hunting, picking berries, etc. (Referring to pre-humans, of course.)

[Arkolon]

Sooooo anyway. How about that leftism.... Pretty sweet, right?

That sweetness would be the fruits of your labour which the capitalists withheld from you.

Is 100% of surplus value going to the remuneration of labour really a desirable end? How will this cover capital depreciation, the expansion of production, or rainy-day funds? Surely profit still exists in socialism (it has to in any economic system that is sustainable), just that this process is socialised instead of kept private.

[Conscentia]

That sweetness would be the fruits of your labour which the capitalists withheld from you.

Is 100% of surplus value going to the remuneration of labour really a desirable end? How will this cover capital depreciation, the expansion of production, or rainy-day funds? Surely profit still exists in socialism (it has to in any economic system that is sustainable), just that this process is socialised instead of kept private.

... Well, you sure took that remark very seriously.

[Arkolon]

Is 100% of surplus value going to the remuneration of labour really a desirable end? How will this cover capital depreciation, the expansion of production, or rainy-day funds? Surely profit still exists in socialism (it has to in any economic system that is sustainable), just that this process is socialised instead of kept private.

... Well, you sure took that remark very seriously.

It's a question I've asked many times, I have to re-raise it every time it can come up. Everyone's happy to say "full fruit of my labour" but no one's explained what this means for savings and investment.

[Greater Beggnig]

Who would've thought that Northern Davincia was the capitialists all along.
Jinkies!

Does this mean that Jeremy Corbyn can be the talking dog?

Corbyn and Bernie, eh?

[Kubra]

That sweetness would be the fruits of your labour which the capitalists withheld from you.

Is 100% of surplus value going to the remuneration of labour really a desirable end? How will this cover capital depreciation, the expansion of production, or rainy-day funds? Surely profit still exists in socialism (it has to in any economic system that is sustainable), just that this process is socialised instead of kept private.

100% remuneration has never been in anyone's theoretical roster, neither Marx or Proudhon. Where it seems to be the case, it's meant socially, not individually.
It's just sloganeering, or perhaps "bants" is more appropriate

[Northern Davincia]

Convince me, as an investor, to put my money into a collective.

Fuck investment, our collective will loot what it needs from the looters of the world: the bourgeoisie!

Good luck with that.

[Bakery Hill]

Fuck investment, our collective will loot what it needs from the looters of the world: the bourgeoisie!

Good luck with that.

Cheers comrade.

[The newfound islands]

I know and the liberals also think that the government should dictate what we do oh but that's somehow freedom oh yes sir let's have the government tell me what to eat,who to marry,who to vote for and everything else oh yes that's freedom alright.

the state is not the government what the hell are you even talking about.

Please stop omg is this a parody account? I can't take any more

no this is not a parody account and you leftist are all for big government and you know what big government does it restricts people's freedoms and i'm way more for state's rights than the government.

[Northern Davincia]

Please stop omg is this a parody account? I can't take any more

no this is not a parody account and you leftist are all for big government and you know what big government does it restricts people's freedoms and i'm way more for state's rights than the government.

States can still expand into a big government. I live in New York so it isn't that hard to imagine what a liberal hellhole looks like.

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

no this is not a parody account and you leftist are all for big government

Really? Wow that's news to us anarchists.

[Arkolon]

Is 100% of surplus value going to the remuneration of labour really a desirable end? How will this cover capital depreciation, the expansion of production, or rainy-day funds? Surely profit still exists in socialism (it has to in any economic system that is sustainable), just that this process is socialised instead of kept private.

100% remuneration has never been in anyone's theoretical roster, neither Marx or Proudhon. Where it seems to be the case, it's meant socially, not individually.
It's just sloganeering, or perhaps "bants" is more appropriate

Why is it used as an argument though? Surely the "theft" of the capitalist is the same action as the "theft" of the collective, just shone through a different lens - and so, either theft in both cases (which is consequentially unsustainable if avoided), or alternatively not theft at all.

[The newfound islands]

no this is not a parody account and you leftist are all for big government

Really? Wow that's news to us anarchists.

umm anarchy is a right-wing view.

[The newfound islands]

no this is not a parody account and you leftist are all for big government and you know what big government does it restricts people's freedoms and i'm way more for state's rights than the government.

States can still expand into a big government. I live in New York so it isn't that hard to imagine what a liberal hellhole looks like.

yeah thanks to your mayor bill de blilasio.