Cecil the Lion - Killed by American Tourist

by **Mubaru** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:28 am

Cecil the Lion - What are your thoughts?

After recent investigation into the killing of the, quote, "the most famous creature in one of Zimbabwe's national parks", an American Dentist Practitioner in Minnesota was found to have paid around $35,000 to the Park Guards, so that he could lure the animal out of it's conservation and kill it.

Already, the internet is responding. The Practice where he works, and the practice that he owns (supposedly), are under fire on social media for his actions. On the Facebook page of the business, River Bluff Dental, https://www.face%20book.comk/RiverBluffDental, people are showing their outrage, and bashing the killer, now known as "Walter Palmer" for his actions.

Comments taken from the Facebook page;

A petition to bring justice for Cecil the Lion has started, already gaining 8,766 signatures.

Petition; http://www.thepetitionsite.com/821/738/351/demand-justice-for-cecil-the-lion-in-zimbambwe/

Articles;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/zimbabwe/11767119/Cecil-the-lions-killer-revealed-as-American-dentist.html

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/28/killer-of-cecil-the-lion-was-american-zimbabwe-officials-claim

So, my questions are, what do you think the punishment should be for this sort of thing? Should he be held responsible, or should the guards be punished? Or both? Do you think he deserves this sort of aggressive behavior from the public? What are your overall thoughts on the situation?

by **The Serbian Empire** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:36 am

How does a dentist get that rich as to be able to go spend $300+k to go lion hunting?

by **Greed and Death** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:37 am

My guess is the dentist simply paid guides to take him some place he can shoot the lion.

The guides likely without his knowledge lured Cecil out of the park for him to kill.

by **Napkiraly** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:38 am

The guards should definitely be punished. Since the dentist wont be imprisoned in the USA and definitely would not be sent back to Zim (admittedly for several valid reasons) there should be public pressure so that he loses his job. Purfect scenario would entail him never being able to practice dentistry ever again due to toxicity around hiring him.

by **Mubaru** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:38 am

The Serbian Empire wrote:How does a dentist get that rich as to be able to go spend $300+k to go lion hunting?

He owns his own practice, and from what I've learned, is an avid big game hunter, going the world over to hunt lions, leopards and the like. If you really love something, or have a goal in mind, you can save up enough to do just about anything. He was also not alone.

by **DBJ** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:39 am

People waste their energy protesting such insignificant 'crimes'.

by **Greed and Death** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:40 am

The Serbian Empire wrote:How does a dentist get that rich as to be able to go spend $300+k to go lion hunting?

He does cosmetic dentistry for the top 1%.

He like makes between 1 and 5 million a year.

by **Mubaru** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:41 am

DBJ wrote:People waste their energy protesting such insignificant 'crimes'.

He lured an innocent, beloved animal, out of it's enclosure and killed it. That isn't hunting, that is murder.

The Lion was loved in the area, and it is an absolute outrage (in my opinion), that he went to another country, another society, and killed the innocent Lion to fuel his own ego just a little more. He left the thoughts of hundreds, and thousands of citizens of Zimbabwe, and citizens the world over who have enjoyed the life of this Lion.

by **Greed and Death** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:42 am

Napkiraly wrote:The guards should definitely be punished. Since the dentist wont be imprisoned in the USA and definitely would not be sent back to Zim (admittedly for several valid reasons) there should be public pressure so that he loses his job. Purfect scenario would entail him never being able to practice dentistry ever again due to toxicity around hiring him.

He runs his own company, it caters to the wealthy.

And because of medical privacy rules you will never be able to find out who his clients are.

The only way you will pressure him is if you go sit in font of his operation and protest him since that is the only way you can shame people using his services.

by **Napkiraly** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:43 am

DBJ wrote:People waste their energy protesting such insignificant 'crimes'.

Poaching isn't an insignificant crime considering its role in the decline in plenty of animal species around the globe.

Admittedly the biggest reason for poaching isn't due to the USA but rather another large and in charge country where more than half of it's population still believes in medicinal woo.

by **The Serbian Empire** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:44 am

greed and death wrote:
The Serbian Empire wrote:How does a dentist get that rich as to be able to go spend $300+k to go lion hunting?

He does cosmetic dentistry for the top 1%.

He like makes between 1 and 5 million a year.

Just despicable... That's what he does. Dentistry for the vain.

by **Liivland Abufan Se Steorre** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:45 am

Mubaru wrote:
DBJ wrote:People waste their energy protesting such insignificant 'crimes'.

He lured an innocent, beloved animal, out of it's enclosure and killed it. That isn't hunting, that is murder.

The Lion was loved in the area, and it is an absolute outrage (in my opinion), that he went to another country, another society, and killed the innocent Lion to fuel his own ego just a little more. He left the thoughts of hundreds, and thousands of citizens of Zimbabwe, and citizens the world over who have enjoyed the life of this Lion.

No it's not.

by **Mubaru** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:46 am

Liivland Abufan Se Steorre wrote:
Mubaru wrote:
He lured an innocent, beloved animal, out of it's enclosure and killed it. That isn't hunting, that is murder.

The Lion was loved in the area, and it is an absolute outrage (in my opinion), that he went to another country, another society, and killed the innocent Lion to fuel his own ego just a little more. He left the thoughts of hundreds, and thousands of citizens of Zimbabwe, and citizens the world over who have enjoyed the life of this Lion.

No it's not.

How can you say it is not? He did not hunt this animal, he lured it out of the park, and killed it. Not for food, not for purpose, for his own goddamn means. - That is what is outrageous.

by **Icrum** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:47 am

Mubaru wrote:
DBJ wrote:People waste their energy protesting such insignificant 'crimes'.

He lured an innocent, beloved animal, out of it's enclosure and killed it. That isn't hunting, that is murder.

The Lion was loved in the area, and it is an absolute outrage (in my opinion), that he went to another country, another society, and killed the innocent Lion to fuel his own ego just a little more. He left the thoughts of hundreds, and thousands of citizens of Zimbabwe, and citizens the world over who have enjoyed the life of this Lion.

Well, by definition it's not murder, it's poaching. But yeah, I find it saddening that this man would kill this chill lion.

by **Greed and Death** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:48 am

Napkiraly wrote:
DBJ wrote:People waste their energy protesting such insignificant 'crimes'.

Poaching isn't an insignificant crime considering its role in the decline in plenty of animal species around the globe.

Admittedly the biggest reason for poaching isn't due to the USA but rather another large and in charge country where more than half of it's population still believes in medicinal woo.

He had the permits to hunt a lion, provided it was not in the national park.

Most likely frustrated by an inability to get a lion he tipped the guides to get one.

The guides likely broke the law without his knowledge.

by **Greed and Death** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:49 am

The Serbian Empire wrote:
greed and death wrote:
He does cosmetic dentistry for the top 1%.

He like makes between 1 and 5 million a year.

Just despicable... That's what he does. Dentistry for the vain.

If you can afford it you too can be vain.

by **Dread Lady Nathicana** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:50 am

Whoever is at fault, it's disgusting. And I'm one who's usually just fine with hunting.

This wasn't hunting, however. It was paying someone off for an easy kill. No skill, no challenge, no hunt. Just killing.

If the man knew what the situation was, and did pay them to either lure out the lion, or lured him out himself, then absolutely - throw the book at him. If all he's guilty of is paying to poach, still throw the book at him - poaching is a horrible thing to be involved in. If he thought it was somewhat legit, and payed them to guide? Well then, we've got some issues and I wouldn't be for raking him over the coals. The locals/guides/people he paid, regardless, ought to be roasted for this. They knew, there's no excuse. Whatever the case is, they took money to provide an easy kill, and knew better.

It doesn't matter if it were a friendly, famous lion or not, full extent of the law should apply. But it's doubly sad for all the people who had come to love the animal, and the positive image he provided for the preserve overall - ambassador so to speak. And now, he's a poster animal for poaching, illegal hunting, and unfortunately, American greed. Does not reflect well on us at all. It's a pity so many of us get judged by the loudest, most obnoxious, and visible of us, but there you have it.

Poor lion. Didn't deserve to die like that.

by **Occupied Deutschland** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:52 am

Two independent sources have confirmed the hunter's identity to the paper, which has also seen a copy of the relevant hunting permit.

"Both the professional hunter and land owner had no permit or quota to justify the offtake of the lion and therefore are liable for the illegal hunt."

There's apparently confusion over the facts between the National Parks service of Zimbabwe and the reporting papers. It appears as if the American hunter was tricked by poachers, if the former statement is true. Corruption in conservation programs is a major issue in Africa and the safari-guides/guards should be prosecuted for such. If the latter is true, then this fellow deserves every acre of shit shoved on him by the Internet and some more besides (well, he deserves a prosecution for poaching, but I'm unsure if the US would extradite to Zimbabwe).

by **Napkiraly** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:52 am

greed and death wrote:
Napkiraly wrote:Poaching isn't an insignificant crime considering its role in the decline in plenty of animal species around the globe.

Admittedly the biggest reason for poaching isn't due to the USA but rather another large and in charge country where more than half of it's population still believes in medicinal woo.

He had the permits to hunt a lion, provided it was not in the national park.

Most likely frustrated by an inability to get a lion he tipped the guides to get one.

The guides likely broke the law without his knowledge.

Still makes it against the law. Ignorance doesn't excuse one. You should know that as a lawyer.

by **Gauthier** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:53 am

This is the real reason Zoo started.

by **The Serbian Empire** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:54 am

Napkiraly wrote:
DBJ wrote:People waste their energy protesting such insignificant 'crimes'.

Poaching isn't an insignificant crime considering its role in the decline in plenty of animal species around the globe.

Admittedly the biggest reason for poaching isn't due to the USA but rather another large and in charge country where more than half of it's population still believes in medicinal woo.

The Chinese are the worst for poaching. I think that there should be US sanctions on new multinational development in China until they ban this medicinal woo involving Rhino horns and lion bones.

by **Gauthier** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:54 am

The Serbian Empire wrote:
Napkiraly wrote:Poaching isn't an insignificant crime considering its role in the decline in plenty of animal species around the globe.

Admittedly the biggest reason for poaching isn't due to the USA but rather another large and in charge country where more than half of it's population still believes in medicinal woo.

The Chinese are the worst for poaching. I think that there should be US sanctions on new multinational development in China until they ban this medicinal woo involving Rhino horns and lion bones.

Ha. The officials are probably greenlighting medicinal poaching for kickbacks.

by **Liivland Abufan Se Steorre** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:55 am

Mubaru wrote:
Liivland Abufan Se Steorre wrote:No it's not.

How can you say it is not? He did not hunt this animal, he lured it out of the park, and killed it. Not for food, not for purpose, for his own goddamn means. - That is what is outrageous.

Definition of Murder (United Kingdom):

Crown Prosecution Service Legal Guidance on 'Homicide: Murder and Manslaughter' wrote:...the crime of murder is committed, where a person:
of sound mind and discretion (i.e. sane);
unlawfully kills (i.e. not self-defence or other justified killing);
any reasonable creature (human being);
in being (born alive and breathing through its own lungs - Rance v Mid-Downs Health Authority (1991) 1 All ER 801 and AG Ref No 3 of 1994 (1997) 3 All ER 936;
under the Queen's Peace;
with intent to kill or cause grievous bodily harm (GBH).

Definition of Murder (United States):

18 U.S. Code § 1111 wrote:Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought.

Definition of Murder (Zimbabwe):

s47 Criminal Law (Codification and Reform) Act wrote:(1) Any person who causes the death of another person:
(a) intending to kill the other person; or
(b) realising that there is a real risk or possibility that his or her conduct may cause death, and continues to
engage in that conduct despite the risk or possibility shall be guilty of murder

by **CTALNH** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:57 am

DBJ wrote:People waste their energy protesting such insignificant 'crimes'.

Yes lets kill every endangered species because fuck those guys its not our responsibility as the supreme species on earth to make sure they survive and all that jazz.

by **Scyobayrynn** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:57 am

The Serbian Empire wrote:How does a dentist get that rich as to be able to go spend $300+k to go lion hunting?

Are you serious?

Cecil the Lion - Killed by American Tourist

Cecil the Lion - Killed by American Tourist

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