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Judge refuses to listen to case because of hijab

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Iwassoclose
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Judge refuses to listen to case because of hijab

Postby Iwassoclose » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:24 pm

Montreal — A Quebec Court judge refused to hear the case this week of a single mother trying to retrieve her car because the woman would not remove her Muslim head scarf.

“In my opinion, you are not suitably dressed,” Judge Eliana Marengo told Rania El-Alloul Tuesday, according to a courtroom recording obtained by the Canadian Broadcasting Corp.

“Decorum is important. Hats and sunglasses, for example, are not allowed, and I don’t see why scarves on the head would be. The same rules need to be applied to everyone.”

Ms. El-Alloul testified she was on welfare and the mother of three sons. She was trying to get back her car, which had been seized by the provincial automobile insurance board after one of her sons was caught driving it with a suspended licence.

She told the judge she needed the car to provide for her family. “I’m facing money problems,” she said.

But Judge Marengo refused to hear the merits of the case, citing a regulation governing court decorum that states simply, “Any person appearing before the court must be suitably dressed.”

There are no religious symbols in this room, not on the walls and not on the persons

She noted Ms. El-Alloul had said her hijab was a religious requirement. “In my opinion, the courtroom is a secular place and a secular space,” she said. “There are no religious symbols in this room, not on the walls and not on the persons.”

Canadian courts have wrestled with the issue of a witness wearing the niqab, which covers the entire face except for the eyes. The concern then was the right of an accused to assess a witness’s credibility by seeing her face. In 2012, the Supreme Court of Canada established a framework to be applied case by case to determine whether a witness could wear a niqab in court.

Sameer Zuberi, a law graduate and board member with the Canadian Muslim Forum, said this is the first case he is aware of where a woman has been ordered to remove a hijab, which leaves the face exposed.

“I think it’s a clear error that the judge made, in my personal opinion,” he said.

“I think that there’s been a long history in Quebec and Canada of people wearing religious headgear who are defending themselves in court, who are bringing cases in court, who are lawyers themselves.”
Related

Quebec Values Charter 2.0: Ban against crosses, hijabs would only apply to new public employees

Judge Marengo, who was appointed to the bench in 1996, told Ms. El Alloul she could take off her hijab or seek a postponement to find a lawyer.

Interviewed on ADR television, Ms. El-Alloul said she was shocked by the handling of her case.

“Where is justice? I am a Canadian citizen,” she said. “There is no justice with this judge.”

Source



I am with the judge.

But for different reasons. The hijab is not religious clothing. It is an accessory like a hat or sunglasses and as such should be removed in court.

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Charellia
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Postby Charellia » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:31 pm

Seems a little extreme to refuse to hear a case over what the plaintiff is wearing, regardless of its religious significance. Kind of seems like the judge is on a power trip.

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Iwassoclose
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Postby Iwassoclose » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:34 pm

Charellia wrote:Seems a little extreme to refuse to hear a case over what the plaintiff is wearing, regardless of its religious significance. Kind of seems like the judge is on a power trip.


Quebec really values secularism. And the Quebec court backs the judges decision.

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Independent Republic of Not My Problem
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Postby Independent Republic of Not My Problem » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:36 pm

Judge's court, judge's rules. Since there is no exception for other religious trappings, there should be no exception for this defendant.

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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:37 pm

Either she's consistent and she's not allowed Orthodox Jews to wear the yarmulke within her court and is thus an idiot who should be removed from office, or she's singling out the hijab, in which case she's a bigot who should be removed from office.
Last edited by Conserative Morality on Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:38 pm

Iwassoclose wrote:Quebec really values secularism. And the Quebec court backs the judges decision.

Secularism is different from laïcité. This man has been taking too many lessons from Turkey and France.
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Scepez
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Postby Scepez » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:39 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:Either he's consistent and he's not allowed Orthodox Jews to wear the yarmulke within his court and is thus an idiot who should be removed from office, or he's singling out the hijab, in which case he's a bigot who should be removed from office.


Removing a hat wont kill/hurt your religious beliefs. It's just a hat. In a court, where religion doesn't belong anyway.
???

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Charellia
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Postby Charellia » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:40 pm

Iwassoclose wrote:
Charellia wrote:Seems a little extreme to refuse to hear a case over what the plaintiff is wearing, regardless of its religious significance. Kind of seems like the judge is on a power trip.


Quebec really values secularism. And the Quebec court backs the judges decision.

That's beside my point. It would be extreme to ignore the case even if she were wearing inappropriate non-religious clothing.

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Floydcraft
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Postby Floydcraft » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:40 pm

Fair's fair, they shouldn't get any special treatment.
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Fanosolia
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Postby Fanosolia » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:40 pm

Personally mixed on it, but you do make a good point with court rules. I just hope there wasn't an exception before this other wise there would be a good reason to call hypocrisy

Though are sure it's not a religious item? I'm pretty sure it is in some way.
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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:42 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:Either he's consistent and he's not allowed Orthodox Jews to wear the yarmulke within his court and is thus an idiot who should be removed from office, or he's singling out the hijab, in which case he's a bigot who should be removed from office.

This.

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Postby Conserative Morality » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:43 pm

Scepez wrote:Removing a hat wont kill/hurt your religious beliefs. It's just a hat. In a court, where religion doesn't belong anyway.

Making me cross myself and swear to God before entering a court of law wouldn't hurt my lack of belief, but I'll be fucked if I comply with that bullshit.
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Russels Orbiting Teapot
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Postby Russels Orbiting Teapot » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:44 pm

Even if this is consistent with the general expectations of Canadian courts, it does seem unnecessarily harsh.

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Devvo Mate
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Postby Devvo Mate » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:44 pm

This is bullshit powertripping

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The Qeiiam Galaxy
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Postby The Qeiiam Galaxy » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:44 pm

Anyone should be allowed to wear whatever they want before court. That's Freedomtm.

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Devvo Mate
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Postby Devvo Mate » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:45 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:Either he's consistent and he's not allowed Orthodox Jews to wear the yarmulke within his court and is thus an idiot who should be removed from office, or he's singling out the hijab, in which case he's a bigot who should be removed from office.


The judge is a she.

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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:48 pm

Devvo Mate wrote:The judge is a she.

Consider it suitably amended.
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Scepez
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Postby Scepez » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:49 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Scepez wrote:Removing a hat wont kill/hurt your religious beliefs. It's just a hat. In a court, where religion doesn't belong anyway.

Making me cross myself and swear to God before entering a court of law wouldn't hurt my lack of belief, but I'll be fucked if I comply with that bullshit.


People do that?
Anyway, that courtroom is a place where religion is just not there. As so, it'll be (or should) be treated as a hat/accessory. So, a person should probably show a tiny bit of respect by removing said hat/accessory, because it's religious meaning is irrelevant there. That seems like common sense.
???

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:49 pm

Iwassoclose wrote:The hijab is not religious clothing. It is an accessory like a hat or sunglasses and as such should be removed in court.


This implies religious clothing would deserve special dispensation in your eyes.
Why ? While religion is often important to people, some people might feel just as strongly (or even vastly stronger) about their clothes for other reasons.
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Equalsun Empire
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Postby Equalsun Empire » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:50 pm

The Qeiiam Galaxy wrote:Anyone should be allowed to wear whatever they want before court. That's Freedomtm.

So if you were a judge, and a witness walked into your court stark naked to testify, you wouldn't be at all disturbed?
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Pope Joan
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Postby Pope Joan » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:50 pm

It's like requiring her counsel to remove his trousers.

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:51 pm

Equalsun Empire wrote:
The Qeiiam Galaxy wrote:Anyone should be allowed to wear whatever they want before court. That's Freedomtm.

So if you were a judge, and a witness walked into your court stark naked to testify, you wouldn't be at all disturbed?


The lady Justice does not wear a blindfold for nothing ;)
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Sebastianbourg
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Postby Sebastianbourg » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:52 pm

Scepez wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Making me cross myself and swear to God before entering a court of law wouldn't hurt my lack of belief, but I'll be fucked if I comply with that bullshit.

Anyway, that courtroom is a place where religion is just not there. As so, it'll be (or should) be treated as a hat/accessory. So, a person should probably show a tiny bit of respect by removing said hat/accessory, because it's religious meaning is irrelevant there. That seems like common sense.

^
This

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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:53 pm

Scepez wrote:Anyway, that courtroom is a place where religion is just not there. As so, it'll be (or should) be treated as a hat/accessory. So, a person should probably show a tiny bit of respect by removing said hat/accessory, because it's religious meaning is irrelevant there. That seems like common sense.

No, it seems like a bunch of laïcité bullshit that serves no purpose. What's next, gonna check Mormons for their magic underwear? :roll:
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Equalsun Empire
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Postby Equalsun Empire » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:53 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:
Equalsun Empire wrote:So if you were a judge, and a witness walked into your court stark naked to testify, you wouldn't be at all disturbed?


The lady Justice does not wear a blindfold for nothing ;)

Well played, well played :rofl:
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So I got into am currently in a name-calling contest in a flag rating thread...

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