The Hagia Sophia: What should be done about it?

[Skappola]

The Hagia Sophia, the former headquarters of the Byzantine Orthodox Church, former Ottoman Mosque, a beautiful Museum, and the source of a significant amount of conflict between Greece and Turkey. The Hagia Sophia is currently facing a number of problems, most importantly a crumbling foundation and religious tension over its current status. In February, a bill was introduced, under pressure by more radical Islamists in Istanbul, to convert it to a Mosque for the first time since the 1930s. The United States International Council on Religious Freedom (USCIRF) has condemned this act, once again worsening relations between the superpower and the rising regional power. However, this brings to head an important question: What should be done with it, if anything? The Greeks want to convert it to an Orthodox Church, the Turks want to return it to a mosque, and the secularists are attempting to keep it a museum. However, its questionable whether this is possible or the best choice. Additionally, many Christians and Greek Historians want to uncover more of the Christian religious imagery, to the expense of the Islamic decoration. On the other hand, Muslims and Turkish Historians want to restore much of the Ottoman imagery, which would be at the expense of the Christian imagery. On top of this all, multiple cracks and problems in the foundations of the church suggest that, if a major earthquake hits the fault-line the Hagia Sophia sits upon, the entire structure could collapse. Any restorations to the foundation would come at the expense of the religious imagery and historical value, drawing criticism from certain religious organizations. So what should be done?

I believe that the best thing to do would to simply keep it a Museum, but I have a feeling this won't be possible due to increased religiousness within the Turkish government. If it is converted to a religious center again, they must allow Christians to also worship within the church, which would only be fair considering the entirety of Orthodoxy considers it a major holy spot while for the Muslims it is not nearly as important.

[Gigaverse]

My first tentative suggestion is to transform it into a Jerusalem-like building: where religions should not fight each other.

[Skappola]

My first tentative suggestion is to transform it into a Jerusalem-like building: where religions should not fight each other.

One choice is to go the Church of the Holy Sepulchre route, where the building is divided out between the different religions, or churches are built in the area around it. However, this would certainly detract from the magnificence of the Hagia Sophia. Plus, the religious in the church do sometimes fight - at one point a Coptic and Eastern Orthodox priest got into a fight over the Coptic priest placing their chair closer to the Orthodox church. They had to be dragged out by the police.

[Saiwania]

We have to recognize the facts on the ground, it is within Turkey which is a majority Muslim country. There is nothing that can be done if it was decided to turn it into a mosque. Christianity would be better off building a structure just as grand as the Hagia Sophia ever was in a majority Christian country that is likely to remain Christian.

[Threlizdun]

Like most problems in life, this is one that can easily be solved with ball-pits full of hummus.

[Iwassoclose]

Tear it down.

[New Werpland]

My first tentative suggestion is to transform it into a Jerusalem-like building: where religions should not fight each other.

Not this one, right?

[Skappola]

We have to recognize the facts on the ground, it is within Turkey which is a majority Muslim country. There is nothing that can be done if it was decided to turn it into a mosque. Christianity would be better off building a structure just as grand as the Hagia Sophia ever was in a majority Christian country that is likely to remain Christian.

To be fair, Christians used to be a massive minority in Istanbul until they were sent away the population exchange of the 1920s. Besides, large numbers of Orthodox Christians live in the surrounding area and make the pilgrimage to the Hagia Sophia. Would it be fair to them to convert one of their holiest church to an Islamic Mosque, effectively barring them from worship in the building?

[The Grim Reaper]

We have to recognize the facts on the ground, it is within Turkey which is a majority Muslim country. There is nothing that can be done if it was decided to turn it into a mosque. Christianity would be better off building a structure just as grand as the Hagia Sophia ever was in a majority Christian country that is likely to remain Christian.

To be fair, Christians used to be a massive minority in Istanbul until they were sent away the population exchange of the 1920s. Besides, large numbers of Orthodox Christians live in the surrounding area and make the pilgrimage to the Hagia Sophia. Would it be fair to them to convert one of their holiest church to an Islamic Mosque, effectively barring them from worship in the building?

I disagree intensely with Saiwania's opinions on immigration, but you have to hand it to him, he is impeccably consistent about it.

[Sternberg]

Regardless of the option chosen, I think the first priority would have to be to reinforce or rebuild the foundations of the Hagia Sophia.

Yes, some of the religious iconography and architecture may be lost in the process (depending on whether the work goes as planned or awry), but they way I see it, it's probably better to still have the structure to be able to remain standing (then we can come back to this debate at another time), rather then carrying on with the squabble, have an earthquake hit and lose the whole lot anyway.

[Geilinor]

It should be kept a museum, why reignite old religious conflicts?

[Digital Planets]

1. The USCIRF can promptly fuck right off, this isn't their issue. Let the Turks deal with it.

2. Set the Haggis Soap as a brothel.

3. Make a profit, sell it to Muslims, make more profit.

4. Turn it into a giant ion cannon.

Also, your avatar fooled me because for a sec I thought it was History Alive. Seriously, where are they?

[The Nuclear Fist]

I wish they would kep it as a museum.

[Constantinopolis]

Obviously it must remain a museum, and the first priority should be to reinforce the foundations. Hagia Sophia is 1500 years old, and not only a major holy site and artistic treasure, but also one of the oldest intact buildings in the world. We must do everything possible to preserve it for future generations. Even if some of the artwork is damaged, the foundations must be reinforced.

And as much as I wish to see the glory of a Divine Liturgy celebrated in the Mother of Churches once again, it's simply not realistic to return Hagia Sophia to Orthodox Christian use... because there are hardly any Christians left in Istanbul. Who would attend the Divine Liturgies that would be celebrated in Hagia Sophia? Tourists? It would have to be almost entirely tourists, yes. So that can't work. That's why it should remain a museum.

[Skappola]

Obviously it must remain a museum, and the first priority should be to reinforce the foundations. Hagia Sophia is 1500 years old, and not only a major holy site and artistic treasure, but also one of the oldest intact buildings in the world. We must do everything possible to preserve it for future generations. Even if some of the artwork is damaged, the foundations must be reinforced.

And as much as I wish to see the glory of a Divine Liturgy celebrated in the Mother of Churches once again, it's simply not realistic to return Hagia Sophia to Orthodox Christian use... because there are hardly any Christians left in Istanbul. Who would attend the Divine Liturgies that would be celebrated in Hagia Sophia? Tourists? It would have to be almost entirely tourists, yes. So that can't work. That's why it should remain a museum.

Over the course of 2012, 29 Million people visited the Hagia Sophia, or about 80,000 a day. There's a good chance a large part of that group is Christian. It could definitely sustain itself as a tourist church, such as those in Jerusalem, but it would have to also be open to the local Muslims for worship. This would be exceedingly difficult, though not necessarily impossible. However, I agree that the best thing to do is keep it a museum. The main problem is that the Turkish government just hasn't done enough for keeping the building up. Too busy with more lucrative building projects, I suppose.

[Union Of Canadorian Socialists Republic]

We have to recognize the facts on the ground, it is within Turkey which is a majority Muslim country. There is nothing that can be done if it was decided to turn it into a mosque. Christianity would be better off building a structure just as grand as the Hagia Sophia ever was in a majority Christian country that is likely to remain Christian.

There are plenty of those; they are called Cathedrals.

[Saiwania]

The main problem is that the Turkish government just hasn't done enough for keeping the building up. Too busy with more lucrative building projects, I suppose.

Erdogan is busy building his 1,000 room presidential palace.

[Constantinopolis]

Obviously it must remain a museum, and the first priority should be to reinforce the foundations. Hagia Sophia is 1500 years old, and not only a major holy site and artistic treasure, but also one of the oldest intact buildings in the world. We must do everything possible to preserve it for future generations. Even if some of the artwork is damaged, the foundations must be reinforced.

And as much as I wish to see the glory of a Divine Liturgy celebrated in the Mother of Churches once again, it's simply not realistic to return Hagia Sophia to Orthodox Christian use... because there are hardly any Christians left in Istanbul. Who would attend the Divine Liturgies that would be celebrated in Hagia Sophia? Tourists? It would have to be almost entirely tourists, yes. So that can't work. That's why it should remain a museum.

Over the course of 2012, 29 Million people visited the Hagia Sophia, or about 80,000 a day. There's a good chance a large part of that group is Christian. It could definitely sustain itself as a tourist church, such as those in Jerusalem, but it would have to also be open to the local Muslims for worship. This would be exceedingly difficult, though not necessarily impossible. However, I agree that the best thing to do is keep it a museum. The main problem is that the Turkish government just hasn't done enough for keeping the building up. Too busy with more lucrative building projects, I suppose.

I agree. Although regarding the "tourist church" issue, I'd like to note that Jerusalem and the Palestinian territories have a significant population of Arab Christians, much larger than the tiny remaining Christian population in Istanbul. The churches in Jerusalem have tens of thousands of potential local parishioners. Hagia Sophia... not so much. Not any more, that is. Most Greeks living in Turkey were expelled in the 1920s, as noted earlier, and nearly all the remaining ones left over the following decades, due to ethnic riots and violence.

[Patria Magna]

We have to recognize the facts on the ground, it is within Turkey which is a majority Muslim country. There is nothing that can be done if it was decided to turn it into a mosque. Christianity would be better off building a structure just as grand as the Hagia Sophia ever was in a majority Christian country that is likely to remain Christian.

Turkey is only Muslim because evil invaders invaded and pillaged theByzantine Empire.

[Skappola]

Over the course of 2012, 29 Million people visited the Hagia Sophia, or about 80,000 a day. There's a good chance a large part of that group is Christian. It could definitely sustain itself as a tourist church, such as those in Jerusalem, but it would have to also be open to the local Muslims for worship. This would be exceedingly difficult, though not necessarily impossible. However, I agree that the best thing to do is keep it a museum. The main problem is that the Turkish government just hasn't done enough for keeping the building up. Too busy with more lucrative building projects, I suppose.

I agree. Although regarding the "tourist church" issue, I'd like to note that Jerusalem and the Palestinian territories have a significant population of Arab Christians, much larger than the tiny remaining Christian population in Istanbul. The churches in Jerusalem have tens of thousands of potential local parishioners. Hagia Sophia... not so much. Not any more, that is. Most Greeks living in Turkey were expelled in the 1920s, as noted earlier, and nearly all the remaining ones left over the following decades, due to ethnic riots and violence.

True, true. Turning it into a Church would likely inflame tensions anyway, but what has to be ensured is that it does not become a Mosque. I'm not the most knowledgeable of Turkish politics - do you think this bill (To turn it into a Mosque) will pass?

[Skappola]

We have to recognize the facts on the ground, it is within Turkey which is a majority Muslim country. There is nothing that can be done if it was decided to turn it into a mosque. Christianity would be better off building a structure just as grand as the Hagia Sophia ever was in a majority Christian country that is likely to remain Christian.

Turkey is only Muslim because evil invaders invaded and pillaged theByzantine Empire.

Yes, those evil Ottomans and their different religion and culture.

[Constantinopolis]

I agree. Although regarding the "tourist church" issue, I'd like to note that Jerusalem and the Palestinian territories have a significant population of Arab Christians, much larger than the tiny remaining Christian population in Istanbul. The churches in Jerusalem have tens of thousands of potential local parishioners. Hagia Sophia... not so much. Not any more, that is. Most Greeks living in Turkey were expelled in the 1920s, as noted earlier, and nearly all the remaining ones left over the following decades, due to ethnic riots and violence.

True, true. Turning it into a Church would likely inflame tensions anyway, but what has to be ensured is that it does not become a Mosque. I'm not the most knowledgeable of Turkish politics - do you think this bill (To turn it into a Mosque) will pass?

I'm not very knowledgeable about Turkish politics either, but I really don't think it can pass. It would not only inflame tensions with a large number of foreign countries (and practically all of Turkey's allies), but it would also anger Turkish secularists and many moderate Muslims. The only way this could possibly pass is if Erdoğan is intentionally trying to show a giant middle finger to his domestic opponents and say "fuck you, I'm invincible, I could turn your house into a mosque if I wanted to".

[Kalifati Arab shqiptar]

Isn't this a dead thing? Ottomans invaded Byzantine, they were too cocky and they fell and a new dark era plunged Balkans.

[Digital Planets]

Isn't this a dead thing? Ottomans invaded Byzantine, they were too cocky and they fell and a new dark era plunged Balkans.

You can't really kill what's inanimate.

[Imperialpowersofkorea]

Make into a Gurudwara, you would get amazing food there and good music


but no keep it as a muesuem