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Vaccines & Vaccination Debate

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Benuty
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Vaccines & Vaccination Debate

Postby Benuty » Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:41 pm

RORY CARROLL, THE GUARDIAN
17 JAN 2015 AT 10:17 ET

In Orange County, California, wealthier, better-educated parents are less inclined to immunise their children. Doctors warn of a public health time-bomb

Travel north to south in Orange County, a coastal strip of 34 cities in southern California which includes Disneyland, and the growing size and opulence of the houses show people getting richer.

Trawl medical records, and you notice something else: children getting fewer vaccinations.

“The rate of immunisation falls as you go north to south. It tracks the socio-economic statistics in the county,” said Matt Zahn, medical director of Epidemiology and Assessment for the Orange County Health Care Agency.

At Capistrano Unified school district, for instance, there was a 9.5% rate of children not fully vaccinated because of parents’ beliefs. At the nearby, poorer Santa Ana Unified district, in contrast,only 0.2% of kindergartners had exemptions on file .

A measles outbreak at Disneyland , stemming from an unvaccinated young woman dubbed patient zero, has shone a light on such dichotomies. Officials have confirmed at least 32 cases, almost all of them unvaccinated.

It is a strange first-world irony that wealthier, better-educated parents are the ones reducing infant vaccination rates, said Zahn. “Many people in this country have never seen a case of measles,” he said. “We’re a victim of our own success.”

The outbreak has triggered recrimination towards an eclectic group of activists who are accused of sabotaging immunisation campaigns by peddling medical myths.

“If we get to a few thousand cases in this country we’ll start seeing deaths. That’s unconscionable,” said Paul Offit, chief of infectious diseases at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia.

Related: Measles outbreak spreads in US after unvaccinated woman visits Disneyland

Patient zero became sick and contagious on 28 December, while at Disneyland. She flew to Snohomish County in Washington state for a few days, then returned to Orange County on 3 January. Health officials announced the outbreak on 7 January.

Her proximity to crowds at the theme park and airports and on planes helped spread the the extremely contagious virus: state health departments in Colorado, Utah and Washington have confirmed cases.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) calls measles, a virus that lives in the nose and throat, the “most deadly of all childhood rash/fever illnesses”. About 90% of those who are not immune will become infected if they come close to an infected person, according to the CDC.

An estimated 20 million people worldwide contract measles each year. In the US, the CDC typically expects only 220 cases. Last year there were 644, a nearly two-decade high.

Measles vaccines are said to be 99% effective but anti-vaccine sentiment is growing in the US, especially in wealthy areas. In California more than 150 schools have exemption rates of 8% or higher for at least one vaccine. All are in areas with incomes averaging $94,500, nearly 60% higher than the county median, according to a Los Angeles Times study last year .
The virus’s relatively low prevalence in the US has emboldened parents to eliminate or delay children’s vaccinations, said Zahn, because they assume the risk of infection is negligible thanks to widespread vaccinations. “You’re riding on the immunisation rates in your community,” he said.

If enough parents do it, the system breaks down. But increasing numbers appear to be doing so over concerns about vaccine safety.

A debunked and withdrawn 1998 Lancet report linking vaccines to autism still lingers in some parents’ minds along with other worries, such as overloading a child’s immune system with multiple, simultaneous vaccinations – a concern lacking scientific basis, said Zahn.

“It’s a grab-bag of issues,” he said.

High-profile opponents of existing protocols include the actor Jenny McCarthy, the non-profit National Vaccine Information Center and an Orange County doctor, Bob Sears, who is famous for authoring The Vaccine Book: Making the Right Decision for Your Child, which has sold hundreds of thousands of copies since 2007.

Sears declined an interview request for this article but directed the Guardian to a Facebook blog in which he played down the gravity of the latest outbreak, saying complications from measles were treatable and that the risk of fatalities in the US was close to zero.

Officials needlessly fanned anxiety about measles by giving “just the part of the truth that they want you to believe”, he wrote. “Don’t let anyone tell you you should live in fear of it. Let’s handle it calmly and without fear or blame.”

Offit, who battled a measles epidemic in Philadelphia in 1991, accused Sears of recklessness, ignorance and doing harm.

“In an ideal world, which this is not, he would be censured by the Californian medical state licensing board, by a medical ethics board, by the American Academy of Pediatrics,” he said. “I find it unconscionable that a man in his position puts out incorrect information about measles.”

Offit assailed Sears in a 2009 article for the official journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics.

Sears declined to respond to the accusations and pointed the Guardian to his published response to Offit.

On Friday, the LA Times published an editorial and letters excoriating the anti-vaccine movement.

“Ignorance cannot dictate public health,” wrote Richard Wulfsberg, a Studio City-based physician. “No unvaccinated child should be allowed to enter public school.”

guardian.co.uk © Guardian News and Media 2015


Source: raw story

Opinion:
Personally I knew about these people for years. I don't know why pseudoscience attracts the wealthy, but these experts in quackery seem to always catch the golden teat. Either way I am rather disgusted that this movement still hasn't been charged with anything yet especially for all the deaths in the developing world, and here at home they have caused. So Jenny McCarthy, and Andrew Wakefield I would just like to take this moment, and say get a real job along with your community of supporters as well.

That being said what say you oh unleavened, and leavened masses of NSG on this wintry midday of a Shabbat?


Mod edit: changed title to something more generic
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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:59 pm

We really shouldn't allow exceptions. Period.
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Imperium Sidhicum
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Postby Imperium Sidhicum » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:02 pm

Here's an interesting thought. The anti-vaccine ideologists believe there's some sort of conspiracy by pharmacy companies (owned by the Illuminati/Freemasons/Jews/reptiloid aliens, obviously) to use faulty vaccines for global population reduction to a manageable level.

Now what if they are actually right, but in the reverse? What if the powers that be have indeed deliberately spread disinformation for the purpose of population reduction - spread rumors that such a conspiracy exists, that pharmacy companies are selling faulty vaccines to kill off parts of the populace. It would lead to an increasing mass paranoia about getting vaccinated, eventually leading to a re-emergence of massive epidemics that would reduce the population exactly as planned, turning the very fears of people against them.
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The Conez Imperium
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Postby The Conez Imperium » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:04 pm

Vaccines should be compulsory. Parents who refuse to have their kids vaccinated should have their kids removed to protective services and the parents charged with negligence. Unless they are allergic to the vaccine.
Last edited by The Conez Imperium on Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:05 pm

Anti-vaccine folks really get my goat. The most common reason they cite, that vaccines "cause autism", which they don't, is especially infuriating because they're basically saying they'd rather have their kid die than develop autism.
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Mefpan
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Postby Mefpan » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:09 pm

Imperium Sidhicum wrote:Here's an interesting thought. The anti-vaccine ideologists believe there's some sort of conspiracy by pharmacy companies (owned by the Illuminati/Freemasons/Jews/reptiloid aliens, obviously) to use faulty vaccines for global population reduction to a manageable level.

Now what if they are actually right, but in the reverse? What if the powers that be have indeed deliberately spread disinformation for the purpose of population reduction - spread rumors that such a conspiracy exists, that pharmacy companies are selling faulty vaccines to kill off parts of the populace. It would lead to an increasing mass paranoia about getting vaccinated, eventually leading to a re-emergence of massive epidemics that would reduce the population exactly as planned, turning the very fears of people against them.

Who guarantees me that you're not spreading these theories, knowing that I won't believe them, to make me get vaccinations for me and my hypothetical children?

Basic fucking logic should tell someone. The government doesn't need to do contrived bullshit conspiracies to do what it wants. Vaccines are meant to reduce the amount of fertile ground contagions can find among the human populace and thus reduce the number of deaths by horrible disease.

And I can't even say "good riddance" to the backwards people thinking vaccinations are just a sham because they're not necessarily at fault for believing that kind of garbage and they'd drag down the rest of society when their belief in nonsensical conspiracies bites them in the ass.
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Insaeldor
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Postby Insaeldor » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:13 pm

This anti-vaccine bullshit is stupid. I feel glad I was able to convince my cousin to get her infant daughter immunized. If your not immunizing your child your a neglectful parent and if your kid gets measles it's your own damn fault for being a neglectful parent.
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Technocratic Federation of Synertia
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Postby Technocratic Federation of Synertia » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:14 pm

And the worst part is that the crotch goblins of these crackpots are not the only affected. People that can't vaccinate for legitimate reasons(low immunity, allergy, etc) lose the protection of herd immunity and become fair prey for diseases.

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Empire of Narnia
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Postby Empire of Narnia » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:14 pm

I get vaccinated because it is a good thing for myself and my community. It's not bad. The myth that it's only religious people who believe those dangerous conspiracy theories is not true. I've seen more "hippy" types push the anti-vaccination agenda than religious conservatives from personal experience.

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Nord Amour
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Postby Nord Amour » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:15 pm

Parents who are able to get their children immunized and fail to do so should be charged with child abuse.

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Postby Conserative Morality » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:19 pm

Empire of Narnia wrote:I get vaccinated because it is a good thing for myself and my community. It's not bad. The myth that it's only religious people who believe those dangerous conspiracy theories is not true. I've seen more "hippy" types push the anti-vaccination agenda than religious conservatives from personal experience.

'Hippy' and 'Religious conservative' go together surprisingly often in the modern day.
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Imperium Sidhicum
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Postby Imperium Sidhicum » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:20 pm

Mefpan wrote:
Imperium Sidhicum wrote:Here's an interesting thought. The anti-vaccine ideologists believe there's some sort of conspiracy by pharmacy companies (owned by the Illuminati/Freemasons/Jews/reptiloid aliens, obviously) to use faulty vaccines for global population reduction to a manageable level.

Now what if they are actually right, but in the reverse? What if the powers that be have indeed deliberately spread disinformation for the purpose of population reduction - spread rumors that such a conspiracy exists, that pharmacy companies are selling faulty vaccines to kill off parts of the populace. It would lead to an increasing mass paranoia about getting vaccinated, eventually leading to a re-emergence of massive epidemics that would reduce the population exactly as planned, turning the very fears of people against them.

Who guarantees me that you're not spreading these theories, knowing that I won't believe them, to make me get vaccinations for me and my hypothetical children?

Basic fucking logic should tell someone. The government doesn't need to do contrived bullshit conspiracies to do what it wants. Vaccines are meant to reduce the amount of fertile ground contagions can find among the human populace and thus reduce the number of deaths by horrible disease.

And I can't even say "good riddance" to the backwards people thinking vaccinations are just a sham because they're not necessarily at fault for believing that kind of garbage and they'd drag down the rest of society when their belief in nonsensical conspiracies bites them in the ass.


What if I am? ;) Whatever the case, THEY will have their way in the end.
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Postby Dread Lady Nathicana » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:23 pm

Scomagia wrote:Anti-vaccine folks really get my goat. The most common reason they cite, that vaccines "cause autism", which they don't, is especially infuriating because they're basically saying they'd rather have their kid die than develop autism.

Heh. I see what you did there, Sco.

Seriously though, it's nigh criminal to neglect your kids like this, and to expose others to risk. And those out there actively tossing out disinformation really ought to be called on it. And hard. It's utterly ridiculous that this is becoming such a thing. You're damn right I got my kids immunized, and nary an issue have we had over it.

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Postby Conserative Morality » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:24 pm

Imperium Sidhicum wrote:What if I am? ;) Whatever the case, THEY will have their way in the end.

UNLESS you've revealed their actual plan knowing that it would be rejected as too obviously stated to be the actual plan, but we see through your shadowmaster illusions and realize the real-fake-real revelation for what it is?
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Esternial
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Postby Esternial » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:28 pm

Soon our medical practitioners will need to drive their vans along schools to lure children with candy in order to get them vaccinated.

It's not like the parents will find out, they've already qualified themselves as bona fide pockholz; can't find any denser dead weight on the market.

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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:31 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:We really shouldn't allow exceptions. Period.

^This, mandatory vaccination or bust.
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:33 pm

Dread Lady Nathicana wrote:
Scomagia wrote:Anti-vaccine folks really get my goat. The most common reason they cite, that vaccines "cause autism", which they don't, is especially infuriating because they're basically saying they'd rather have their kid die than develop autism.

Heh. I see what you did there, Sco.

Seriously though, it's nigh criminal to neglect your kids like this, and to expose others to risk. And those out there actively tossing out disinformation really ought to be called on it. And hard. It's utterly ridiculous that this is becoming such a thing. You're damn right I got my kids immunized, and nary an issue have we had over it.

:p

I just don't understand how people can risk their children's lives so flippantly. It's ridiculous and I'm glad that my mother, who was by no means a great parent to me, had the sense to get me vaccinated.
Last edited by Scomagia on Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Esternial
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Postby Esternial » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:35 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:We really shouldn't allow exceptions. Period.

^This, mandatory vaccination or bust.

Raise their taxes when they're not looking and promise them a tax cut if they vaccinate their children.

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Postby Cetacea » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:37 pm

Okay, I have my children vacinated and have been involved in immunisation promotion campaigns but I want to play devils advocate for a while.

Generally speaking an affluent person, who is generally healthy is going to be fine without vaccination. They may get sick but their immune system should be sufficient to cope, especially as they probably have good access to medical care, good food, warm sanitary surroundings and medicine.

Those who are at risk are the poor, who live in cold, damp homes, have terrible diets (when they do get food) and can't afford medical costs - Immunisation for this group is essential.

Immunisation for all is a public health policy based on wide community control of infection vectors. The disney case highlights that graphically - p but does ones obligation to the community trump a persons freedom to choose what goes into thier own bodies? and should an affluent person who has access to good health care be legally required to vaccinate themselves for the sake of others less fortunate?

should we be investing in those determinates of health that lead to disease risk rather than relying solely on 90% vaccination rates

of course vaccination is awesome and 100% rates could see more disease become extinct - like smallpox is, and hopefully Polio will soon follow - so there are definite benefits...

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Postby Esternial » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:42 pm

Cetacea wrote:Okay, I have my children vacinated and have been involved in immunisation promotion campaigns but I want to play devils advocate for a while.

Generally speaking an affluent person, who is generally healthy is going to be fine without vaccination. They may get sick but their immune system should be sufficient to cope, especially as they probably have good access to medical care, good food, warm sanitary surroundings and medicine.

Those who are at risk are the poor, who live in cold, damp homes, have terrible diets (when they do get food) and can't afford medical costs - Immunisation for this group is essential.

Immunisation for all is a public health policy based on wide community control of infection vectors. The disney case highlights that graphically - p but does ones obligation to the community trump a persons freedom to choose what goes into thier own bodies? and should an affluent person who has access to good health care be legally required to vaccinate themselves for the sake of others less fortunate?

should we be investing in those determinates of health that lead to disease risk rather than relying solely on 90% vaccination rates

of course vaccination is awesome and 100% rates could see more disease become extinct - like smallpox is, and hopefully Polio will soon follow - so there are definite benefits...

Unvaccinated children in a population of predominantly vaccinated children and breeding grounds for more potent strains of otherwise irrelevant diseases. The unvaccinated child stand the risk of being infected by a more virulent form of what they should be vaccinated against. Small availability of hosts means only the nastiest ones get to live on.

Not being vaccinated in a population of vaccinated people might even be a death sentence depending on what vaccines you've decided to keep out of your system.
Last edited by Esternial on Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby The Serbian Empire » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:46 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:We really shouldn't allow exceptions. Period.

Except for those allergic to the vaccine contents. Otherwise, forgettabout.
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Technocratic Federation of Synertia
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Postby Technocratic Federation of Synertia » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:56 pm

Cetacea wrote:Immunisation for all is a public health policy based on wide community control of infection vectors. The disney case highlights that graphically - p but does ones obligation to the community trump a persons freedom to choose what goes into thier own bodies? and should an affluent person who has access to good health care be legally required to vaccinate themselves for the sake of others less fortunate?

Yes.
Last edited by Technocratic Federation of Synertia on Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:16 pm

Imperium Sidhicum wrote:Here's an interesting thought. The anti-vaccine ideologists believe there's some sort of conspiracy by pharmacy companies (owned by the Illuminati/Freemasons/Jews/reptiloid aliens, obviously) to use faulty vaccines for global population reduction to a manageable level.


That is not actually true, there are plenty of developed countries that actually want more people being born but aren't able to turn around their low fertility rates and so have tried relying on either immigration or various social experiments like paying women to have more kids, which generally hasn't worked.

Do they really think that developed nations intentionally want more retirees to young workers? Or that the poorer nations can afford to purposefully limit their populations? I'm sure that people who are anti-vaccine aren't united on why they are so opposed.

The Serbian Empire wrote:Except for those allergic to the vaccine contents. Otherwise, forgettabout.


So how would it be determined if someone was allergic to a particular vaccine without actually going through with it and having them vaccinated?
Last edited by Saiwania on Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Scyobayrynn
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Postby Scyobayrynn » Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:21 pm

I wasnt vaccinated against anything other than polio until I was 15.
I had lived with my grandmother, and because I was her little baby youngest grand son she signed a waiver claiming religious exemption...she lied.

I caught the chicken pox, I had the measels twice(YES TWICE), I had a mild case of the mumps...basically every childhood illness one could get, I got.

Now, she loved me, and didnt want me to have endure the needle, I cant fault a sweet old women for that. Also, she was poorly informed, and poorly educated.
She feared polio, but other illness common to childhood she was of the opinion it was better to be infected, and develop immunity in that way.

Luckily no lasting harm befell me, and as far as my immunological state is concerned, Im a fucking tank. The problem was, that as child, I was a tank--and a big ass vector.
I was like Typhoid Mary walking into my school. While my Grandmother may have had backwoods ideas about vaccination, once I was sick, she was a highly skilled homeopathic master of keeping me fighting. The same may not be said for the children I exposed to sickness.

Long story short, I didnt get immunized, I caught basically everything, and I infected almost all my friends.

Vaccination should be mandatory for public schools.
Last edited by Scyobayrynn on Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Orson Empire » Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:23 pm

Vaccines should be mandatory. There should be no exceptions (including religious exceptions), unless the vaccines presents a real danger to the individual's health (such as if they are allergic to the vaccine).

Anyone who is not immunized presents a danger not only to themselves, but to everyone around them.

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