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New York bans Hydrofracking

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Do you support this decision?

Yes, and I am a New Yorker
13
11%
No, and I am a New Yorker
8
7%
Yes, and I am not a New Yorker
61
53%
No, and I am not a New Yorker
34
29%
 
Total votes : 116

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MERIZoC
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New York bans Hydrofracking

Postby MERIZoC » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:28 am

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/12/17/fracking-new-york0.html
NEW YORK — The news took even the most seasoned environmental activists by surprise: after years of review, Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced Wednesday that New York State would ban hydraulic fracturing.

“I can barely contain myself,” said Nadia Steinzor, the eastern coordinator for national non-profit Earthworks. “Even though Cuomo recently said he was going to make a clear decision, we were not expecting something as exciting and straightforward as this.”

New York State’s decision comes two years after the state’s Department of Health initiated a review of the possible health impacts of hydraulic fracturing, a process in which thousands of gallons of water is mixed with chemicals and sand and pumped deep into the earth to break up gas-rich shale rock formations. The process has been approved in dozens of states across the U.S. and has often been touted by supporters as an economic boon to struggling regions, including next door in Pennsylvania.

New York’s decision is particularly significant because the Marcellus and Utica shale regions, two of the most productive gas plays in the world, lie underneath the state. While there is some debate over the economic benefits of fracking, there’s little doubt that if New York were to legalize the practice it could have reaped billions in revenue and created hundreds or thousands of jobs. By banning the practice, Cuomo has become one of the first state leaders to endorse the idea that the potential health and environmental impacts of fracking outweigh the potential economic benefits. Vermont is the only other state with a ban on fracking, although Vermont doesn’t sit atop shale.

Activists hope that Cuomo's decision will spark more bans across the country. “The fact that they took such a clear conclusion on these health risks sends a very strong signal that will reverberate nationwide about the risks to water, land and health,” Steinzor said.

New York’s Department of Environmental Conservation Commissioner Joe Martens recommended the ban Wednesday after reviewing the results of Acting Health Commissioner Howard Zucker’s long-awaited report on the potential health impacts of fracking.

“I asked myself, ‘would I let my family live in a community with fracking?’ The answer is no,” Zucker said in a statement. “I therefore cannot recommend anyone else’s family to live in such a community either.”

The state’s report stopped short of definitively saying that fracking can impact air quality, water quality, and the health of those that live near it. But it said the majority of scientific literature showed there were enough questions about those potential impacts to warrant a ban.

The hydraulic fracturing industry called the ban a political move.

“The governor clearly understands where important constituencies lie on this issue and he’s acknowledged that,” said Frank Macchiarola, executive vice president of government affairs at America’s Natural Gas Alliance, a trade group. “He is a first rate student of politics and he has been his whole life, and every decision he makes is filtered through that political lens.”

New York has had a moratorium on fracking since 2008. The ban won’t be made official until early 2015, but that hasn’t stopped activists from speculating about how it will affect fracking across the country.

“For once a state leader is recognizing the seriousness of this,” said Deborah Goldberg, an attorney at EarthJustice. “I would hope that it would give other political leaders courage to step forward and admit what we know about the health effects, what we don’t know about the health effects, and take a more cautious approach.”

Well, this is great news. As a New Yorker, I'd been very worried about this. I didn't have much faith in Cuomo, but now I'm happy to say I was wrong. It'd be great to see more states follow in our footsteps. But what do you lot think? Was this the right choice? Should we have a nationwide ban on fracking? And will it happen? I'd love a permanent ban in all other states, but how feasible is it given the influence of the gas companies?

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Teemant
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Postby Teemant » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:30 am

I don't think this is a good move when considering how important energy independence is in today's world.
Last edited by Teemant on Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:30 am

Teemant wrote:I don't think this is a good move when considering how important energy independence is in today's world.

Having clean water is infinitely more important.

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Master Shake
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Postby Master Shake » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:31 am

A national ban will never happen....
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The Conez Imperium
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Postby The Conez Imperium » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:33 am

Wow, what a great politician. I hope more people realise the dangers of hydrofracking.

I would help it would spur similar movements across the States however I fear that is unlikely. Unfortunately the pro-fraking lobby is gaining quite a lot of popularity offering Americans a cheap way out of a complex issue. Most politicians only see as far as their election dates and unfortunately fraking has LONG TERM impacts. By the time a majority of people realise their water is contaminated and collectively protest, it will be too late.
Last edited by The Conez Imperium on Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Teemant
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Postby Teemant » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:34 am

Merizoc wrote:
Teemant wrote:I don't think this is a good move when considering how important energy independence is in today's world.

Having clean water is infinitely more important.


Report didn't say that it has impact on air or water quality.
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Fortschritte
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Postby Fortschritte » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:38 am

Teemant wrote:I don't think this is a good move when considering how important energy independence is in today's world.


While energy independence is important, you must realize that fracking is a highly dangerous practice that contaminates water, pollutes, and continues our reliance on fossil fuels. Good on Cuomo for banning it, it's one of the few good things the careerist has done in office.
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Postby Fortschritte » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:38 am

Teemant wrote:
Merizoc wrote:Having clean water is infinitely more important.


Report didn't say that it has impact on air or water quality.


Which report said that malarkey?
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Postby Teemant » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:39 am

Fortschritte wrote:
Teemant wrote:
Report didn't say that it has impact on air or water quality.


Which report said that malarkey?


It's written in the source. Maybe you should read it first.
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Sociobiology
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Postby Sociobiology » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:40 am

Teemant wrote:
Merizoc wrote:Having clean water is infinitely more important.


Report didn't say that it has impact on air or water quality.

t has a huge impact on water quality, And NY has a lot of protections for its water supply because they understand that is the lifeblood of a city.

Had you actually read the source in the OP you would note the study does find several connections to water contamination.
Last edited by Sociobiology on Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:41 am

Teemant wrote:
Merizoc wrote:Having clean water is infinitely more important.


Report didn't say that it has impact on air or water quality.


Not entirely correct.

From the OP:

The state’s report stopped short of definitively saying that fracking can impact air quality, water quality, and the health of those that live near it. But it said the majority of scientific literature showed there were enough questions about those potential impacts to warrant a ban.


So, the report didn't state it definitively - meaning that they didn't have the ultimate proof, but there were hints enough (majority of scientific literature) to warrant a ban as a form of precaution.
.

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Teemant
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Postby Teemant » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:41 am

Sociobiology wrote:
Teemant wrote:
Report didn't say that it has impact on air or water quality.

t has a huge impact on water quality, And NY has a lot of protections for its water supply because they understand that is the lifeblood of a city.


It hasn't been proven. Questions have been asked about it's impact on environment (as said in source) but there is no clear definitive answer.
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The Conez Imperium
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Postby The Conez Imperium » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:42 am

Teemant wrote:
Fortschritte wrote:
Which report said that malarkey?


It's written in the source. Maybe you should read it first.


Major Findings
Summarized below are some of the environmental impacts and health outcomes
potentially associated with HVHF activities:
• Air impacts that could affect respiratory health due to increased levels of
particulate matter, diesel exhaust, or volatile organic chemicals.
• Climate change impacts due to methane and other volatile organic chemical
releases to the atmosphere.
• Drinking water impacts from underground migration of methane and/or fracking
chemicals associated with faulty well construction.
• Surface spills potentially resulting in soil and water contamination.


No, the report didn't mention anything about air or water quality. Definitely not on pages 4-6.
Last edited by The Conez Imperium on Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:44 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Ratateague
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Postby Ratateague » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:42 am

Now, could Cuomo be bothered to pester O'Malley to follow suit?
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Fortschritte
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Postby Fortschritte » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:42 am

Teemant wrote:
Fortschritte wrote:
Which report said that malarkey?


It's written in the source. Maybe you should read it first.


I did. You're entirely wrong, as it says "they stopped short of saying that it has an affect on air and water quality, but they believe there are many questions about potential impacts."

Next time, read the source, instead of scanning over it, and hoping that you're right.
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Teemant
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Postby Teemant » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:42 am

Risottia wrote:
Teemant wrote:
Report didn't say that it has impact on air or water quality.


Not entirely correct.

From the OP:

The state’s report stopped short of definitively saying that fracking can impact air quality, water quality, and the health of those that live near it. But it said the majority of scientific literature showed there were enough questions about those potential impacts to warrant a ban.


So, the report didn't state it definitively - meaning that they didn't have the ultimate proof, but there were hints enough (majority of scientific literature) to warrant a ban as a form of precaution.


We can say that it's harmful impact to environment is speculation right now. I'm not denying that it might be harmful to environment but right now it isn't proven.
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Master Shake
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Postby Master Shake » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:42 am

Teemant wrote:
Fortschritte wrote:
Which report said that malarkey?


It's written in the source. Maybe you should read it first.



What part of mixing chemicals and sand with water don't you get?

Would you drink the product of hydrofracking if someone served you a glass of water after it was used in hydrofracking?
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Postby Teemant » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:44 am

Fortschritte wrote:
Teemant wrote:
It's written in the source. Maybe you should read it first.


I did. You're entirely wrong, as it says "they stopped short of saying that it has an affect on air and water quality, but they believe there are many questions about potential impacts."

Next time, read the source, instead of scanning over it, and hoping that you're right.


It says the believe. You know the meaning of word belive?
Last edited by Teemant on Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Fortschritte
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Postby Fortschritte » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:44 am

Teemant wrote:
Risottia wrote:
Not entirely correct.

From the OP:

The state’s report stopped short of definitively saying that fracking can impact air quality, water quality, and the health of those that live near it. But it said the majority of scientific literature showed there were enough questions about those potential impacts to warrant a ban.


So, the report didn't state it definitively - meaning that they didn't have the ultimate proof, but there were hints enough (majority of scientific literature) to warrant a ban as a form of precaution.


We can say that it's harmful impact to environment is speculation right now. I'm not denying that it might be harmful to environment but right now it isn't proven.


Its not mere speculation.
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Postby Fortschritte » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:45 am

Teemant wrote:
Fortschritte wrote:
I did. You're entirely wrong, as it says "they stopped short of saying that it has an affect on air and water quality, but they believe there are many questions about potential impacts."

Next time, read the source, instead of scanning over it, and hoping that you're right.


It says the belive. You know the meaning of word belive?


No, because that isn't a word.

But, I know what you mean, and I'll say yes, I know what believe means. And, that's why you're entirely wrong.
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Postby Sociobiology » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:46 am

Teemant wrote:
Sociobiology wrote:t has a huge impact on water quality, And NY has a lot of protections for its water supply because they understand that is the lifeblood of a city.


It hasn't been proven. Questions have been asked about it's impact on environment (as said in source) but there is no clear definitive answer.

from the OP study

"Water-quality Impacts
Studies have found evidence for underground migration of methane associated with
faulty well construction (Darrah, 2014; EPA, 2011). For example, a recent study
identified groundwater contamination clusters that the authors determined were due to
gas leakage from intermediate-depth strata through failures of annulus cement, faulty
production casings, and underground gas well failure (Darrah, 2014). Shallow methane migration
has the potential to impact private drinking water wells, creating safety
concerns due to explosions.Other studies suggest additional sources of potential water contamination, including
surface spills and inadequate treatment and disposal of radioactive wastes (Warner,
2013). A recent review paper presented published data revealing evidence for stray gas
contamination, surface water impacts, and the accumulation of radium isotopes in some
disposal and spill sites (Vengosh, 2014). One recent study also suggests that chemical
signals of brine from deep shale formations can potentially be detected in overlying
groundwater aquifers (Warner, 2012). These contaminants have the potential to affect
drinking water quality."

You'll never have conclusive proof with a new procedure, the evidence for water contamination however is huge.
Last edited by Sociobiology on Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Teemant
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Postby Teemant » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:47 am

Fortschritte wrote:
Teemant wrote:
It says the belive. You know the meaning of word belive?


No, because that isn't a word.

But, I know what you mean, and I'll say yes, I know what believe means. And, that's why you're entirely wrong.


Believe means that there is no proof but they think they know what happens.
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Postby Fortschritte » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:49 am

Teemant wrote:
Fortschritte wrote:
No, because that isn't a word.

But, I know what you mean, and I'll say yes, I know what believe means. And, that's why you're entirely wrong.


Believe means that there is no proof but they think they know what happens.


So, why wouldn't we ban hydofracking if there is strong reason to believe that it's harmful? It's reckless of you to say "Well, I know all reliable scientists say it's probably harmful, but until they prove it, let's raise the possibility of harming local communities in New York."
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Teemant
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Postby Teemant » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:51 am

Fortschritte wrote:
Teemant wrote:
Believe means that there is no proof but they think they know what happens.


So, why wouldn't we ban hydofracking if there is strong reason to believe that it's harmful? It's reckless of you to say "Well, I know all reliable scientists say it's probably harmful, but until they prove it, let's raise the possibility of harming local communities in New York."


Innocent until proven guilty (harming environment).
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Master Shake
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Postby Master Shake » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:51 am

Teemant wrote:
Fortschritte wrote:
No, because that isn't a word.

But, I know what you mean, and I'll say yes, I know what believe means. And, that's why you're entirely wrong.


Believe means that there is no proof but they think they know what happens.


I dare you to drink the product of hydrofracking...

put your money where your mouth is...
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