Personalization of Graves

[Ostroeuropa]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-30183870

A bid is being made for a law to protect tributes on children's graves after a bitter dispute between grieving parents and a Welsh council.

Families hit out after personal items were removed from their children's graves in Torfaen and sent to landfill tips in June.

Apologising, the council said it went to "significant effort" to tell residents.

The assembly's petitions committee was told the council was "heavy-handed".

Discussing the matter on Tuesday, Plaid Cymru AM for South East Wales Lindsay Whittle told the committee: "I can't understand why Torfaen was so bullish in their attitude towards them, this is a really sensitive issue and it must have been very distressing for the individuals concerned.

"I think clear policies are needed... I do think Torfaen council were very handed in this."

The committee agreed to send "significant and detailed" responses from the petitioners to Public Services Minister Leighton Andrews.

Evidence will be sent to a cross-party group for funerals and bereavement and a final decision will be made at a later date.

...

Nearly 2,000 people signed a petition for the Welsh government to bring in a Wales-wide law on what can be put in tribute on the graves of babies and young children.

Well, I figured it'll at least bring us out in interesting formations rather than the usual sides, so why not.

How do you think grave decorations should be regulated?
Should they be at all?

Also, apparently (Saw it on BBC news just now) the fairy lights and such on the kids grave got complaints from other visitors, hence why they acted to "Preserve the dignity of the cemetery."


On the one hand, walking into a cemetary and seeing a bunch of windmills and flashing lights or confetti everywhere or something would be pretty weird.
But then, it does help people cope with the deaths if they decorate the grave.

I just dunno on this one.

[Skappola]

The managers of the cementary should be able to keep the graveyard "dignified" and determined by their own culture. If you want confetti and windmills, then you'll have to give up the chance of being next to your favorite poet or a military officer.

[Ostroeuropa]

The managers of the cementary should be able to keep the graveyard "dignified" and determined by their own culture. If you want confetti and windmills, then you'll have to give up the chance of being next to your favorite poet or a military officer.

Unless, ofcourse, those people also like confetti and windmills. What do you mean by their own culture exactly?
Wouldn't that somewhat discriminate against minority groups? Or, do you mean, any cemetary can run itself how it wants to, within standards it chooses, and people choose the cemetary they like?

[Keyboard Warriors]

A lot of it comes down to liability. The cemetery trust will ultimately be held accountable for any injuries caused by people tripping over or otherwise injuring themselves on items left by graves; this may seem a trivial issue and no doubt that most people would not cause themselves any harm around something like flowers but a lawsuit is a lawsuit and there are some seriously stupid people in the world. Most importantly, the public cemetery is a cemetery for everybody and some general rules are required to preserve the community's desire for the environment which they'd like their cemetery to have.

[Ostroeuropa]

A lot of it comes down to liability. The cemetery trust will ultimately be held accountable for any injuries caused by people tripping over or otherwise injuring themselves on items left by graves; this may seem a trivial issue and no doubt that most people would not cause themselves any harm around something like flowers but a lawsuit is a lawsuit and there are some seriously stupid people in the world. Most importantly, the public cemetery is a cemetery for everybody and some general rules are required to preserve the community's desire for the environment which they'd like their cemetery to have.

Health and safety is a pretty compelling argument. It seems appropriate that it be particularly stringent in a cemetery, it would be pretty tragic if grave decorations caused a death.

[Skappola]

The managers of the cementary should be able to keep the graveyard "dignified" and determined by their own culture. If you want confetti and windmills, then you'll have to give up the chance of being next to your favorite poet or a military officer.

Unless, ofcourse, those people also like confetti and windmills. What do you mean by their own culture exactly?
Wouldn't that somewhat discriminate against minority groups? Or, do you mean, any cemetary can run itself how it wants to, within standards it chooses, and people choose the cemetary they like?

Basically, I mean that each cemetary should be able to run itself the way it likes, with people choosing the cemetary they like. People are always going to disagree on what they think is "dignified", or whether they care, so you can't have a global standard on what is allowed.

Also, I would personally love to be buried with windmills and confetti. A relative of mine wants me to set off fireworks when he dies!

[Nazis in Space]

Always, always make it a statue. Difficult to take away.

I rather liked the example of a statue made by a city administrator in the 19th century. Pissed with the city council, he commissioned a statue of a young boy with trousers down, displaying his naked arse in the direction of the town hall in a symbolic invokation of Götz von Berlichingen's most famous quote.

It's still standing on his grave.

The man is kind of a rolemodel for me, really. Trolling from beyond the grave, and he's nearing the two century mark, too.

[Ostroeuropa]

Unless, ofcourse, those people also like confetti and windmills. What do you mean by their own culture exactly?
Wouldn't that somewhat discriminate against minority groups? Or, do you mean, any cemetary can run itself how it wants to, within standards it chooses, and people choose the cemetary they like?

Basically, I mean that each cemetary should be able to run itself the way it likes, with people choosing the cemetary they like. People are always going to disagree on what they think is "dignified", or whether they care, so you can't have a global standard on what is allowed.

Also, I would personally love to be barried with windmills and confetti. A relative of mine wants me to set off fireworks when he dies!

You could have two basic categories and be done with it maybe.

Formal cemetaries and informal ones, where anything goes (Provided you only use your allotted amount of land.)
The formal ones would obviously be dependent on the traditional culture of the area.

[Empire of Narnia]

Nobody wants their cemetery to look like a garbage dump with a bunch of junk that has been rained on and blown over by the wind.

[The Borderline Borderlands]

here I'm from cemeteries double as public parks. And I think that's a pretty good way to handle things. I mean, we need all the recreational areas we can get, and at least to me there's something very human in chilling with a beer on a grave with a couple of friends while the kids play with the dog.

So I guess I'm a proponent for some fairly arbitrary limitations. Graves should be safe places to be, where people actually want to be and don't feel excluded.

[Kaztropol]

Okay, this is a subject I know about.

Here, in Scotland, maintenance of cemeteries comes under local council's Land Services, along with parks and other open spaces. That service is not one that there is a legal obligation to supply. So, with the current austerity policies, the budget for cemeteries maintenance is under a bit of pressure.

How cemeteries are usually maintained, the grasscutting regime attempts cutting the grass every two weeks, and there is usually a ride-on mowing machine to cut the bulk of the grass, with men with strimmers to strim down the grass between headstones where the mowing machines don't fit.

If you look at the picture in the article: http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/7 ... 515186.jpg

then there's a couple things I can tell you about that. See all those decorations ? They have to be moved out of the way, in order to strim the grass down. That is a laborious process.

One of the cemeteries here, has a few thousand graves. Most of them are just headstones. The newest section, has graves like the one in that picture. Lots of decorations. There's maybe 300 graves in the new section. That one new section takes 2 days to strim the grass down, including the moving and replacing of all the decorative objects. The other sections of the cemetery, it takes 8 days to strim the other 4000 or so graves.

A lot of the councils simply don't have the budget to maintain highly decorated graves.

So in most cases, they'll choose between:
1. Reducing frequency of maintenance, from a 2 week cycle to a 3 or 4 week cycle. People complain about how untidy the graves look.
2. Implementing restrictions on decorations, as in this example, reducing the workload.
3. Allowing decorations, with the caveat that that grave will not be maintained at public expense - you decorate it, you maintain it.

[Olerand]

Obviously it should be left to the cemetery's administration. But communal public cemeteries' headstones should always just be grey, or black, or such. No to circus cemeteries!

[Cetacea]

I'm a bit torn on this one. Luckily My great great grandmother and her cousins set a side a piece of land as a cemetery for us, so ours is a 'private cemetery,' where we can do what we like, and most people stick to dignified -some are standard whitewash concrete boxing, while others use natural stone (I live in an alpine area) and others polished wood. In the past 10 years or so however there are a few who have solar lights on them which has caused me to comment sometimes that the cemetery is starting to look like a neon disco. The windmills and butterflies are cool, but neon is icky!!!

Now when the Town was built, my grandfather and his cousins gave half of our cemetery to the Town council for public use, and a few years back the council also went in and cleaned up the graves in line with their policy that had designated it a 'lawn cemetery'. There was a huge furore about it, citing the same 'hurt' as op childrens toys had been taken away by council staff.

I actually supported the council in that case - the public who purchased the plot did so with the knowledge that it was a lawn cemetery. However the council did eventually soften its stance and has designated part of the cemetery to be lawn cemetery and the other part to be general memorials - which now features headstones in the shape of a stag, a wild pig and a rugby ball amongst other things. I appreciate the artistry of them and as they don't bother me too much (my house actually sits opposite the Lawn Cemetery section) its not a major. I have seen a grave done up with confetti and tinsel which was quite gauche and I wouldn't like to see that at home, but subdued artistry is all good in my opinion.

However if the person buying the plot, s aware that the plot is lawn only or has restrictions on grave coverings then they should have to stick with the agreement and not try and get the management to relent later.

If you want to have your own way - get your own cemetery

[Manisdog]

Thank god I will be cremated and my ashes will go into mother ganga, but I would like them to fertilize some fields, burying people is just disgusting.

[Sociobiology]

Thank god I will be cremated and my ashes will go into mother ganga, but I would like them to fertilize some fields, burying people is just disgusting.

as is burning perfectly good organs.

[Cetacea]

Thank god I will be cremated and my ashes will go into mother ganga, but I would like them to fertilize some fields, burying people is just disgusting.

all that gunk in the Ganga thats whats disgusting. And putting blood and bone in the soil is much better fertilizer:)

[Skappola]

Thank god I will be cremated and my ashes will go into mother ganga, but I would like them to fertilize some fields, burying people is just disgusting.

I'd rather donate my carcass, since it's far more efficient and useful. Anything is better than just burying the body, though.

[Manisdog]

Thank god I will be cremated and my ashes will go into mother ganga, but I would like them to fertilize some fields, burying people is just disgusting.

I'd rather donate my carcass, since it's far more efficient and useful. Anything is better than just burying the body, though.

It is disgusting to bury a body, just cruel.

[Skappola]

I'd rather donate my carcass, since it's far more efficient and useful. Anything is better than just burying the body, though.

It is disgusting to bury a body, just cruel.

And horrifically wasteful, especially since cemetaries are usually located on valuable land.

[Empire of Narnia]

Thank god I will be cremated and my ashes will go into mother ganga, but I would like them to fertilize some fields, burying people is just disgusting.

Isn't ganga marijuana? I don't think people fertilize fields with illegal drugs....

[Manisdog]

It is disgusting to bury a body, just cruel.

And horrifically wasteful, especially since cemetaries are usually located on valuable land.

Yep, best is to burn and scatter your ashes in a rice paddy

[Olerand]

It is disgusting to bury a body, just cruel.

And horrifically wasteful, especially since cemetaries are usually located on valuable land.

Hush! Do you know how much money we make off of tourists who come to visit cemeteries here? Do you know the famous people whose cute little tombs we exploit?

Think of the $$$.

[Manisdog]

And horrifically wasteful, especially since cemetaries are usually located on valuable land.

Hush! Do you know how much money we make off of tourists who come to visit cemeteries here? Do you know the famous people whose cute little tombs we exploit?

Think of the $$$.

That is even more disgusting, over here we don't worship gods, we worship ancestors but we have one temple somewhere in Mehwar to worship ancestors and not a grave

[Olerand]

Hush! Do you know how much money we make off of tourists who come to visit cemeteries here? Do you know the famous people whose cute little tombs we exploit?

Think of the $$$.

That is even more disgusting, over here we don't worship gods, we worship ancestors but we have one temple somewhere in Mehwar to worship ancestors and not a grave

Look bud, we need money. Also, who are we worshiping, what?

[Manisdog]

That is even more disgusting, over here we don't worship gods, we worship ancestors but we have one temple somewhere in Mehwar to worship ancestors and not a grave

Look bud, we need money. Also, who are we worshiping, what?

Do you have any respect for your ancestors ?