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Cadet Forces? Good or Bad

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United Kingdom of Kent
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Cadet Forces? Good or Bad

Postby United Kingdom of Kent » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:32 am

This question came to my mind a few days ago when I encountered a tourist who at remembrance day was shocked by the cadet forces at the parade, and this reminded me of a earlier occurrence during my own time in the Army Cadet force when I was confronted by a tourist from France I believe who couldn't get their mind around the idea of the cadet forces. The main point I can recall from it was mostly centred around her confusion of what the cadet forces did and what seemed a cultural difference between support for what the organisation teaches and promotes.

So I thought I would get the general consensus of Nationstates on this, does your own country have an equivalent of the British cadet forces and do you support the ideas it promotes.

I myself am highly supportive of the cadet forces, the way its run, the skills it teaches and the ethos it promotes. Pride, discipline and citizenship are more important then ever and a vital part of a community and of giving people the best chance in life, as well as working within society. I think in fact that the government should encourage the growth of all three service cadet forces into schools and the community.
Last edited by United Kingdom of Kent on Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Westerplatte
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Postby Westerplatte » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:34 am

Cadet forces are good. Teaches alot of good stuff.

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Laerod
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Postby Laerod » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:34 am

What are cadet forces?

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United Kingdom of Kent
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Postby United Kingdom of Kent » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:36 am

Laerod wrote:What are cadet forces?


Here is an example of one of the four you find in the United Kingdom.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Cadet_Force
Last edited by United Kingdom of Kent on Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Laerod
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Postby Laerod » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:42 am

United Kingdom of Kent wrote:
Laerod wrote:What are cadet forces?


Here is an example of one of the four you find in the United Kingdom.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Cadet_Force

The Army Cadet Force Association (ACFA) is a registered charity[3] that acts in an advisory role to the Ministry of Defence and other Government bodies on matters connected with the ACF.[4] The Army Cadet Force is also a member of The National Council for Voluntary Youth Services (NCVYS),[5] as an organisation with a strong focus on homosexual showering.

Oh dear! =O

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Creataris
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Postby Creataris » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:43 am

Laerod wrote:What are cadet forces?

UK cadet forces are a voluntary paramilitary organisation that organises itself into a military structure in a similar manner to the Scouts organisation but they use military ranks, shoot rifles and get to see fighter craft. They tend to be strict but many people enjoy going to the organisations for various reasons.

I myself support them though I've never been a part of a cadet force, I'm a Scout leader myself, though I hold the belief that we should reinstitute a national service and have the cadet forces as a supporting or preparatory organisation.
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:44 am

Laerod wrote:What are cadet forces?

Uniformed youth organisations themed towards the navy, the army, the Royal Marines, the air force, or the police.
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Postby L Ron Cupboard » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:44 am

Child soldiers are only bad in Africa right?
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The Afanisian Isles
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Postby The Afanisian Isles » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:45 am

I used to be in cadets. I've seen poorly-raised boys grow into responsible cadets overtime, and it's amazing what a week in open sea will do to you. Belgian cadets aren't what they used to be, so I quit when I was sixteen. We used to get subsidies from the department of defense but since the budget of national defense is being cut by a third I can only guess at the current state of the Royal Belgian Sea Cadet Corps.

But yeah, it's a good thing. I like the British and Canadian Cadets. Both very well-disciplined and down-to-earth. Did you know Canadian Cadets get paid?

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Postby Ifreann » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:45 am

L Ron Cupboard wrote:Child soldiers are only bad in Africa right?

They don't get uniforms.
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Postby Immoren » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:48 am

Obviously every functioning military needs its officers.
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:50 am

Immoren wrote:Obviously every functioning military needs its officers.

And if we learned anything from Ender's Game, it's that children make the best officers.
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Postby Ainin » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:53 am

Yeah, sure. Cadets are good, and there's really no evidence to the contrary. It teaches good citizenship, community values, and all that jazz.

The Afanisian Isles wrote:Did you know Canadian Cadets get paid?

You get paid for instructing/attending camps, not for everyday things.
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Postby Immoren » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:57 am

Ifreann wrote:
Immoren wrote:Obviously every functioning military needs its officers.

And if we learned anything from Ender's Game, it's that children make the best officers.


Children? Usually cadets are over 19 when they enroll into National Defense Academy...
...Sorry.
Wrong cadets.
:p
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discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

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The UK in Exile
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Postby The UK in Exile » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:58 am

United Kingdom of Kent wrote:This question came to my mind a few days ago when I encountered a tourist who at remembrance day was shocked by the cadet forces at the parade, and this reminded me of a earlier occurrence during my own time in the Army Cadet force when I was confronted by a tourist from France I believe who couldn't get their mind around the idea of the cadet forces. The main point I can recall from it was mostly centred around her confusion of what the cadet forces did and what seemed a cultural difference between support for what the organisation teaches and promotes.

So I thought I would get the general consensus of Nationstates on this, does your own country have an equivalent of the British cadet forces and do you support the ideas it promotes.

I myself am highly supportive of the cadet forces, the way its run, the skills it teaches and the ethos it promotes. Pride, discipline and citizenship are more important then ever and a vital part of a community and of giving people the best chance in life, as well as working within society. I think in fact that the government should encourage the growth of all three service cadet forces into schools and the community.


They can be good, it depends on who runs them. At their best they offer new experiences to children who wouldn't nessecarily have gotten opportunities to fly a glider or visit somewhere overseas. Poorly run, they're an opportunity for ex-forces members to feel big and important by banging on about the importance of drill. They are also, explicitly, a recruiting tool.
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:00 am

Ainin wrote:Yeah, sure. Cadets are good, and there's really no evidence to the contrary. It teaches good citizenship, community values, and all that jazz.

Do they, though? Or is that just a thing people say? Like, what about faffing about on a boat in uniform is good citizenship?


Immoren wrote:
Ifreann wrote:And if we learned anything from Ender's Game, it's that children make the best officers.


Children? Usually cadets are over 19 when they enroll into National Defense Academy...
...Sorry.
Wrong cadets.
:p

And that's why you haven't conquered Russia yet. Not enough kids in charge.
Last edited by Ifreann on Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby L Ron Cupboard » Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:04 am

Ifreann wrote:
L Ron Cupboard wrote:Child soldiers are only bad in Africa right?

They don't get uniforms.


They do get machetes.
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The UK in Exile
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Postby The UK in Exile » Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:05 am

Ifreann wrote:
Ainin wrote:Yeah, sure. Cadets are good, and there's really no evidence to the contrary. It teaches good citizenship, community values, and all that jazz.

Do they, though? Or is that just a thing people say? Like, what about faffing about on a boat in uniform is good citizenship?


Theres generally a recognition that if you want to do the fun stuff (Gliding for the Air Cadets, Sailing for the Sea Cadets, Join a different Cadet organization for the Army Cadets), you also have to muck in with the not so fun stuff. thats a lesson in social obligation right there.
"We fought for the public good and would have enfranchised the people and secured the welfare of the whole groaning creation, if the nation had not more delighted in servitude than in freedom"

"My actions are as noble as my thoughts, That never relish’d of a base descent.I came unto your court for honour’s cause, And not to be a rebel to her state; And he that otherwise accounts of me, This sword shall prove he’s honour’s enemy."

"Wählte Ungnade, wo Gehorsam nicht Ehre brachte."
DEFCON 0 - not at war
DEFCON 1 - at war "go to red alert!" "are you absolutely sure sir? it does mean changing the lightbulb."

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:09 am

The UK in Exile wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Do they, though? Or is that just a thing people say? Like, what about faffing about on a boat in uniform is good citizenship?


Theres generally a recognition that if you want to do the fun stuff (Gliding for the Air Cadets, Sailing for the Sea Cadets, Join a different Cadet organization for the Army Cadets), you also have to muck in with the not so fun stuff. thats a lesson in social obligation right there.

True enough.
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Olivaero
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Postby Olivaero » Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:13 am

As far as I understood they are just a more militarized version of the Scouts right? For career minded kids it's a good choice I guess and it's not like there's any obligation for them to carry on to full service so I don't really have a problem with them.
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The UK in Exile
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Postby The UK in Exile » Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:17 am

Olivaero wrote:As far as I understood they are just a more militarized version of the Scouts right? For career minded kids it's a good choice I guess and it's not like there's any obligation for them to carry on to full service so I don't really have a problem with them.


It would be slightly more accurate to say its a more modern version of the scouts. Scouting is designed to prepare people for military service circa 1908.
"We fought for the public good and would have enfranchised the people and secured the welfare of the whole groaning creation, if the nation had not more delighted in servitude than in freedom"

"My actions are as noble as my thoughts, That never relish’d of a base descent.I came unto your court for honour’s cause, And not to be a rebel to her state; And he that otherwise accounts of me, This sword shall prove he’s honour’s enemy."

"Wählte Ungnade, wo Gehorsam nicht Ehre brachte."
DEFCON 0 - not at war
DEFCON 1 - at war "go to red alert!" "are you absolutely sure sir? it does mean changing the lightbulb."

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Olivaero
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Postby Olivaero » Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:24 am

The UK in Exile wrote:
Olivaero wrote:As far as I understood they are just a more militarized version of the Scouts right? For career minded kids it's a good choice I guess and it's not like there's any obligation for them to carry on to full service so I don't really have a problem with them.


It would be slightly more accurate to say its a more modern version of the scouts. Scouting is designed to prepare people for military service circa 1908.

Yeah once upon a time it was, but Scouting or at least my experience of it was very far removed from military service even the 1908 version of it. It was more like outdoorsy school with a bit of half hearted religion.
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Krumbia
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Postby Krumbia » Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:24 am

Having been a member of one of the four cadet forces, the Combined Cadet Force, I thoroughly support the idea behind the organisation. Although I may well have been brainwashed by the Ministry of Defence's propaganda, which I find highly unlikely, the CCF provided me with a number of opportunities which I otherwise would not have had. I know it sounds rather clichéd, but the cadet forces made me the person I am today. It is, however, debatable whether or not that is a good thing.

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Greater Mackonia
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Postby Greater Mackonia » Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:30 am

Good for a certain type, yes.
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Patriarch
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Postby Patriarch » Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:35 am

I can tolerate them so long as they're entirely separated from schools.

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