by Arkolon » Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:31 am
by Infected Mushroom » Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:50 am
by Ashmoria » Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:54 am
by Avenio » Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:57 am
Arkolon wrote:Compared to 35 years ago, today’s 1% contribute almost three times as much in Britain and the US, where the UK budget relies on the British 1% for 28% of income tax receipts, and the US budget 46%.
by Dumb Ideologies » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:01 am
by Galloism » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:03 am
by Arkolon » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:40 am
Infected Mushroom wrote:I don't know about the exact math, but I think the rich should pay as much tax as necessary to completely eliminate poverty, homelessness
and lack of access to basic human rights like healthcare.
The ideal tax system is whenever this goal is reached.
by Arkolon » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:41 am
Ashmoria wrote:basically what IM said.
when we get back to full employment and wages go up, the amount of tax paid by the middle class will go up. if they do particularly well we can raise taxes on the middle class as part of eliminating inequality.
until then taxes are like bank robbing--you go where the money is.
by Galloism » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:44 am
Arkolon wrote:The ideal tax system is whenever this goal is reached.
Around the 0% mark, I'm guessing, then?
by Arkolon » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:46 am
Avenio wrote:Arkolon wrote:Compared to 35 years ago, today’s 1% contribute almost three times as much in Britain and the US, where the UK budget relies on the British 1% for 28% of income tax receipts, and the US budget 46%.
Considering that the relative income of the top 1% earners are many times richer than they were in the 70's, I can't say I'm shedding all that much tears for them. They're making hundreds of times more money than the bottom 10% of earners - why shouldn't they pay a proportional share?
by Arkolon » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:47 am
by Galloism » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:48 am
by The Liberated Territories » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:49 am
by Galloism » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:50 am
The Liberated Territories wrote:The ideal tax rate is 0%, of course. And not just for the ultrarich or super poor.
by The Liberated Territories » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:53 am
by Galloism » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:54 am
by Arkolon » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:54 am
Galloism wrote:The principle behind a progressive tax is that tax is levied on disposable income.
A certain amount of income is necessary for survival - this should not be taxed. This is also why we have certain exemptions, deductions, and credits for dependents.
As income increases, the amount of affordable luxuries also increases, and the tax level should also increase relative to that.
by The Liberated Territories » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:55 am
Galloism wrote:Tyrinth wrote:No. It's simply not funny.
A zero percent tax rate would leave us without courts, military, police, fire, safe food, medical care for the elderly and poor, unemployment benefits, and all the other things necessary for our first world economy to thrive.
Calling a 0% tax rate "ideal" must mean you are from a universe totally different from ours where there's no such thing as an externiality.
by Arkolon » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:55 am
by Arkolon » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:56 am
Galloism wrote:Tyrinth wrote:No. It's simply not funny.
A zero percent tax rate would leave us without courts, military, police, fire, safe food, medical care for the elderly and poor, unemployment benefits, and all the other things necessary for our first world economy to thrive.
Calling a 0% tax rate "ideal" must mean you are from a universe totally different from ours where there's no such thing as an externiality.
by Avenio » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:58 am
Arkolon wrote:Avenio wrote:
Considering that the relative income of the top 1% earners are many times richer than they were in the 70's, I can't say I'm shedding all that much tears for them. They're making hundreds of times more money than the bottom 10% of earners - why shouldn't they pay a proportional share?
35 years ago was closer to the 80s than to the rest of the 70s, and the 80s were a time when income inequality grew at a much faster rate than before. In 1979, the Gini index in the US was around 0.36, but sure.
by Galloism » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:58 am
Arkolon wrote:Galloism wrote:The principle behind a progressive tax is that tax is levied on disposable income.
A certain amount of income is necessary for survival - this should not be taxed. This is also why we have certain exemptions, deductions, and credits for dependents.
A bracket where anyone making under a certain amount with a tax rate of 0% makes the tax system functionally progressive, even if everyone above that mark is taxed at the same, flat rate. Some sort of NIT/expanded EITC would also be an apt substitute to an exponentially-progressive tax system.
As income increases, the amount of affordable luxuries also increases, and the tax level should also increase relative to that.
Wouldn't a VAT on luxuries be a better alternative, then, too? Someone making $35,000 would spend, say, about $12,000 on rent, $10,000 on necessities and the rest on affordable luxuries: the $13,000 with a 30% VAT would correspond to be a functional 11% tax on income, which is somewhat acceptable, no?
by Skappola » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:59 am
by Galloism » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:59 am
Arkolon wrote:Galloism wrote:A zero percent tax rate would leave us without courts, military, police, fire, safe food, medical care for the elderly and poor, unemployment benefits, and all the other things necessary for our first world economy to thrive.
Calling a 0% tax rate "ideal" must mean you are from a universe totally different from ours where there's no such thing as an externiality.
A 0% income tax. The word "income" seems to be what you're missing, here.
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