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Fat taxes, soda taxes... what to do about obesity?

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Atlanticatia
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Fat taxes, soda taxes... what to do about obesity?

Postby Atlanticatia » Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:54 pm

Obesity is a growing trend throughout the world.

- In the United States in particular, 35% of adults are obese. 69% are overweight or obese.
- Around 1975-1980, the obesity rate was 15%.
Image

- We're the fattest OECD country. The average OECD country has an obesity rate of about 18%. We're nearly 2x as obese as the average Western developed country.
- Obesity costs the health system (direct medical costs) in the US about $190bn a year, or nearly 21% of all medical spending in the US.
- About $60bn of that cost is absorbed by Medicaid or Medicaid, costing taxpayers quite a bit. The rest is reflected in higher insurance premiums and strains on health care facilities.
- If we just kept obesity rates at current levels and stopped them from increasing, we'd save $550bn over the next two decades.
- By 2030, if we don't do something, obesity rates will reach 51%.
- Obesity rates vary quite a bit by region. The south and Midwest are fatter, while the Northeast and West are less obese.
- More than 300,000 preventable deaths are caused by the obesity epidemic each year.

So...obesity is a huge problem, and it's skyrocketing out of control. In 30 years, the obesity rate more than doubled, and the majority of the population could be obese in ~15 years. We're spending hundreds of billions of dollars on medical expenses, but even more is lost in lost productivity, obesity education programs, etc. It's a public health crisis and an epidemic.

Now, the question asks, what do we do? Should we do anything? Are taxes and regulations unfair and contrary to personal responsibility?

There's been everything suggested: from fat taxes, to soda taxes, to soda size bans, to calorie listing, to increased physical education, mass health education campaigns, etc. It poses a difficult question: how do we strike the balance between combating a public health epidemic, and ensuring we don't come off as too much of a nanny state?

Fat taxes and soda taxes could work. "One U.S. study reviewed by Mytton and his colleagues found a 35% tax on sugar-sweetened drinks — $0.45 per drink — led to a 26% decline in sales. Based on their analysis of modeling studies, they concluded a 20% tax on sugary drinks in the U.S. would reduce obesity levels by 3.5% — from 33.5% to 30% among adults. A similar tax in the U.K. could cut up to 2,700 heart disease deaths a year."
"Taxing a wide range of unhealthy foods or nutrients is likely to result in greater health benefits than would accrue from more limited taxation; that said, the strongest evidence favors a tax on sugar-sweetened beverages.
Taxation needs to be at least 20% to have a significant effect on obesity and cardiovascular disease.
Taxes on unhealthy foods should ideally be combined with subsidies on healthy foods such as fruit and vegetables."

So, what does NSG think? How do we combat the obesity epidemic?

Obesity is an epidemic. If we don't intervene now, the costs will be huge - socially, medically, and economically. Do we want to live in a nation where a majority of people are not just overweight, but obese? That would have huge effects on our economic productivity, increase health costs exponentially, cause even more preventable deaths, and would be overall unhealthy and bad for society.

I think that we definitely need to have a massive public health campaign. Treat obesity like we treat smoking. We need a massive education campaign, we need to make sure healthy eating is drilled into kids' heads in school.
Recess should be restored in all public schools. It'd have many physical and social benefits.
Also, we need healthy food in schools. Tighter regulations are needed. But we don't just need healthy food, we need good food. We need kids to have access to school lunches like the ones served in many European nations. We should ban sodas and sugary drinks in schools.

We also need a universal health care program, and when we achieve that, we will have more of a mandate to take down obesity. We should fund free nutritionist visits. We should increase grants for things like gym memberships. Make it easier for people, especially the poor, to work towards a healthier lifestyle.

We should institute a soda tax. As the article said, a 35% tax on sugar-sweetened drinks, just $0.45/drink, would reduce drink sales by 26%. A 20% soda tax would drop the US obesity rate by 3.5%. The tax should be an excise tax, so the higher price is reflected on the shelf or menu, not at the cash register. Now, simply sustaining the 35% obesity rate would save $550bn over 20 years. Imagine what a reduction in the obesity rate would save. There should be increased tax rate for 'super-sized' drinks, too.

As far as fat taxes go, I'm not sure if these would be a good idea, but they're definitely worth looking at. I think that a fat tax might be too complicated, as fat isn't always a bad thing. It definitely could have some merit, if we could find a way to implement it that targeted only 'bad fats' (i.e. fast food, etc)

So, yes to the soda tax, but 'maybe' to the fat tax. There should be some sort of in depth study done by the govt about it.

All revenues from taxation should go back into healthcare and education. More specifically, into things like universal pre-k, low-income health programs, etc as the poor may be impacted by any taxes. The spending of these revenues should be spent as progressively as possible to make up for any regressivity.

We should look at possibly subsidizing healthier foods, like fresh fruits and vegetables.

Fast food chains should be required to post calorie amounts on menus. This is already law in many cities and states. (NYC for example)

All states should also be given a block grant by the federal government for the reduction of obesity. States would be able to use it as they see fit - they could create obesity-reduction measures adapted to their local areas. For example, a health advertising campaign for someone in New York would be quite different than one in Mississippi.

We need more cycling paths and sidewalks on roads. We need more public transportation. We need to redevelop our infrastructure in both the short and long term to emphasize measures that are both healthier and more environmentally friendly/sustainable. Cycling has become insanely popular in countries like Denmark and Holland that have designed their infrastructure around it and public transportation.

We should regulate how junk food companies market to kids. We stopped tobacco companies from marketing to kids, so we should regulate how junk food companies market to kids. (McDonalds, I'm looking at you)

I know some of this might seem drastic, but it's necessary. Even if we could maintain the 35% obesity rate, that'd be a huge success - both medically and economically.
Combining both personal responsibility (by increasing health education, etc), consumer protection (marketing regulations), health-friendly transportation, and direct government action like soda taxes will be a well-rounded approach to reduce obesity.
Last edited by Atlanticatia on Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:56 pm

Labor camps are excellent ways to burn fat.
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Allet Klar Chefs
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Postby Allet Klar Chefs » Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:56 pm

Mandatory car -> bike scrappage scheme. Beijing in the eighties had it right.

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Cata Larga
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Postby Cata Larga » Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:58 pm

Oh, you know... proper education, encouraging parents to get their kids on healthy diets from youth... the least invasive ways to do it...
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Threlizdun
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Postby Threlizdun » Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:58 pm

Fat taxes and soda taxes would place a massive burden on the poor. We need to work to lower the prices of healthy foods, not further punish those that can't afford them.
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Pandeeria
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Postby Pandeeria » Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:59 pm

Give more subsidies to healthy food, and tax stuff like candy, baked goods, pop, etc.
Lavochkin wrote:Never got why educated people support communism.

In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???

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Postby Cyrisnia » Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:59 pm

Atlanticatia wrote:Obesity is a growing trend throughout the world.

- In the United States in particular, 35% of adults are obese. 69% are overweight or obese.

ayyyyyy
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The Scientific States
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Postby The Scientific States » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:01 pm

A fat tax and soda tax would hurt the poor. What we should do is find ways to make healthier, non processed food cheaper and more widely available to those with low incomes. One way of doing this is to add plenty of more healthy foods as available options on food stamps, and to educate our youth into making healthy choices.
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Pandeeria
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Postby Pandeeria » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:01 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:Labor camps are excellent ways to burn fat.


Grade A advice right here, folks.
Lavochkin wrote:Never got why educated people support communism.

In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???

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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:01 pm

Cyrisnia wrote:
Atlanticatia wrote:Obesity is a growing trend throughout the world.

- In the United States in particular, 35% of adults are obese. 69% are overweight or obese.

ayyyyyy

When we look at that statistic, we have to remember that BMI (the Index used to calculate this) isn't the most accurate thing in the world.
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Pandeeria
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Postby Pandeeria » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:02 pm

The Scientific States wrote:A fat tax and soda tax would hurt the poor. What we should do is find ways to make healthier, non processed food cheaper and more widely available to those with low incomes. One way of doing this is to add plenty of more healthy foods as available options on food stamps, and to educate our youth into making healthy choices.


Consequences mean more then rewards. A mix between the two would be the best idea.
Lavochkin wrote:Never got why educated people support communism.

In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???

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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:02 pm

Pandeeria wrote:
United Marxist Nations wrote:Labor camps are excellent ways to burn fat.


Grade A advice right here, folks.

Not sure which is worse; that the first thing I thought of was that, or that I am right.
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.

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Atlanticatia
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Postby Atlanticatia » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:02 pm

The Scientific States wrote:A fat tax and soda tax would hurt the poor. What we should do is find ways to make healthier, non processed food cheaper and more widely available to those with low incomes. One way of doing this is to add plenty of more healthy foods as available options on food stamps, and to educate our youth into making healthy choices.


The regressivity is my one issue with the taxes.

I think that if the revenues are spent on, say, programs for low-income people's health and education, or to subsidize healthy fruits and vegetables, then it makes up for the regressivity.
Last edited by Atlanticatia on Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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South Pacific Republic
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Postby South Pacific Republic » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:02 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:Labor camps are excellent ways to burn fat.


This guy knows what's up

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Cata Larga
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Postby Cata Larga » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:02 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:
Cyrisnia wrote:ayyyyyy

When we look at that statistic, we have to remember that BMI (the Index used to calculate this) isn't the most accurate thing in the world.

Considering it also considers muscular people "overweight" or even "obese", yeah...
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Spoder
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Postby Spoder » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:02 pm

Obesity sucks, but there are a number of causes.

Really, it just comes down to making the right lifestyle choices for your body.

Just because I can eat ice cream all day without gaining very much weight at all does not mean you can.
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WestRedMaple
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Postby WestRedMaple » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:03 pm

What to do about it? Eat well and live an active lifestyle.

Trying to tax it away shows no likelihood of success, and is really just more of the laziness which has caused this to be an epidemic in the first place.

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Theorett
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Postby Theorett » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:03 pm

Gluttony should be punishable by heavy fines and maybe a whipping.
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Pandeeria
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Postby Pandeeria » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:03 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:
Pandeeria wrote:
Grade A advice right here, folks.

Not sure which is worse; that the first thing I thought of was that, or that I am right.


Who cares? Let's just get building them already.
Lavochkin wrote:Never got why educated people support communism.

In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???

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The Scientific States
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Postby The Scientific States » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:03 pm

Atlanticatia wrote:
The Scientific States wrote:A fat tax and soda tax would hurt the poor. What we should do is find ways to make healthier, non processed food cheaper and more widely available to those with low incomes. One way of doing this is to add plenty of more healthy foods as available options on food stamps, and to educate our youth into making healthy choices.


The regressivity is my one issue with the taxes.

I think that if the revenues are spent on, say, programs for low-income people's health and education, or to subsidize healthy fruits and vegetables, then it makes up for the regressivity.


I suppose. As long as something is created to counter the tax, I don't strongly oppose it.
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Atlanticatia
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Postby Atlanticatia » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:04 pm

Cata Larga wrote:
United Marxist Nations wrote:When we look at that statistic, we have to remember that BMI (the Index used to calculate this) isn't the most accurate thing in the world.

Considering it also considers muscular people "overweight" or even "obese", yeah...


It's relatively accurate, though, considering the obesity rate didn't go from 15% to 35% in 20 years because everyone started working out. It's because we got, well, fat.

Most doctors accept BMI as a decent way of measuring it.
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Cyrisnia
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Postby Cyrisnia » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:04 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:
Cyrisnia wrote:ayyyyyy

When we look at that statistic, we have to remember that BMI (the Index used to calculate this) isn't the most accurate thing in the world.

awwwwww
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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:04 pm

Pandeeria wrote:
United Marxist Nations wrote:Not sure which is worse; that the first thing I thought of was that, or that I am right.


Who cares? Let's just get building them already.

Good point. Hell, we can solve our homelessness, old infrastructure, and our obesity problem all in one go.
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.

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The Scientific States
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Postby The Scientific States » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:04 pm

Theorett wrote:Gluttony should be punishable by heavy fines and maybe a whipping.


Wrong time period.
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Union Of Canadorian Socialists Republic
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Postby Union Of Canadorian Socialists Republic » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:04 pm

Theorett wrote:Gluttony should be punishable by heavy fines and maybe a whipping.

No. My stomach, my rules.
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