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Behavioural Economics [OOC | Interest | Nation-Business RP]

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Arkolon
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Behavioural Economics [OOC | Interest | Nation-Business RP]

Postby Arkolon » Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:23 am

Behavioural Economics

Welcome to Behavioural Economics, a slightly-different, alternative RP that uses an interesting approach to role-playing in the Portal to the Multiverse. Behavioural Economics is a somewhat world-building, character-building, text-intensive roleplay, where players will take on certain key roles in the economy of a few different countries. Some players will be big businesses, some small businesses, some exporters, importers, heads of states, opposition politicians, central bank executives, economists, investors, stock brokers, consumers, ministers of finance, and more. Each action undertaken by one group, or even by a single player, will hugely undermine the economic cycle of the game, and will force players to competitively re-evaluate their positions as their characters. For instance, a country that produces many consumer goods for another country might impose an embargo for whatever reason, and the suffering country’s consumers will be poorer, and the whole of the economy would shrink as a result. Players in that country would have to mitigate these effects through whatever means they can.

An investor will not be directly affected by a grain import ban, for instance, but resource-consuming businesses and industries will, which will have a direct effect on the investor. To avoid awkward situations where one economic agent suddenly loses all of his money in a matter that has no direct relevance to him, we will operate with the expanded economic circular flow chart, shown here:

Image


As you can see from Fig. 12.5, some economic agents have direct effects on other economic agents, and all economic agents have indirect effects on every other economic agent. The government raising personal income tax will result in less household income as a direct effect, but then less consumption in the product market, which means less income for businesses as indirect effects, even if businesses were not directly harmed at all by the government raising household taxes.

By the way, banks seem to be out of the flow chart here. If you can spot the arrow going down from households called “savings” and the inflow to businesses called “investments”, these two things are connected by a non displayed economic agent called commercial banks, who often have investment banks alongside them. This is the diagram for the banking sector, which includes the central bank:

Image


What will be more interesting about Behavioural Economics is that we will not focus on one single economy, but three or four different macroeconomies. There will be four countries, four central banks, four governments, four currencies, four budgets, and many other, smaller agents to go with them in their respective countries. This will add a whole other factor of international trade and international diplomacy on top of the national economy, complicating decisions and tasks.

There is no mission objective, as the RP is largely live-and-let-live. Your only help is supply and demand, and price signals will not be mathematically calculated, but you, as the supplier agent, will have to set a price signal in accordance with what you see to be demand. If you notice that, as a business, consumers have less income and thus less demand, you will have to lower your price in order to maximise profits. If you put your price too low, you will lose money. If you put your price too high, no one will buy what you produce. It is always important to keep an eye on the whole economy as your economic agent to maximise benefits. As governments, you will have to choose which fiscal policy to employ during a recession; as a central bank, you will have to choose between different monetary policies; as a business man, you will have to set prices and choose your imports wisely; as an investor, you will have to make sure your investments do not go to waste.

There is no easy way to ride the harsh waves of the economic cycle that will always find its way into your economy. Many agents will go bust, but many more will shine in the competitive world of international finance.

Playable Characters (per country):
1. Ruling party in government and cabinet members.
2. Opposition party in government and shadow cabinet members.
3. Central bank and board members.
4. Commercial banks.
5. Investment banks.
6. Businesses.
7. Investors.
8. Traders.
9. Lower-income households.
10. Middle-income households.
11. Higher-income households.
12. Reporters.

There are two parties in each country: a ruling party and a shadow party. One party will be centre-right and will root for less taxation and smaller government, but the centre-left party will root for higher taxation and more government services. The party that is in power changes every four years depending on what the households vote on. The ruling party gets to conduct international diplomacy, draw up budgets, pass laws, and controls the head of state of a country. The shadow party gets to voice their opinions on these things and actively debates the ruling party on the course it is taking. The shadow party has to listen to the households (the voters) and debate the ruling party with that advice in order to get elected come the next election time.

The central bank and its board is changed every four years, and both parties have to choose which player to put as central bank executive. The central bank sets interest rates, can conduct quantitative easing policies, and loans money continuously to commercial and investment banks.

Commercial banks and investment banks are joined together. A commercial bank takes the savings from its customers (the households) and gives it to the investment bank. The investment bank then invests this money in businesses at home or abroad, and the return on this goes to paying the savings interests to the households. If an investment bank makes rotten investments, then the commercial bank will lose its money, households will take their money out of the banks and create a bank run, which will harm the economy greatly. The government should aim to regulate the banking sector, and make decisions on whether or not to bail out banks that made rotten investments.

Businesses are the heart of the economy. Businesses are the traditional supply-side of the two-sided economic flowchart, next to households. Businesses import resources from the country or from around the world, buy labour, sell their produce, and then use their profit to expand their business. If the businesses of a country start going faulty, then the whole economy will be put at risk. It is safe to say, I think, that without businesses, there is no economy.

There are six types of businesses put into two categories: you have a small business (under 250 employees) and big businesses (over 250 employees). You then have “producer” businesses which buy low-income labour, “manufacturer” businesses that buy middle-income labour, and “service” businesses that buy high-income labour. Businesses don’t produce specific products, but they either produce units of “produce”, “manufacture”, or “service” depending on what kind of business it is. Each employee produces a hundred (100) units of each a year. This helps standardise international demand and supply of different goods and services.

A “producer” makes products out of thin air, and sells these products to “manufacturers”. Manufacturers make products out units of produce, and sell their goods to “service” businesses. Service businesses make products out of what the manufacturers produce, and they sell their goods and services to households.

Investors are like investment bankers except they are venture capitalists that don’t belong to any institution. They invest in businesses that they like, and if they are lucky enough they might make a lot of money out of it. They are very similar to Traders, except they operate and invest in a different way.

Traders are the supply and demand of stocks in the national stock exchange. All big businesses are registered on the stock exchange, and these big businesses have to give all of their profit to their shareholders. If a big business loses out on profit, then traders will sell their shares and the share price will begin to plummet, which may cause a stock market crash if things get too severe. Conversely, if a business makes more profit, then Traders will buy more of that stock, the business will get more investment money, and when that bubble pops, there might be a stock market crash. Small businesses can grow into big businesses, but small businesses have the pleasure of keeping 100% of their profits, as none of it goes to shareholders.

Different tiers of income-earning households work in their respective businesses. This gives households income, and they have to survive on this income by buying the “service” goods from “service” businesses. If they cannot afford their “service” products, they will have to take out a loan or be forced to live in poverty. The government should make sure there is as little poverty as possible, either by creating government programs or by making the economy more business-friendly to spur economic activity. Households are the demand-side heart of the two-sided economic flowchart.

The population is divided into four parts. 10% is disregarded as all the business-owners, traders, investors, bankers, reporters, governments, politicians, presidents, and everything else. The other 90% is comprised of households. If there is no demand for middle-income jobs, then middle-income households will be unemployed, for example. Population grows steadily at 5% a year due to immigration and childbirth factors. If the population starts at 10,000,000 and there are three players for households, each player will represent 3,000,000 people living in about 1,000,000 households (3 people per household). If there aren’t enough businesses to put that many people into work, then the leftover people will be unemployed.

Reporters work for news agencies, and report on the economic well-being of their country and the world. They play a minor role in the economy and aren’t really economic agents, but are important players that transmit economic messages from one part of the economy to other parts of the economy.


Some of these economic agents play very minor roles, and I doubt that this RP will be popular enough to house four times this number of people needed, so I will allow up to four characters per person.

Well, this is still an interest thread, so I won’t continue any further. If you’re interested in playing Behavioural Economics or if you have any questions, feel free to ask here!
"Revisionism is nothing else than a theoretic generalisation made from the angle of the isolated capitalist. Where does this viewpoint belong theoretically if not in vulgar bourgeois economics?"
Rosa Luxemburg

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Arkolon
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Postby Arkolon » Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:40 pm

So I see this didn't gather much interest so far, and I know it hasn't been 24 hours but this isn't a bump. I'd just like to say that I let my imagination run wild and wrote a timeline of events down, playing as every character in four different countries. It took some time, and I only made it past 29 financial quarters (seven years and a quarter).


I started off assuming each country started from scratch, and a tiny population of 1,100 people, and a couple of investors took loans from banks outside of the game to start off a few businesses. GDP per capita floated at around $11,000 for some time, until one business was seized by the centre-left government for mistreating workers to squeeze in more profit. To pay for the state industry, huge taxes had to be levied because no investor wanted to put money into it, GDP contracted a few times, private industry acquired monopoly status in one of the countries, the state set out to inquire about the monopoly's legitimacy, the company broke down naturally as partners quarreled after a government investigation, and the population grew steadily. Over time, as businesses got bigger, a stock exchange was created, and the businesses started looking abroad. Enter a second country, businesses start expanding there with loans from banks back in the first country (helped by the correct monetary policy to allow more money to enter into circulation), the centre-right government welcomes them, because the centre-right government is more business-friendly the shareholders pressure the companies into setting up shop there for medium-skilled jobs which would make the first country comparatively poorer, so the first country's centre-left government started setting up tariffs for their low-skilled goods produced in their nation, this weakened industry and made both countries comparatively poorer, the state doesn't try giving easy cash to the companies in their country because it would cost too much money, enter a third country that essentially becomes a neo-imperialist economic colony of the second country as businesses flood there. The first country holds its elections, the poor households want action to be taken to secure their jobs, the centre-left country becomes an interventionist hard-left government, sets up an embargo against the second country but because the second country now relies on the third country for its important exports this has no effect but shrinks the size of industry in their own country as they have nowhere to sell to, the businesses fail, the country prints as much money as possible to pay for war and nationalises all industry, a huge war breaks out, enter a fourth country to refuge all the investors and businesses, that country gets richer, and then I stopped.

I had quite the fun with this scenario. I didn't know where else for it to go as I'm fairly terrible at war roleplays, but I'm sure you get the gist of it now. It looks like a lot of numbers and it sounds really complicated, but Behavioural Economics really is a casual, live-and-let-live RP where you are in your own little world as your own economic agent, and you react to the direct actions that are given to you. Even if you don't mean to do something, your direct action could become a huge, disastrous indirect action on another part of the economy. The numbers are almost entirely behind-the-scenes, and all that matters to you, as a player, is the direct action that is imposed on you. There is some mention of numbers, sure, but only enough to keep the game realistic. My little roleplay went to war really quickly because the ideas really were one-sided, but I doubt the governments will all be so narrow-minded, and they will use as much diplomacy as possible to preserve their national industries and conserve their economic wellbeing.

There's no application yet, but if you want there to be, I'd really appreciate it if you posted in the thread. Even if you don't want to play or if you're just looking around to see what a thread with such out-of-place words in the title is doing in PTTM, it would make me glad if you posted your thoughts.
"Revisionism is nothing else than a theoretic generalisation made from the angle of the isolated capitalist. Where does this viewpoint belong theoretically if not in vulgar bourgeois economics?"
Rosa Luxemburg

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Arkolon
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Postby Arkolon » Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:14 am

I perfected the central bank mechanism of the game and tried playing around starting from scratch in regards to the monetary base. Investors took out loans from banks, banks took out loans from the central bank, and then the bank keeps on running from its customers' deposits and from loans from the central bank. This created monetary phenomena such as inflation, and the strength of the economy became dependent on correct monetary policy and key interest rate, a pro-business environment, and perpetually growing wages, as higher wages meant more bank deposits and cheaper loans for investors. There was one banking crisis at one point, but that's a minor fault.

I think I'm going to remove the playable position of a business owner and make investors run businesses by themselves, maybe even raise the "big business" threshold to 2,500. The reason for this is that I kind of want to start with each country having a sizable population of around 100,000 to 1,000,000 instead of 1,000, and when a single business has 250 employees (which is very easily attainable) it would create far too many listings on the stock exchange for our small player population.

Instead, investors and investment bankers will have to use their money to fund start-up businesses, and until their business reaches big business status the profit will be shared between the investors. I should remind those that are reading this and those that are interested in being investors that some of this money should be kept aside to grow the company in the future. When their company reaches big business status and they conduct an IPO, Traders will receive parts of the profit instead of just the investors. It will be interesting to see how many investors will stay on board or do some insider-trading when their company hits 2,500 employees...

We won't start with developed countries, unfortunately, but we will go with a storyline where four countries declare independence or something. The investors will have to create small businesses at first and grow them, and as the businesses grow so does the economy, and then so does the state. The state will have to deficit spend a lot during the beginning because the tax rates will rake in next-to-nothing, and if you want to grow business, weakening your only source of strength isn't very logical. This will make things doubly as interesting, as countries will have a lot of debt when they become more developed. And hey, I wonder if we'll get enough Austrian School libertarians to reform the country to instate a gold standard or a free banking system.

I'm going to start writing up proper introductions and tutorials for each playable character right now. It should be up by, like, tomorrow? Hopefully.
"Revisionism is nothing else than a theoretic generalisation made from the angle of the isolated capitalist. Where does this viewpoint belong theoretically if not in vulgar bourgeois economics?"
Rosa Luxemburg

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Independent Gredavcat
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Postby Independent Gredavcat » Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:02 am

I may be interested, although it does seem a little complicated if you don't ind me saying.

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Arkolon
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Postby Arkolon » Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:29 pm

Independent Gredavcat wrote:I may be interested, although it does seem a little complicated if you don't ind me saying.

That's good to hear. Which position(s) would you be interested in taking up?
"Revisionism is nothing else than a theoretic generalisation made from the angle of the isolated capitalist. Where does this viewpoint belong theoretically if not in vulgar bourgeois economics?"
Rosa Luxemburg

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Postby Independent Gredavcat » Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:43 pm

Arkolon wrote:
Independent Gredavcat wrote:I may be interested, although it does seem a little complicated if you don't ind me saying.

That's good to hear. Which position(s) would you be interested in taking up?

I would be interested in playing as a reporter.

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Arkolon
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Postby Arkolon » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:02 am

Independent Gredavcat wrote:
Arkolon wrote:That's good to hear. Which position(s) would you be interested in taking up?

I would be interested in playing as a reporter.

Interesting choice. Would you be interested in taking up any other position, too?
"Revisionism is nothing else than a theoretic generalisation made from the angle of the isolated capitalist. Where does this viewpoint belong theoretically if not in vulgar bourgeois economics?"
Rosa Luxemburg

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Independent Gredavcat
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Postby Independent Gredavcat » Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:26 am

Arkolon wrote:
Independent Gredavcat wrote:I would be interested in playing as a reporter.

Interesting choice. Would you be interested in taking up any other position, too?

Perhaps The Inpower government although admittedly I would need a bit of guidance from yourself.

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Arkolon
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Postby Arkolon » Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:44 pm

Independent Gredavcat wrote:
Arkolon wrote:Interesting choice. Would you be interested in taking up any other position, too?

Perhaps The Inpower government although admittedly I would need a bit of guidance from yourself.

I'm writing up a tutorial now, so hopefully it won't be all too difficult. The base population of a country is 10,000 people and 51 parliamentarians. The game starts with 26 in favour of the ruling party and 25 against, so fairly balanced. The ruling party will have to appoint a central bank chairman, and controls the president, the cabinet, all the ministers, all the international affairs, all military and national affairs, all economic and fiscal affairs-- everything. The ruling party also needs to make sure to listen to voters so it stays in power, too.

Is there anything you'd like to know about the game? I admit it does look like it's very confusing and I came on too strongly with my over-enthusiasm, there, but I'm willing to answer any question you could possibly throw at me.
"Revisionism is nothing else than a theoretic generalisation made from the angle of the isolated capitalist. Where does this viewpoint belong theoretically if not in vulgar bourgeois economics?"
Rosa Luxemburg

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The New Sea Territory
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:50 pm

Arkolon! Welcome to P2TM, I don't think I've seen you here. I'm interested....could I play as a worker cooperative?
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Postby Arkolon » Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:03 pm

The New Sea Territory wrote:Arkolon! Welcome to P2TM, I don't think I've seen you here. I'm interested....could I play as a worker cooperative?

PTTM was my most-posted-in subforum until I went inactive and came back with formed political opinions, which is when General took over.

Funny, I never really thought of it myself of extending this economic framework, which is obviously rooted in capitalistic sentiment, into the realm of socialist and anarchist theory. Of course you can set up your own worker's cooperative! You'd still have to start it out as a lone "investor" (such a terribly capitalistic word for worker's cooperative) and take a loan from a bank that will be paid back by the revenue generated by the cooperative, but absolutely nothing is stopping you from setting up cooperatives, communes, or even trying to instate anarchy. Although that last one will be very hard to do, as the government could easily cut off all of your accounts and stuff, but yeah.

You can also take up one or two more positions if you're willing to. Glad you found this interesting enough to post in it.
"Revisionism is nothing else than a theoretic generalisation made from the angle of the isolated capitalist. Where does this viewpoint belong theoretically if not in vulgar bourgeois economics?"
Rosa Luxemburg

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The New Sea Territory
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:18 am

A few questions:

Are we going to use real or fictional countries?
IRL Currencies?
How will natural resources' locations and supply be determined?
Would the various countries differ in their economic policies and systems?
How will national elections be held?
Could a war break out, which would create wartime economies?
As cheesy as it sounds, what about bank robberies? Which also brings up large-scale fraud, "ponzi schemes", money laundering and other illegal activity?
Lastly, should we work on an application?

I've thought about creating a mining cooperative or maybe an manufacturing one, specifically automobiles.
| Ⓐ | Anarchist Communist | Heideggerian Marxist | Vegetarian | Bisexual | Stirnerite | Slavic/Germanic Pagan | ᛟ |
Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore

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Arkolon
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Postby Arkolon » Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:00 pm

The New Sea Territory wrote:A few questions:

Are we going to use real or fictional countries?

No, I don't think we ought to. The process of nation creation will be very similar to the OOC process of deciding where and how the next round of NSG Senate is going to be played, if you're still following that.

IRL Currencies?

Each currency is de facto printed by the central bank of each fictional country, unless legislation decides otherwise, so we would use fictitious money for fictitious countries. Monetary inflation and commodity inflation will be dependent on the supply of money, and the creation of new business will equally be very dependent on how this central bank operates. Printing too little money chokes business and hampers growth, yet printing too much money is creating far too much "easy credit", which is actually how the Great Depression occurred.

The value of one currency against another, however, is largely decided by how Traders decide to value certain currencies.

How will natural resources' locations and supply be determined?

I didn't go overboard on the details of how resources are consumed in the product market (shown in the OP's flowchart), and natural resources weren't ever on my list. I assumed that some goods were made out of thin air with no real production costs, and I kept the production-manufacturing-retail process very simple. Essentially, a low-skill company produces units of "produce", or tier-1 goods. A middle-skill company uses tier-1 goods to manufacture tier-2 goods. A high-skill company uses tier-2 goods to finish up and sell to the consumer tier-3 final consumption goods. Each working person needs about 3 of these each financial quarter, or twelve a year (one a month) in order to survive. If you can afford two, then your "quality of life" is 2.00. If you can afford three, then it's 3.00, and so on and so forth. The money that is not spent, ie the decimals after your quality of life, goes to your bank account as savings.

Supply of tier-1 goods will be determined by how many tier-1 companies there are in a country. As a country gets richer, it starts to create tier-2 and tier-3 factories. If a government wants their society to be self-sustainable, then the government should pressure investors to keep a constant supply of each tier of companies. But if there is absolute free-trade and free-market, then some countries will be tier-1 countries, some tier-2, some tier-3, but salaries in each country will be fundamentally different. If Ricardo was right about globalisation, then we should see the market correct itself to offer tier-1 workers large salaries.

Would the various countries differ in their economic policies and systems?

Very much so! The ruling party can submit any legislation they want, and whatever they say goes. If the over two thirds of the people, however, want their government to be ousted, then ousted they shall be, and the opposition party will take over. Whole systems can be overrun and edited, too, either by the ruling party or by the people.

How will national elections be held?

There are three players playing three tiers of household income groups (high, medium, and low). Each player gets 9 "votes", and gives some of these votes to either party depending on how highly they think of them. If the low-income people feel screwed over by the centre-right government, or whatever, then the player representing them should offer fewer votes to that party and more votes to the other party. 9 x 3 is 27, meaning that there will have to be a clear winner, with no possibility of a draw.

EDIT: Political parties don't need to follow a set rule of centrism, by the way. The centre-left party can be overrun by communists (or, at least, that's what the politicians bribed them with), and the centre-right party can be overrun by libertarians or conservatives.

Could a war break out, which would create wartime economies?

Definitely! I'm actually placing bets behind the scenes as to how long peace will last when NS players are in power of their own country.

As cheesy as it sounds, what about bank robberies? Which also brings up large-scale fraud, "ponzi schemes", money laundering and other illegal activity?

If the market is wholly unregulated, and businessmen are as evil as The Guardian wants us to think, then some investors ultimately have an incentive to be fraudulent or operate "ponzi" schemes. The government, however, will probably take care of that very quickly.

EDIT: Yeah, bank robberies (if the bank in question is alright with it and it's not godmodding) might be accepted. Although commercial banks would only really have customers' money to have robbed, and if we're working on a small enough scale, tightening the supply of bank deposits will shrink their capacity for investment, which will hurt the whole economy, really.

Lastly, should we work on an application?

If you're interested in playing the game, I guess you could starting drafting an idea as to who or what you're going to play as, yeah.

I've thought about creating a mining cooperative or maybe an manufacturing one, specifically automobiles.

Tier-2 goods that would +1 the quality of life to whoever could afford it. Sounds like a plan. Would the profits be shared amongst workers? Just saying, some of it might need to be used paying the bank back for a short while.
Last edited by Arkolon on Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Revisionism is nothing else than a theoretic generalisation made from the angle of the isolated capitalist. Where does this viewpoint belong theoretically if not in vulgar bourgeois economics?"
Rosa Luxemburg

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The New Sea Territory
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:28 pm

Arkolon wrote:Each currency is de facto printed by the central bank of each fictional country, unless legislation decides otherwise, so we would use fictitious money for fictitious countries. Monetary inflation and commodity inflation will be dependent on the supply of money, and the creation of new business will equally be very dependent on how this central bank operates. Printing too little money chokes business and hampers growth, yet printing too much money is creating far too much "easy credit", which is actually how the Great Depression occurred.

The value of one currency against another, however, is largely decided by how Traders decide to value certain currencies.


Will IRL currencies, such as the USD or Euro, even be existent in the IC at all?

Definitely! I'm actually placing bets behind the scenes as to how long peace will last when NS players are in power of their own country.


War-time markets are so radically different from regular ones. If a war broke out, it would pit businesses against each other more than the actual nations, and the arms manufacturers and defense contractors would make massive profits.

Tier-2 goods that would +1 the quality of life to whoever could afford it. Sounds like a plan. Would the profits be shared amongst workers? Just saying, some of it might need to be used paying the bank back for a short while.


How the profits would be utilized would be democratically managed through consensus decision making, so yes. Of course, some of that will be used to slowly pay back the bank, but since there would be no boss or owner, and all the workers have an equal share in the cooperative, how fast that is paid back and what else the company decides to do (expand, upgrade machinery, etc) would be voted on as well. The company would be self-managed by the workers.
| Ⓐ | Anarchist Communist | Heideggerian Marxist | Vegetarian | Bisexual | Stirnerite | Slavic/Germanic Pagan | ᛟ |
Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore

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Arkolon
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Postby Arkolon » Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:15 pm

The New Sea Territory wrote:
Arkolon wrote:Each currency is de facto printed by the central bank of each fictional country, unless legislation decides otherwise, so we would use fictitious money for fictitious countries. Monetary inflation and commodity inflation will be dependent on the supply of money, and the creation of new business will equally be very dependent on how this central bank operates. Printing too little money chokes business and hampers growth, yet printing too much money is creating far too much "easy credit", which is actually how the Great Depression occurred.

The value of one currency against another, however, is largely decided by how Traders decide to value certain currencies.


Will IRL currencies, such as the USD or Euro, even be existent in the IC at all?

We might use the Universal Standard Dollar (USD) for reference, but otherwise no, just fictional countries.

Definitely! I'm actually placing bets behind the scenes as to how long peace will last when NS players are in power of their own country.


War-time markets are so radically different from regular ones. If a war broke out, it would pit businesses against each other more than the actual nations, and the arms manufacturers and defense contractors would make massive profits.

More importantly, the army size would have to grow massively, and that would take men out of the capable category, and because they would still have to be paid and there is less tax revenue, the government would have to severely put itself into debt. I wonder if NS would allow corporatocratic rule; big business in bed with big government...
"Revisionism is nothing else than a theoretic generalisation made from the angle of the isolated capitalist. Where does this viewpoint belong theoretically if not in vulgar bourgeois economics?"
Rosa Luxemburg

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The Almighty Bob
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Postby The Almighty Bob » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:08 pm

This looks amazing. Any suggestions for getting started?

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Arkolon
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Postby Arkolon » Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:35 pm

The Almighty Bob wrote:This looks amazing. Any suggestions for getting started?

Well, more people would be ideal. I guess we're just going to wait a little bit, see if this catches on.
"Revisionism is nothing else than a theoretic generalisation made from the angle of the isolated capitalist. Where does this viewpoint belong theoretically if not in vulgar bourgeois economics?"
Rosa Luxemburg

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Ralnis
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Postby Ralnis » Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:13 pm

This seems quite a learning experience and also quite difficult to me, but I love the idea and worth giving it a shot.
This account must be deleted. The person behind it is a racist, annoying waste of life that must be shunned back to whatever rock he crawled out from.

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The Almighty Bob
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Postby The Almighty Bob » Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:49 pm

Arkolon wrote:
The Almighty Bob wrote:This looks amazing. Any suggestions for getting started?

Well, more people would be ideal. I guess we're just going to wait a little bit, see if this catches on.

Yeah. Kinda sucks that more people haven't seen this.

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Arkolon
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Postby Arkolon » Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:14 am

Ralnis wrote:This seems quite a learning experience and also quite difficult to me, but I love the idea and worth giving it a shot.

It only appears difficult when we look at the entire society as a whole. In reality, you would only be controlling one economic agent (four max.), and you would perform relatively small and simple tasks every quarter (every turn). Your somewhat small actions play causal roles in the actions of everyone else. If you own a company, you should balance out your profit margins in the event of a new tax on your company, say, which is an action causally pivoted by the government. As a result, you may need to fire people or offer your products at higher prices, which may do harm to the economy in turn. Next, households would have a smaller purchasing power (a "cost-of-living crisis"), and would buy less from other companies, and so on and so forth.

Is there any particular role that interests you at the moment?
"Revisionism is nothing else than a theoretic generalisation made from the angle of the isolated capitalist. Where does this viewpoint belong theoretically if not in vulgar bourgeois economics?"
Rosa Luxemburg

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Arkolon
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Postby Arkolon » Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:15 am

The Almighty Bob wrote:
Arkolon wrote:Well, more people would be ideal. I guess we're just going to wait a little bit, see if this catches on.

Yeah. Kinda sucks that more people haven't seen this.

Really does.

Are you interested in playing a certain role yet, by the way?
"Revisionism is nothing else than a theoretic generalisation made from the angle of the isolated capitalist. Where does this viewpoint belong theoretically if not in vulgar bourgeois economics?"
Rosa Luxemburg

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The Almighty Bob
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Postby The Almighty Bob » Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:17 am

Arkolon wrote:
The Almighty Bob wrote:Yeah. Kinda sucks that more people haven't seen this.

Really does.

Are you interested in playing a certain role yet, by the way?

Perhaps an investment bank or a business.

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Arkolon
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Postby Arkolon » Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:48 am

The Almighty Bob wrote:
Arkolon wrote:Really does.

Are you interested in playing a certain role yet, by the way?

Perhaps an investment bank or a business.

That would be needed and helpful, so good.

Ought we start brainstorming on countries? We only need four, and we'd need currencies, flags, parties, etc. Maybe all of you can start brainstorming on your ideas right now, too.
"Revisionism is nothing else than a theoretic generalisation made from the angle of the isolated capitalist. Where does this viewpoint belong theoretically if not in vulgar bourgeois economics?"
Rosa Luxemburg

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The Almighty Bob
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Postby The Almighty Bob » Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:54 am

Arkolon wrote:
The Almighty Bob wrote:Perhaps an investment bank or a business.

That would be needed and helpful, so good.

Ought we start brainstorming on countries? We only need four, and we'd need currencies, flags, parties, etc. Maybe all of you can start brainstorming on your ideas right now, too.

I'm thinking one communist, one capitalist, one libertarian or some bollocks, and one...that's all I got.

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Arkolon
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Postby Arkolon » Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:04 am

The Almighty Bob wrote:
Arkolon wrote:That would be needed and helpful, so good.

Ought we start brainstorming on countries? We only need four, and we'd need currencies, flags, parties, etc. Maybe all of you can start brainstorming on your ideas right now, too.

I'm thinking one communist, one capitalist, one libertarian or some bollocks, and one...that's all I got.

It would depend on what the players wanted, but that's a nice outline of the playable countries. We're also going to have external, non-playable countries with fixed armies, economies, growth, and opinions that change depending on how events in playable countries unfold. We might just start with blank-slate government types, and let the ruling parties (decided by the households) come up with how to run the country. Aye, it means the whole nation could go to shit in two days, but I'm sure P2TM players are more co-operative than that.

Also, out of interest, Almighty Bob -> Bob Boblo? You might be someone I once knew.
"Revisionism is nothing else than a theoretic generalisation made from the angle of the isolated capitalist. Where does this viewpoint belong theoretically if not in vulgar bourgeois economics?"
Rosa Luxemburg

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