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Pink Jails, a solution?

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Hairless Kitten II
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Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Hairless Kitten II » Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:25 am

Image
Image
Image
Image

Three county inmates in the jail here lay on their bunks, not saying much.

They wore pink jumpsuits and pink slippers, and one was wrapped in pink sheets. They were surrounded by pink bars and pink walls.

They were not comfortable.

Despite the cramped condition of the tiny jail, the inmates said sitting there was better than working outside, where they might be seen by people they know. Using pink uniforms in a pink jail is a small step to deter inmates from ever wanting to spend more time in the Mason County Jail, which might be getting too old to operate, said Sheriff Clint Low.

"The county would have more inmate labor without them," said one inmate, who did not want to be identified. "I'm not going outside in these things. It's a good deterrent because I don't want to wear them anymore."

"You can make that two," another inmate said from a different cell.

"You can probably make it three or four," the inmate added.

That's exactly Low's point.

Low bought the pink jumpsuits soon after taking office in 2005 and painted the jail pink about eight months ago. The jumpsuits are to keep inmates from coming back to jail, and the pink walls are designed to keep tempers and emotions cool in a jail that is tiny by today's standards.

Even if it helps a little, keeps just a few inmates from returning to the Mason County Jail, Low said, it's a success.

Mason County, with about 3,800 residents, is about 100 miles southeast of San Angelo. The jail is in Mason, the county seat.

Low got the idea of pink jumpsuits from a sheriff in Arizona, Joe Arpaio, who bought pink boxers to keep inmates from stealing the underwear and other clothing. In Mason, Low dyed the jumpsuits and slippers pink, and the color later bled to sheets, underwear and other articles during washings.

Low, who was a deputy in Mason before being elected sheriff, estimated the re-offense rate in the county is down 70 percent since he switched to pink jumpsuits for the inmates. He also said there have been no fights between inmates in the jail since it was painted.

"I wanted to stop re-offenders," Low said. "They don't want to wear them. Working inmates get a choice to work outside or sit inside, and some choose to sit inside because they don't want people to see them. They would rather stay upstairs."

The jail, built in 1894, is a historical site, and Low said he doesn't want to do anything to take away from its historical significance. In fact, it might be a better museum than a jail, he said.

So if another sheriff is elected, he or she can simply repaint the walls.

"It's just an easy step that will hopefully make some progress," Low said.

The Mason County Jail is clean and secure, he said. But it's also old, and it's tiny, Low said.

He believes the county needs a new jail, while some county officials have said the cost would simply be more than the rural county can afford.

The Mason County Jail is among the oldest working jails in the state. It has a capacity of five inmates — four males and a female — and, on Friday, was at capacity, with three more Mason inmates staying at the Comanche jail for $35 per inmate per day. Comanche is about 100 miles northeast of Mason.


Source:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/ ... 7390.shtml

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llXPtNGE ... r_embedded

It was in the media some time ago, but still a good concept.

I don't know the details. Maybe those criminals really commit fewer crimes inside the county, but maybe also moved to another county...

Anyway, I like the idea.
Last edited by Hairless Kitten II on Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:51 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Natapoc
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Re: Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Natapoc » Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:36 am

The US jails about 2% of it's population. Larger then any other country in the world. Most of these people are non violent and a very large number only committed crimes against themselves (ie drug use.) Most are also people of color at a rate not consistent with reported crimes.

The US also has high false conviction rates due to a system that rewards prosecutors for the number of cases they win rather then the number of actual guilty people they put behind bars.

I would not expect that most people in this jail tend to commit crimes much more often then the average person anyway.

Trying to humiliate them further probably won't solve anything.

edit: I do kinda like them more then normal jail colors though. The color looks much more happy.
Last edited by Natapoc on Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Hairless Kitten II
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Re: Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Hairless Kitten II » Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:41 am

Natapoc wrote:The US jails about 2% of it's population. Larger then any other country in the world. Most of these people are non violent and a very large number only committed crimes against themselves (ie drug use.) Most are also people of color at a rate not consistent with reported crimes.

The US also has high false conviction rates due to a system that rewards prosecutors for the number of cases they win rather then the number of actual guilty people they put behind bars.

I would not expect that most people in this jail tend to commit crimes much more often then the average person anyway.

Trying to humiliate them further probably won't solve anything.


It's indeed a light form of humiliation. But if it prevents serious crimes, then I'm all in. A punishment is always a difficult matter to assess.

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Neocaridia
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Re: Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Neocaridia » Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:45 am

Cruel and unusual anyone?

Cruel and unusual punishment is a statement implying that governments shall not inflict suffering or humiliation on the condemned as punishment for crimes, regardless of their degree of severity.

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Natapoc
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Re: Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Natapoc » Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:51 am

Neocaridia wrote:Cruel and unusual anyone?

Cruel and unusual punishment is a statement implying that governments shall not inflict suffering or humiliation on the condemned as punishment for crimes, regardless of their degree of severity.


Unusual for sure. I don't know about cruel or not. But if the practice is challenged I think we should insist that the court that rules on it wear pink including the judge for 3 days leading up to the trail ;) Make the whole courtroom pink too.

Somehow I actually like the color compared to regular dull green/gray of most jails.
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Hairless Kitten II
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Re: Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Hairless Kitten II » Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:52 am

Neocaridia wrote:Cruel and unusual anyone?

Cruel and unusual punishment is a statement implying that governments shall not inflict suffering or humiliation on the condemned as punishment for crimes, regardless of their degree of severity.


Locking them up is cruel too.

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Lucky Bicycle Works
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Re: Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Lucky Bicycle Works » Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:54 am

Neocaridia wrote:Cruel and unusual anyone?

Cruel and unusual punishment is a statement implying that governments shall not inflict suffering or humiliation on the condemned as punishment for crimes, regardless of their degree of severity.


*raises hand*

It is used as punishment, and the supervisor's smug "they're less likely to come back" shows that he knows it.

In fact, it's worse than that. Low thinks it is good that the inmates stay inside a "tiny and old" jail instead of exercising the option to go out and work.

"I wanted to stop re-offenders," Low said. "They don't want to wear them. Working inmates get a choice to work outside or sit inside, and some choose to sit inside because they don't want people to see them. They would rather stay upstairs."


What a fucking cowboy.
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Hairless Kitten II
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Re: Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Hairless Kitten II » Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:57 am

Lucky Bicycle Works wrote:
Neocaridia wrote:Cruel and unusual anyone?

Cruel and unusual punishment is a statement implying that governments shall not inflict suffering or humiliation on the condemned as punishment for crimes, regardless of their degree of severity.


*raises hand*

It is used as punishment, and the supervisor's smug "they're less likely to come back" shows that he knows it.

In fact, it's worse than that. Low thinks it is good that the inmates stay inside a "tiny and old" jail instead of exercising the option to go out and work.

"I wanted to stop re-offenders," Low said. "They don't want to wear them. Working inmates get a choice to work outside or sit inside, and some choose to sit inside because they don't want people to see them. They would rather stay upstairs."


What a fucking cowboy.


You forgot to quote the interesting parts of that fucking cowboy:

Low, who was a deputy in Mason before being elected sheriff, estimated the re-offense rate in the county is down 70 percent since he switched to pink jumpsuits for the inmates. He also said there have been no fights between inmates in the jail since it was painted.
Last edited by Hairless Kitten II on Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Lucky Bicycle Works
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Re: Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Lucky Bicycle Works » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:01 am

Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Neocaridia wrote:Cruel and unusual anyone?

Cruel and unusual punishment is a statement implying that governments shall not inflict suffering or humiliation on the condemned as punishment for crimes, regardless of their degree of severity.


Locking them up is cruel too.


Locking people up (in safe and decent conditions, though, and with rehabilitative and educational options) is pretty much unavoidable. Sweet reason only gets you so far, and for some people the real prospect of punishment is necessary to keep them from committing serious crimes.

Jail is meant to be punishment. Of course it is cruel. The real acid test is whether it is "unusual" ... because that points to Revenge rather than Deterrence being the reason for the treatment. We should all be suspicious when a jail governor starts getting 'creative' with punishments ... it suggests to me a Revenge agenda.
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Lucky Bicycle Works
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Re: Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Lucky Bicycle Works » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:04 am

Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Lucky Bicycle Works wrote:
Neocaridia wrote:Cruel and unusual anyone?

Cruel and unusual punishment is a statement implying that governments shall not inflict suffering or humiliation on the condemned as punishment for crimes, regardless of their degree of severity.


*raises hand*

It is used as punishment, and the supervisor's smug "they're less likely to come back" shows that he knows it.

In fact, it's worse than that. Low thinks it is good that the inmates stay inside a "tiny and old" jail instead of exercising the option to go out and work.

"I wanted to stop re-offenders," Low said. "They don't want to wear them. Working inmates get a choice to work outside or sit inside, and some choose to sit inside because they don't want people to see them. They would rather stay upstairs."


What a fucking cowboy.


You forgot to quote the interesting parts of that fucking cowboy:

Low, who was a deputy in Mason before being elected sheriff, estimated the re-offense rate in the county is down 70 percent since he switched to pink jumpsuits for the inmates. He also said there have been no fights between inmates in the jail since it was painted.


Executing them instead would have cut the re-offence rate by 100%.

The ends justify the means. Don't they ?
Lucky Bicycle Works, previously BunnySaurus Bugsii.
"My town is a teacher.
Oh, trucks and beers and memories
All spread out on the road.
Oh, my town is a leader of children,
To where Caution
Is a Long Wide Load"

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Hairless Kitten II
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Re: Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Hairless Kitten II » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:06 am

Lucky Bicycle Works wrote:
Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Neocaridia wrote:Cruel and unusual anyone?

Cruel and unusual punishment is a statement implying that governments shall not inflict suffering or humiliation on the condemned as punishment for crimes, regardless of their degree of severity.


Locking them up is cruel too.


Locking people up (in safe and decent conditions, though, and with rehabilitative and educational options) is pretty much unavoidable. Sweet reason only gets you so far, and for some people the real prospect of punishment is necessary to keep them from committing serious crimes.

Jail is meant to be punishment. Of course it is cruel. The real acid test is whether it is "unusual" ... because that points to Revenge rather than Deterrence being the reason for the treatment. We should all be suspicious when a jail governor starts getting 'creative' with punishments ... it suggests to me a Revenge agenda.


I agree that jail time is unavoidable for some criminals. But in reality they often don't get rehabilitative & educational options. Often they are locked in a cage with too many people. I would call that not humane.

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Hairless Kitten II
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Re: Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Hairless Kitten II » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:08 am

Lucky Bicycle Works wrote:
Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Lucky Bicycle Works wrote:
Neocaridia wrote:Cruel and unusual anyone?

Cruel and unusual punishment is a statement implying that governments shall not inflict suffering or humiliation on the condemned as punishment for crimes, regardless of their degree of severity.


*raises hand*

It is used as punishment, and the supervisor's smug "they're less likely to come back" shows that he knows it.

In fact, it's worse than that. Low thinks it is good that the inmates stay inside a "tiny and old" jail instead of exercising the option to go out and work.

"I wanted to stop re-offenders," Low said. "They don't want to wear them. Working inmates get a choice to work outside or sit inside, and some choose to sit inside because they don't want people to see them. They would rather stay upstairs."


What a fucking cowboy.


You forgot to quote the interesting parts of that fucking cowboy:

Low, who was a deputy in Mason before being elected sheriff, estimated the re-offense rate in the county is down 70 percent since he switched to pink jumpsuits for the inmates. He also said there have been no fights between inmates in the jail since it was painted.


Executing them instead would have cut the re-offence rate by 100%.

The ends justify the means. Don't they ?


I hope you smell the difference between the death penalty and wearing pink.

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Dimoniquid
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Re: Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Dimoniquid » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:09 am

They'll get beat up!!

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Cerubus
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Re: Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Cerubus » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:18 am

If they don't want to wear the pink outfits or sit in their pink little cells then don't commit the crimes. Simple and easy. This is not cruel and unusual punishment, it is however a form of reverse psychology. In most standard jails the prisoners are catered to like hotel guests, in some states the prisons MUST provide cable TV to the prisoners.

Your in for a CRIMINAL OFFENSE, why should you have more freedoms than someone who is a LAW ABIDING citizen? They really need to bring back the work chain gangs in every state, there is plenty of things that need doing in every city that minor offenders can do and get their sentences reduced quickly or dismissed completely after X amount of hours of hard work, but this is seen as "cruel and unusual punishment" by soft hearted liberal weenies.

Pink Jails, no big deal.


Read up on Tent City in Arizona I think it was the same guy as the pink jail too.

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Lucky Bicycle Works
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Re: Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Lucky Bicycle Works » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:27 am

There could be an aspect of synaesthetics in the pink theme. Colours are not just symbolic, they affect mood even without a symbolic role like "pink is for girls and gays.' Personally I find pink very unpleasant unless it is attracting attention to something which is worth looking at (a nice body) and I think it's because to me it is a flesh-tone. Being in a pink environment is distracting because from the corner of my eye, I seem to always be in the presence of naked bodies.

The principle of painting the jail a particular colour, or having coloured jail clothing, I do not reject outright. The environment should discourage violence, and encourage introspection, education, and other good habits which will help the inmates overcome the bad habits which got them in jail in the first place. If the colour scheme helps create such an environment, it is worth considering.

That doesn't seem to be the reason. It's apparently intended to humiliate and socially isolate the jail inmates. And Low's "estimate" of re-offence rates should be taken with a grain of salt, since it was based on a sample of FIVE inmates (the capacity of the jail) for EIGHT months ... that's barely even enough for the court process.
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Oh, trucks and beers and memories
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Oh, my town is a leader of children,
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Tubbsalot
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Re: Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Tubbsalot » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:29 am

Cerubus wrote:This is not cruel and unusual punishment, it is however a form of reverse psychology.

You have no idea what reverse psychology is, do you.
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Lucky Bicycle Works
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Re: Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Lucky Bicycle Works » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:33 am

Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Lucky Bicycle Works wrote:
Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Lucky Bicycle Works wrote:
Neocaridia wrote:Cruel and unusual anyone?

Cruel and unusual punishment is a statement implying that governments shall not inflict suffering or humiliation on the condemned as punishment for crimes, regardless of their degree of severity.


*raises hand*

It is used as punishment, and the supervisor's smug "they're less likely to come back" shows that he knows it.

In fact, it's worse than that. Low thinks it is good that the inmates stay inside a "tiny and old" jail instead of exercising the option to go out and work.

"I wanted to stop re-offenders," Low said. "They don't want to wear them. Working inmates get a choice to work outside or sit inside, and some choose to sit inside because they don't want people to see them. They would rather stay upstairs."


What a fucking cowboy.


You forgot to quote the interesting parts of that fucking cowboy:

Low, who was a deputy in Mason before being elected sheriff, estimated the re-offense rate in the county is down 70 percent since he switched to pink jumpsuits for the inmates. He also said there have been no fights between inmates in the jail since it was painted.


Executing them instead would have cut the re-offence rate by 100%.

The ends justify the means. Don't they ?


I hope you smell the difference between the death penalty and wearing pink.


Your argument is apparently "it's an OK thing to do because it reduces re-offence rates" (for which you just take the cowboy's word) and my answer is "that is an ends justifies the means claim, and a dodge on whether the punishment is cruel and unusual."

If you're going to be so shallow about it, yeah, you'll get reductio ad absurdum done on your shallow argument.

If "it works as punishment" is the only reason for using a particular punishment, then damn straight. The death penalty would work better than making the inmates wear pink, and would therefore be a better option.
Lucky Bicycle Works, previously BunnySaurus Bugsii.
"My town is a teacher.
Oh, trucks and beers and memories
All spread out on the road.
Oh, my town is a leader of children,
To where Caution
Is a Long Wide Load"

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Newsan
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Re: Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Newsan » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:38 am

So...wait. After all these discussions about giving us real detterents, like public floggings, the death penalty, etc. This article comes along and suggests that all we've ever needed is a splash of pink paint?

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Vault 10
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Re: Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Vault 10 » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:41 am

Actually I like the idea. Treating them like little gay kids can help reduce the prestige of being in prison among their colleagues.
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Vault 10
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Re: Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Vault 10 » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:42 am

Newsan wrote:So...wait. After all these discussions about giving us real detterents, like public floggings, the death penalty, etc. This article comes along and suggests that all we've ever needed is a splash of pink paint?

You see, at least it's kawaii.


Hello Kitty Prisons FTW!
Last edited by Vault 10 on Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Hairless Kitten II
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Re: Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Hairless Kitten II » Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:07 am

Newsan wrote:So...wait. After all these discussions about giving us real detterents, like public floggings, the death penalty, etc. This article comes along and suggests that all we've ever needed is a splash of pink paint?


More jails are doing a pink paint job and it seems it is working.

I'm a little interested if the former convicts really committed less crimes after their release or that they just moved to another county or state and perform their profession in the new area.

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Lucky Bicycle Works
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Re: Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Lucky Bicycle Works » Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:14 am

Vault 10 wrote:Actually I like the idea. Treating them like little gay kids can help reduce the prestige of being in prison among their colleagues.


And you aren't awkward at all about punishment being based on their own prejudices against "looking gay" ?

Isn't that "cruel and unusual" because as a punishment it affects them each differently? Some might have no phobias about wearing pink, and be little hurt by it (and be able to do prison work in the public eye -- a positive advantage over those who are ashamed to be seen dressed that way, and arguably a reward since their work will be more in demand, and they will get better options.) Some might actually enjoy being all in pink, even if they wouldn't do it by choice.

It's a pretty random punishment which depends on the person punished reacting in a homophobic way to a clothing colour. "Random" == "cruel and unusual."
Lucky Bicycle Works, previously BunnySaurus Bugsii.
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Oh, trucks and beers and memories
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Oh, my town is a leader of children,
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Lucky Bicycle Works
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Re: Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Lucky Bicycle Works » Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:19 am

Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Newsan wrote:So...wait. After all these discussions about giving us real detterents, like public floggings, the death penalty, etc. This article comes along and suggests that all we've ever needed is a splash of pink paint?


More jails are doing a pink paint job and it seems it is working.

I'm a little interested if the former convicts really committed less crimes after their release or that they just moved to another county or state and perform their profession in the new area.


You are still relying on the Sheriff's "estimate."

Have you made any attempt to verify the truth of it? Is it not based on a ridiculously small sample over too short a time, and does not the Sheriff have a clear vested interest in showing how his policy "works" ?
Lucky Bicycle Works, previously BunnySaurus Bugsii.
"My town is a teacher.
Oh, trucks and beers and memories
All spread out on the road.
Oh, my town is a leader of children,
To where Caution
Is a Long Wide Load"

-- Mark Seymour

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Hairless Kitten II
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Re: Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Hairless Kitten II » Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:23 am

Lucky Bicycle Works wrote:There could be an aspect of synaesthetics in the pink theme. Colours are not just symbolic, they affect mood even without a symbolic role like "pink is for girls and gays.' Personally I find pink very unpleasant unless it is attracting attention to something which is worth looking at (a nice body) and I think it's because to me it is a flesh-tone. Being in a pink environment is distracting because from the corner of my eye, I seem to always be in the presence of naked bodies.

The principle of painting the jail a particular colour, or having coloured jail clothing, I do not reject outright. The environment should discourage violence, and encourage introspection, education, and other good habits which will help the inmates overcome the bad habits which got them in jail in the first place. If the colour scheme helps create such an environment, it is worth considering.

That doesn't seem to be the reason. It's apparently intended to humiliate and socially isolate the jail inmates. And Low's "estimate" of re-offence rates should be taken with a grain of salt, since it was based on a sample of FIVE inmates (the capacity of the jail) for EIGHT months ... that's barely even enough for the court process.


Mason County, counts about 3,800 residents...

In 2004 that jail had 31% old customers that liked the service of the jail and returned.

They did the paint job and...

In 2005 only 3% were happy returning customers and in 2006 it was 5%

I rest my case.
Last edited by Hairless Kitten II on Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:34 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Vault 10
Minister
 
Posts: 2471
Founded: Sep 15, 2006
Ex-Nation

Re: Pink Jails, a solution?

Postby Vault 10 » Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:31 am

Lucky Bicycle Works wrote:And you aren't awkward at all about punishment being based on their own prejudices against "looking gay" ?

Not a punishment, just an extra bonus.

To once again underline that prisons are gay.

And yeah - being gay is a "no" in the criminal world.
There is a line most people say they will never cross. It is usually something they have done long ago when they thought no one was watching.




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