Liberate Nazi Europe [Draft]

[Captain Woodhouse]

Could NE please hurry up and refound their region so this issue can finally DIE once and for all?

Which it will be ready when it's ready.

[Unibot III]

If you were to read the recent Liberate NE proposals that have been floating around here (there have been - what? - four or so in the past two months) you would realize that Liberating the region will open Nazi Europe up to invasion and will ultimately (I believe) lead to the destruction of the region by outside forces. A lot of people don't even like the fact that the region exists. You are better off with the password, despite the internal politics of the region that may be in play here as well.

I agree with Skyrim and won't count this draft as having the necessary "native support" when most of executives and long-term members want the password up and for good reason. This would set a bad precedent for other regions.

[United Federation of Canada]

If you were to read the recent Liberate NE proposals that have been floating around here (there have been - what? - four or so in the past two months) you would realize that Liberating the region will open Nazi Europe up to invasion and will ultimately (I believe) lead to the destruction of the region by outside forces. A lot of people don't even like the fact that the region exists. You are better off with the password, despite the internal politics of the region that may be in play here as well.

I agree with Skyrim and won't count this draft as having the necessary "native support" when most of executives and long-term members want the password up and for good reason. This would set a bad precedent for other regions.

Plus it has been tried 4 times and the majority of the international community has been against it everytime.

[Rupture Farms co]

Drittes has never personally contributed in any feasible way to the region and has instead resisted any move by the government. He has shown intense hostility to Woodhouse despite Woodhouse himself having been affiliated with the region longer then him. I myself am a five year member to the region. German Dragons and myself both MSG'd Drittes on the matter of moving as well.

Most of the members ejected to the outer realms will no doubt join up in the safe region.

[Cromarty]

I agree with Skyrim and won't count this draft as having the necessary "native support" when most of executives and long-term members want the password up and for good reason. This would set a bad precedent for other regions.

Plus it has been tried 4 times and the majority of the international community has been against it everytime.

Unfortunately.

Opening up Nazi Europe to an invasion with a liberation would be delightful irony, considering they tried exactly the same thing to Haven.

[Cormac Stark]

I'm unsurprisingly in favor of this resolution.

To be clear, I couldn't care less that the natives of NAZI EUROPE are upset that the leadership of a Nazi region in which they chose to reside is behaving in a totalitarian way. Is that really a shock? Nevertheless, this resolution -- whatever its reasoning -- would accomplish what I have been trying to accomplish for months: It would open NAZI EUROPE to invasion, thus ensuring that its natives cannot be a threat to other regions because they will be preoccupied with defense of their own.

If NAZI EUROPE isn't liberated, and soon, the native government will refound the region. Once the region again has a founder its WA nations will no longer be preoccupied with regional defense. This will allow them to resume the raiding and griefing for which NAZI EUROPE is historically known. It is not in the interests of founderless natives, of neutral regions, of defenders or of the many invaders who find NAZI EUROPE detestable for this to happen. There is not a region or individual in the NationStates world other than NAZI EUROPE and its allies who should oppose opening NAZI EUROPE to invasion. The insidious nature of the Nazi ideology goes beyond this game and we should decisively declare by passing this resolution that we will do everything in our power to oppose within this game identification with and glorification of an ideology that led to the murder of millions.

I will close by saying that I speak for no region or organization on this matter. My views here are my own but I will stand by them and continue insisting until the moment it is either liberated or refounded that the NationStates community should act against NAZI EUROPE through the Security Council.

[United Federation of Canada]

I'm unsurprisingly in favor of this resolution.

To be clear, I couldn't care less that the natives of NAZI EUROPE are upset that the leadership of a Nazi region in which they chose to reside is behaving in a totalitarian way. Is that really a shock? Nevertheless, this resolution -- whatever its reasoning -- would accomplish what I have been trying to accomplish for months: It would open NAZI EUROPE to invasion, thus ensuring that its natives cannot be a threat to other regions because they will be preoccupied with defense of their own.

If NAZI EUROPE isn't liberated, and soon, the native government will refound the region. Once the region again has a founder its WA nations will no longer be preoccupied with regional defense. This will allow them to resume the raiding and griefing for which NAZI EUROPE is historically known. It is not in the interests of founderless natives, of neutral regions, of defenders or of the many invaders who find NAZI EUROPE detestable for this to happen. There is not a region or individual in the NationStates world other than NAZI EUROPE and its allies who should oppose opening NAZI EUROPE to invasion. The insidious nature of the Nazi ideology goes beyond this game and we should decisively declare by passing this resolution that we will do everything in our power to oppose within this game identification with and glorification of an ideology that led to the murder of millions.

I will close by saying that I speak for no region or organization on this matter. My views here are my own but I will stand by them and continue insisting until the moment it is either liberated or refounded that the NationStates community should act against NAZI EUROPE through the Security Council.

And if we liberate it and kick out the natives, they refound anyway and were right back to square one.

Liberations should only be used for one thing. Removing a password on a region THAT HAS BEEN raided, and allowing the natives back in.

If we liberate for the purpose of an invasion, it sets a terrible precedent that we for one do not wish to be part of.

We all know that several nations would love to go down in history as the ones that LIBERJACKED Nazi Europe, not under the pretense of making the region a batter place, but to destroy it and hold it as a trophy. This should not be permitted under ANY circumstances as it violates the goals of the Security Council of spreading interregional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary. Force is not required as Nazi Europe has done nothing wrong as of late, and we will have no party to destroying a region because of it's name.

We in no way support the goals, aims or hideous beliefs of Nazi Europe, but maintain that they do have the right to exist.

[Cromarty]

If we liberate for the purpose of an invasion, it sets a terrible precedent that we for one do not wish to be part of.

Nazi Europe already set the precedent.

Force is not required as Nazi Europe has done nothing wrong as of late, and we will have no party to destroying a region because of it's name.

So wrongs are ok as long as they were committed a 'long' time ago?

[United Federation of Canada]

Nazi Europe already set the precedent.

Were they successful? If not, then no precedent has been set.

So wrongs are ok as long as they were committed a 'long' time ago?

Seems the International Community thinks that is the case. 4 times, 4 failures.

If someone writes a GOOD draft, showing unprecedented evidence as to why we should open that region up to invasion then we will whole-heartedly support it. Until then we will continue to oppose.

[Cromarty]

Nazi Europe already set the precedent.

Were they successful? If not, then no precedent has been set.

Yes.

[United Federation of Canada]

Fair enough. But did Nazi Europe destroy that region? No they did not.

If Nazi Europe is opened to invasion, it WILL BE destroyed, just because of it's name, and that is an even bigger wrong than Nazi Europe committed.

We still contend that Nazi Europe has the right to exist, even if we abhor their despicable policies, and there has been no argument that has changed that stance as of yet.

[Bears Armed Mission]

Judging by the length their delegate has held office, we'd wager the password is a security implementation. To remove the password would be a violation of their sovereign rights in this case. Only once in our delegacy have we approved a liberation, and it was for a region that had its sovereignty brutally violated. We see no evidence to suggest that this is the case here.

Agreed.

Fits well with the theme of the region.

Most definitely agreed!

[Imperium of Tanith]

Fair enough. But did Nazi Europe destroy that region? No they did not.

If Nazi Europe is opened to invasion, it WILL BE destroyed, just because of it's name, and that is an even bigger wrong than Nazi Europe committed.

We still contend that Nazi Europe has the right to exist, even if we abhor their despicable policies, and there has been no argument that has changed that stance as of yet.

I agree with Canada, while NE may have committed questionable acts in the past, they are still a Soverign region with a Apparently very capable government.

@Reich, if they (the Gov), were as bad as you say, wouldn't theyd already be overthrown by the members inside? Since they haven't, and they even seem to be doing a spectacular job for their current situation.

@Captain Woodhouse: You have my upmost respect Mr. Woodhouse, you are a very capable Diplomat and a Gentleman.

[Unibot III]

Plus it has been tried 4 times and the majority of the international community has been against it everytime.

Unfortunately.

Opening up Nazi Europe to an invasion with a liberation would be delightful irony, considering they tried exactly the same thing to Haven.

That's not accurate, Oh my Days tried to do that to Haven. I don't think Nazi Europe knew anything about Haven; Oh my Days was just trying to prove a point and was eventually replaced in office.

[Marxist kingdoms]

finally someone one here with genuine intelligence progress is digression

[Svarttjern]

So Drittes, who put you up to this? The sore losers from the last attempt?

I know you're not acting on your own initiative. You're not smart enough.


But maybe you're dumb enough, judging by your draft.

[Cerian Quilor]

If NE was refounded, their WA nations would be able to raid with GGR or just found 'New Nazi Europe' or 'Nazi Europe II' or whatever the heck they want to call it, and then raid anyway.

While I personally don't like Nazi regions and would never work with them, I really don't care if they raid. They're one more raider group. This is a game, and getting obsessive about people who want to play Nazis is really not worthy my time. How many of them are actually IRL Nazis? (This is my issue with Antifa. Especially their santimoniousness and the whole thing in their WFE about how they're honoring all the people who have died fighing RL Facism, or some BS like that. Raiding and refounding Facist/Racist/Nationalist/Nazi regions does nothing to honor RL deaths) I mean, I've played Germany in Axis and Allies (in both the board game and the Computer game) and in a Civ III mod for WWII (and one for Civ IV). Does that mean I'm a nazi and need to be destroyed? A Few years ago, I played an SS officer in a game of GURPS (its a Roleplaying System) that had come from an alternate future where the Nazis won (and was thus trying to stop Allied time travelers from preventing his future from not happening). It was an interesting character to roleplay, for all I disagreed with everything Nazis stood for. Am I a Nazi now?

And why is it Nazi's get 'special treatment'? I mean, really? The Soviet Union killed more people all told, but communist/USSR themed regions don't get anything resembling the treatment of Nazi Regions.

Now, yes, I'm a bit hypocritical, since I would be far more willing to work with a communist/USSR themed region than a Nazi one (which I'd never work with), but there is a point where this Nazi-hating goes into the ridiculous, in the context of this game.

[National Socializtiche]

If NE was refounded, their WA nations would be able to raid with GGR or just found 'New Nazi Europe' or 'Nazi Europe II' or whatever the heck they want to call it, and then raid anyway.

While I personally don't like Nazi regions and would never work with them, I really don't care if they raid. They're one more raider group. This is a game, and getting obsessive about people who want to play Nazis is really not worthy my time. How many of them are actually IRL Nazis? (This is my issue with Antifa. Especially their santimoniousness and the whole thing in their WFE about how they're honoring all the people who have died fighing RL Facism, or some BS like that. Raiding and refounding Facist/Racist/Nationalist/Nazi regions does nothing to honor RL deaths) I mean, I've played Germany in Axis and Allies (in both the board game and the Computer game) and in a Civ III mod for WWII (and one for Civ IV). Does that mean I'm a nazi and need to be destroyed? A Few years ago, I played an SS officer in a game of GURPS (its a Roleplaying System) that had come from an alternate future where the Nazis won (and was thus trying to stop Allied time travelers from preventing his future from not happening). It was an interesting character to roleplay, for all I disagreed with everything Nazis stood for. Am I a Nazi now?

And why is it Nazi's get 'special treatment'? I mean, really? The Soviet Union killed more people all told, but communist/USSR themed regions don't get anything resembling the treatment of Nazi Regions.

Now, yes, I'm a bit hypocritical, since I would be far more willing to work with a communist/USSR themed region than a Nazi one (which I'd never work with), but there is a point where this Nazi-hating goes into the ridiculous, in the context of this game.

i gotta say, we may not meet eye to eye but i've been saying this for some time. how is it that socialists/communists can practically get away with anything. even having a stalin photo in their flags, hammer and sickles witch symbolize over 100 million deaths and counting worldwide. yet swastikas and Hitler flags are a no go? id say in all fairness if we couldn't have our roleplaying flags neither should commies. oh bust just ask any commie they'll tell you: "that 'type' communism isn't what im about" except that it most certainly is. don't let them try to distance themselves from their tyrannical ideology if we cannot sport ours in the form of flags.

if the mods were on a base of fair play that is.

oh and a good bit of us are actually National Socialist. however none of us are "Nazis"

how many times are we going to let the likes of these so called antifa/communists hijack the security council for their own twisted deeds? i mean come on.

[Potlimitomaha]

Very, very much in favour.

[National Socialists of America]

Uhhh... No.

[Anime Daisuki]

Putting everything aside, the fact that this was submitted with all bold fonts makes it even less likely to get our support.