NATIONAL SOVEREIGNTY!!!

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

http://z11.invisionfree.invalid.com/NatSovOrg/i ... wtopic=289
http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=Observer

The difference is purely political. Observers retained all the rights of full members in the old NSO.

[American Capitalist]

As a relatively new member too nation states I would join the organization if it's recreated. It seems most of the people on the poll support the general idea. I personally voted for renaming it with the same basic ideals at it's heart.

[Mushet]

OOC:

After reading this...

NSO membership represented a variety of perspectives on national sovereignty, with some members choosing to advocate absolute sovereignty, others limited sovereignty, and still others holding very specific criteria regarding what constitutes sovereignty and to what extent the NSUN should respect it. Members were usually referred to as "sovereigntists" or "NatSovers", though the terms could also be used to describe adherents to the wider NS "sovereigntist movement," which included more extreme and anti-UN elements such as ACCEL and Gatesville. Most active members of NSO took a more pragmatic approach to sovereignty and the formulation of international law.

... if you'll have me, the Unibotian Delegation wouldn't mind joining the NSO. I can write up a formal letter, or a resume or whatever, if you like, Yelda.

There's no need for a formal letter or resume. In the past people simply joined by registering at the forum and then stating if they wanted to be full members or observers. Let's discuss this a bit more and see if we end up starting a new board. If we do that there wouldn't be much point in registering at the old one.

(posting with Yelda since Arororugul doesn't do OOC)

Okay Yelda, when you've figured out what you're going to do with this, give me a shout with a TG or whatever.

IC: Eduard paused, reading over a pamplet on the NSO. He motioned to ask the General something curiously,

"Is there a real difference between the observers and the members of the NSO? Or is the status of "observer" just to indicate to others that your nation's interests do not always align with the NatSov-extremist ideology? I suppose what I'm really asking is: is there a enforced-compliance in NSO for members to vote a certain way?" Eduard asked.

This shit was stupid six years ago. Still is.

It was stupid six years ago, I'll give you that. Then came HotRodia's essay on National Sovereignty, which established NatSov as a legitimate theory of UN/WA operations. At that point, it ceased being stupid.

OOC: That's a really excellent read, I remember a few years back when someone pointed it out to me, I read it a few times over again to absorb it all -- it really should be a sticky on this forum for the new members to have access to (I mean, Jolt is .. err...Jolt -- you know what I mean).

I do think we should at least have a sign up list of people who wish receive a telegram whenever any such organization becomes active and we have a forum in place.

As for the difference between an observer and a member, I would also like to know what this is if anyone knows or can point to me where to find the info on what the difference was in the now defunct NSO forum between a member and an observer.

yes me too. put me on there

[The Palentine]

Most definately, old bean. its needed with some of the godawful and intrusive resolutions getting submitted and passed.

[Quadrimmina]

Alright, so basically it's an organization of nations who advocated for national sovereignty and worked together to draft resolutions to further this and/or repeals?

[Enn]

Alright, so basically it's an organization of nations who advocated for national sovereignty and worked together to draft resolutions to further this and/or repeals?

Pretty much, yeah.

[HotRodia]

Hell, I'VE never heard of the original poster.

Really? And you are...?

Well then, if we're all done recreating the scene with the smoking caterpillar from Alice in Wonderland, I'd like to move on to more relevant business here. We are delighted at the proposal to revamp the NSO; however, we cannot abide the suggestion that we simply build on the ruins of the former organization. That old saloon is haunted, I tell you! And I don't want our proceedings to be constantly interrupted by the Ghosts of Sovereigntists Past, with HotRodia's specter wandering the aisles, wailing, "In my day, you were all my puppets, and I would spend hours entertaining myself by pulling your strings! Now, dance, puppets, dance! AHAHAHAHA!!", or Chipmunks' spirit, moaning, "Your new microcredit resolution SUCKS!! Why, in my day, we didn't need layers upon layers of useless bureaucracy just to encourage microlending; we just assumed the gnomes would handle everything! Wooooo-oo-oo!", and so forth. That would be quite a distraction. So if it's all the same to everyone, I would prefer we open an all-new saloon, with old spirits (the drinks, not the sovereigntists) and young girls to perform for us -- rather than risk the ghost of Karmicaria wandering in and giving see-through lapdances to our bewildered new patrons.

Jack Riley
Secretary of State

This Jack Riley fellow makes a great deal of sense. Leave the past in the past, and keep the present. Or just give it away. Everyone loves a good present. Where was I again?

HotRodian Ambassador to the World Assembly
Accelerus Dioce

[Enn]

This Jack Riley fellow makes a great deal of sense. Leave the past in the past, and keep the present. Or just give it away. Everyone loves a good present. Where was I again?

HotRodian Ambassador to the World Assembly
Accelerus Dioce

Well now, that's an accent I haven't heard for some time. Good to see you again!

Stephanie Fulton,
WA Ambassador for Enn

[Sky View]

I don't know maybe it should become a practice for parties to become common in the WA

[Enn]

If by 'parties' you mean festivals, celebrations etc, I refer you to the Strangers' Bar. If by parties you mean political factions, they come and go. Never particularly formal (what with the lack of any sort of Whip position), but there have been political groupings in the past. But they'll never be formalised, I sincerely hope.

[Embolalia]

I don't know, I think NSO could easily be considered a party. Going OOC for a bit, I think NatSov/IntFed can be compared to a lot of early American politicking. The NatSov crowd is basically the Democratic-Republicans, and the IntFed crowd is basically the Federalists. I don't know that IntFed ever got as organized, but NSO as I recall, used to be quite the force to be reckoned with back in the day.

[Oh my Days]

"National Sovereignty is key to allowing us to follow our National Socialist program, and as such we will gladly participate in this organisation. To those who object, we wish to point out that we must remain in The World Assembly to maintain an influence in The Security Council, but do not wish to be turned into Civil Rights Lovefests."

With that, the ambassador yielded the floor.

[Tarsas]

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=51737&p=2160236#p2160236

Look at this. This resolution demands all member states hold elections. That is violating national sovereignty and why this organization is needed.

Count Paul Marlow Vi

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

"National Sovereignty is key to allowing us to follow our National Socialist program, and as such we will gladly participate in this organisation. To those who object, we wish to point out that we must remain in The World Assembly to maintain an influence in The Security Council...

Then why join a General Assembly organization?

You also must have missed the point in the rules which states that banning ideologies is illegal. That is the key to allowing you to follow your detestable Nazi policies, not national sovereignty. Run along now.

- Jack Riley, Secy. of State

[Oh my Days]

"National Sovereignty is key to allowing us to follow our National Socialist program, and as such we will gladly participate in this organisation. To those who object, we wish to point out that we must remain in The World Assembly to maintain an influence in The Security Council...

Then why join a General Assembly organization?

You also must have missed the point in the rules which states that banning ideologies is illegal. That is the key to allowing you to follow your detestable Nazi policies, not national sovereignty. Run along now.

- Jack Riley, Secy. of State

The ambassador spluttered with laughter, before replying "of course banning ideologies is illegal, the WA can certainly infringe on them though. I believe that is why you set up a committee to find loopholes in resolutions, so you can ignore the sections you don't like. Increased awareness of National Sovereignty will allow us to protect certain aspects of our Government, free from your detestable Capitalist meddling."

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

The ambassador spluttered with laughter, before replying "of course banning ideologies is illegal, the WA can certainly infringe on them though. I believe that is why you set up a committee to find loopholes in resolutions, so you can ignore the sections you don't like."

No, that is why we resigned. The CSA was merely a means of thumbing our proverbial nose at an overbearing and anti-sovereigntist UN establishment. If you imagine that we embrace sovereigntism to secure the "rights" of nations to exploit populist fears and prejudices, restrict civil liberties and advance a narrow-minded ideology, you are fooling only yourself.

- Jack Riley, Secy. of State

[Oh my Days]

The CSA was merely a means of thumbing our proverbial nose at an overbearing and anti-sovereigntist UN establishment.

"Sounds like a good way to spend Government money."

If you imagine that we embrace sovereigntism to secure the "rights" of nations to exploit populist fears and prejudices, restrict civil liberties and advance a narrow-minded ideology, you are fooling only yourself.

"We couldn't care less why you support sovereigntism, even if it does allow you to brutally exploit your people for the benefit of the rich and the detriment of the environment, we only care that we can continue to follow a National Socialist program, which sovereigntism helps with. We would also like to remind you that there is no exploiting populist fears and prejudices in Oh My Days, civil-liberties are more than adequate considering the political situation, and our ideology is in no way narrow-minded."

[Nord schandliche]

The ambassador of The Most Serene Republic of Nord schandliche agrees that interference in the sovereignty of sovereign nations has become excessive and intrusive. The ambassador feels that WA's majority rule nature is being abused by pro-democracy, pro-environmentalist nations who are attempting to use the WA's power to force their policies down the throats of any nation who does not agree with their particular way of thinking.

[Novus Niciae]

It is the opinion of the government of Novus Niciae that membership in the WA is voluntary and that there is a wide world of unregulated sovereignty out there for those who wish to take it. So we are wondering why they are sitting around in here objecting to us when they can leave at any time and ignore the WA with no ill effects whatsoever?

[Flibbleites]

It is the opinion of the government of Novus Niciae that membership in the WA is voluntary and that there is a wide world of unregulated sovereignty out there for those who wish to take it. So we are wondering why they are sitting around in here objecting to us when they can leave at any time and ignore the WA with no ill effects whatsoever?

Because we believe that all nations shouldn't have to worry about undue restriction on their right to rule themselves how they see fit.

Bob Flibble
NSO Mafia Don

OOC: Besides, this is really the only part of the game that's kept me playing for all these years.

[Novus Niciae]

It is the opinion of the government of Novus Niciae that membership in the WA is voluntary and that there is a wide world of unregulated sovereignty out there for those who wish to take it. So we are wondering why they are sitting around in here objecting to us when they can leave at any time and ignore the WA with no ill effects whatsoever?

Because we believe that all nations shouldn't have to worry about undue restriction on their right to rule themselves how they see fit.

Bob Flibble
NSO Mafia Don

OOC: Besides, this is really the only part of the game that's kept me playing for all these years.

But isn't the right chose to freely associate and collaborate with other nations one of the sovereign rights of a nation.
If you object to this part of sovereignty then what do you represent?

[HotRodia]

Well now, that's an accent I haven't heard for some time. Good to see you again!

Stephanie Fulton,
WA Ambassador for Enn

The pleasure is all mine, Stephanie. Now where is the Stranger's Bar again? I'm going to toast to the fact that the Stranger's Bar remains unregulated by the World Assembly. At least the WA hasn't legislated away my tequila, a fact that makes its presence as an organization tolerable.

HotRodian Ambassador to the World Assembly
Accelerus Dioce

[Flibbleites]

It is the opinion of the government of Novus Niciae that membership in the WA is voluntary and that there is a wide world of unregulated sovereignty out there for those who wish to take it. So we are wondering why they are sitting around in here objecting to us when they can leave at any time and ignore the WA with no ill effects whatsoever?

Because we believe that all nations shouldn't have to worry about undue restriction on their right to rule themselves how they see fit.

Bob Flibble
NSO Mafia Don

OOC: Besides, this is really the only part of the game that's kept me playing for all these years.

But isn't the right chose to freely associate and collaborate with other nations one of the sovereign rights of a nation.
If you object to this part of sovereignty then what do you represent?

Who's saying we are objecting to that, but the fact is, that in order to fight to protect everyone sovereignty you have to do it from within the belly of the beast so to speak.

Bob Flibble
NSO Mafia Don

[Bears Armed]

It is the opinion of the government of Novus Niciae that membership in the WA is voluntary and that there is a wide world of unregulated sovereignty out there for those who wish to take it. So we are wondering why they are sitting around in here objecting to us when they can leave at any time and ignore the WA with no ill effects whatsoever?

Because there are some subjects, such as the protection of prisoners-of-war for example or the banning of biological weapons, that many of the national governments who take a generally 'Sovereigntist' apporach agree are suitable for legislation at this level... and we cannot promote such legislation if we do not maintain a presence here.

[Strictly Commercial]

Greetings to all.

As a relative newcomer to the world stage, our nation would welcome the opportunity to join with other like-minded, and more experienced nations, to address what we see as the slow, yet seemingly inexorable (d)evolution of the WA toward an uber-nanny superstate. Many are the existing WA resolutions we believe over-zealously pre-determine issues best addressed at the national level. An organization such as the one proposed here may be the counterbalance that we would desire to be operational before we commit to WA membership.

As such, we would be delighted to receive any further news of developments, via TG if you wish. Including requests for what meager aid we might provide our fellow citizen-states, in such efforts.

O.O.C.-Still trying to decide what I'll find to be the most fun way to interact here, and I think this an interesting start.