General Assembly Q&A

[Bears Armed]

Hello,

This is likely a poor place to ask this, so if I should ask elsewhere, please direct me to a better place.

I am trying to apply for membership to the World Assembly. Me email address is correct and yet I do not recieve anything in my inbox, spam folder, or anything other place (as far as I know).

What should I do?

Which email provider are you using? Hotmail and Outlook don't like Nationstates, for some reason, and consequently tend to reject these emails: If you're currently using one of those services then creating an account on a different one (such as gmail, which generally works fine for this) is probably advisable.
The "proper" place to post this would have been in 'Technical', but I've given you an answer that you'd have received there.

_________________________________________

I like your flag.

^_^

[Morteuphoria]

I still don't know all the ins and outs of making proposals, but this latest one (https://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_vi ... 1473032551), I'm pretty damn positive is going to get pulled pretty quickly. I can tell just based on the size, really. But can anybody please elucidate what all rules specifically they are breaking there? Unless I am wrong, but... nah.

[Separatist Peoples]

I still don't know all the ins and outs of making proposals, but this latest one (https://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_vi ... 1473032551), I'm pretty damn positive is going to get pulled pretty quickly. I can tell just based on the size, really. But can anybody please elucidate what all rules specifically they are breaking there? Unless I am wrong, but... nah.

Strictly speaking, it has no operative clause, so it doesn't do anything. It's pretty easy to tell what it means to do, but estimations are insufficient to ensure legality. It might have a Strength violation, but that's arguable, and, in the face of the previous issue, irrelevant.

[Morteuphoria]

Ah okay, thanks. Trying to observe and get the whole idea of how this works when done properly, before I even think about submitting any resolutions, as I sent one in a long while back and it got pulled for having a National Sovereignty argument, essentially. Again, thanks.

[Wallenburg]

Ah okay, thanks. Trying to observe and get the whole idea of how this works when done properly, before I even think about submitting any resolutions, as I sent one in a long while back and it got pulled for having a National Sovereignty argument, essentially. Again, thanks.

A good way to get accustomed to the GA is to participate in drafting threads. You can see people make suggestions for edits or make suggestions of your own, you can reinforce your understanding of the rules, you can become accustomed to popular proposal formatting, you can learn the quirks of each regular player, and so on.

[Morteuphoria]

Ah okay, thanks. Trying to observe and get the whole idea of how this works when done properly, before I even think about submitting any resolutions, as I sent one in a long while back and it got pulled for having a National Sovereignty argument, essentially. Again, thanks.

A good way to get accustomed to the GA is to participate in drafting threads. You can see people make suggestions for edits or make suggestions of your own, you can reinforce your understanding of the rules, you can become accustomed to popular proposal formatting, you can learn the quirks of each regular player, and so on.

Thanks for the advice!

[Imperium Anglorum]

Gonna put this up here, since there isn't much of another place to put it. I'm going to update the passed resolutions thread tomorrow.

HACKER: I want to cancel.
BERNARD: But it's been announced!

HACKER: I want safeguards!
APPLEBY: No! That's impossible!

HACKER: (national television) My Permanent Secretary, Sir Humphrey Appleby, is staking his reputation on these new safeguards!
APPLYBY: (gulps)

---

And we're up to date!

[Calladan]

"The Community of World Assembly Improvement Foundation"

Is this a real thing? My office received a telegram from them this morning, and while I understand that they are unlikely to be selling me a fortune in lost treasure from Bigtopian Princes, I still wanted to check it was an actual WA related body and not just someone who was bored.

(Apologies in advance if they are real and I doubted them for no reason!).

[Wallenburg]

"The Community of World Assembly Improvement Foundation"

Is this a real thing? My office received a telegram from them this morning, and while I understand that they are unlikely to be selling me a fortune in lost treasure from Bigtopian Princes, I still wanted to check it was an actual WA related body and not just someone who was bored.

(Apologies in advance if they are real and I doubted them for no reason!).

It is a puppet nation created by Excidium Planetis to provide a more official-looking face for their suggested changes to and reforms of the GA. It is not an official WA entity.

I'm a little confused, though. What was the telegram about?

[Bananaistan]

Am I the only who finds this whole thing with EP going around letting on that their Improvement Foundation is something official distasteful? Using the WA flag and the particular name has clearly lead to Calladan at least questioning that it might be an official WA body.

[Calladan]

"The Community of World Assembly Improvement Foundation"

Is this a real thing? My office received a telegram from them this morning, and while I understand that they are unlikely to be selling me a fortune in lost treasure from Bigtopian Princes, I still wanted to check it was an actual WA related body and not just someone who was bored.

(Apologies in advance if they are real and I doubted them for no reason!).

It is a puppet nation created by Excidium Planetis to provide a more official-looking face for their suggested changes to and reforms of the GA. It is not an official WA entity.

I'm a little confused, though. What was the telegram about?

About getting new players more involved. Since I am new to the hallowed halls of The WA (it being only a month and a few days since Calladan bounded on to the world scene) they thought I might be able to help. (*shrug* I am not certain what I can do, but if it makes the WA a better place, or at least a most fun place to visit, I am all for doing whatever I can. Although not literally whatever I can - I do have some standards, and a wife!)

Anyway - as I said, I just wanted to confirm it wasn't some evil wizard trying to trick me with their subtle (or not so subtle) wiles and even if it is not an "official" WA body, it is not someone who wants to do me harm

Thank you.

[Tinfect]

Am I the only who finds this whole thing with EP going around letting on that their Improvement Foundation is something official distasteful? Using the WA flag and the particular name has clearly lead to Calladan at least questioning that it might be an official WA body.

Oh no, certainly not, I'd much rather he use his usual account as well.
On the other hand, we now have plenty of opportunities to sell bridges to newcomers.

[Gruenberg]

Am I the only who finds this whole thing with EP going around letting on that their Improvement Foundation is something official distasteful? Using the WA flag and the particular name has clearly lead to Calladan at least questioning that it might be an official WA body.

Can you imagine the outrage if it were Auralia?

[Calladan]

Am I the only who finds this whole thing with EP going around letting on that their Improvement Foundation is something official distasteful? Using the WA flag and the particular name has clearly lead to Calladan at least questioning that it might be an official WA body.

To be fair, I have a great deal of credulous simplicity to play on, so perhaps the fault lies more with me than with anyone else

[Louisistan]

Am I the only who finds this whole thing with EP going around letting on that their Improvement Foundation is something official distasteful? Using the WA flag and the particular name has clearly lead to Calladan at least questioning that it might be an official WA body.

You're not the only one, no.

[Wallenburg]

Am I the only who finds this whole thing with EP going around letting on that their Improvement Foundation is something official distasteful? Using the WA flag and the particular name has clearly lead to Calladan at least questioning that it might be an official WA body.

If they used WAIF solely in its pseudo-official capacity, I'd be fine with it, but it's really just become another face with which Excidium can make the same arguments. So yeah, you're not the only one.

[Kryozerkia]

"The Community of World Assembly Improvement Foundation"

Is this a real thing? My office received a telegram from them this morning, and while I understand that they are unlikely to be selling me a fortune in lost treasure from Bigtopian Princes, I still wanted to check it was an actual WA related body and not just someone who was bored.

(Apologies in advance if they are real and I doubted them for no reason!).

It isn't. We have received a GHR about it.

Previously, it wasn't allowed. But that ruling was made years ago when Ard was an active member. I will consult with my fellow GA mods on this.

[Gruenberg]

It may not be against the letter of the rules as far as the mods are concerned, but as players we should definitely be concerned about this, with it being demonstrated some people are already getting confused as to whether the nation has any official status or no. As time has shown, though, there's no real way of combating a telegram campaign, so it'll have to be a concerted effort on the forum.

[Kryozerkia]

Am I the only who finds this whole thing with EP going around letting on that their Improvement Foundation is something official distasteful? Using the WA flag and the particular name has clearly lead to Calladan at least questioning that it might be an official WA body.

It is not an official body. It is, however, permitted to exist. The old precedent issued by Ardchoille with regard to a similar type of nation has been overturned. In reviewing, we found that there is no justification for the old precedent to stand.

(Yes, only a couple of us are around to check these things, so it gets done much faster).

EDIT -- I also updated the Rulings Repository.

[States of Glory WA Office]

Am I the only who finds this whole thing with EP going around letting on that their Improvement Foundation is something official distasteful? Using the WA flag and the particular name has clearly lead to Calladan at least questioning that it might be an official WA body.

Can you imagine the outrage if it were Auralia?

Didn't Auralia already do something similar, albeit for a completely different purpose? Also, if you're trying to imply that there is little to no outrage at EP for doing this...well, the responses here speak for themselves.

[Gruenberg]

Am I the only who finds this whole thing with EP going around letting on that their Improvement Foundation is something official distasteful? Using the WA flag and the particular name has clearly lead to Calladan at least questioning that it might be an official WA body.

It is not an official body. It is, however, permitted to exist. The old precedent issued by Ardchoille with regard to a similar type of nation has been overturned. In reviewing, we found that there is no justification for the old precedent to stand.

This is ridiculous. Did you even read the ruling you're "overturning"?

Ardchoille's ruling was justifying the discard on the basis of the rule that "a proposal authored by a "nation" that advertises a region or group's name [is] illegal". In Auralia's case, it was advertising his WA working party group; in other cases, it's been for regions (such as the Osiris WA Office). It didn't "set" any precedent, it was a rule that had long existed, and upholding it in Auralia's case had nothing to do with the fact the proposal was advertising a WA group - advertising any group would have been similarly illegal.

She also confirmed, separately, that players could use the WA flag, use the WA in their nation names, etc.

If you're overturning the first, then you're overturning a very longstanding rule that the players asked for - an example of something that actually is one of those "community standards" - without any justification, simply saying there is "no reason for it".

If you're overturning the second, then it would appear that you are saying it is not permitted to exist.

I don't even...

I can't...

...what...???

[Imperium Anglorum]

It is not an official body. It is, however, permitted to exist. The old precedent issued by Ardchoille with regard to a similar type of nation has been overturned. In reviewing, we found that there is no justification for the old precedent to stand.

This is ridiculous. Did you even read the ruling you're "overturning"?

Ardchoille's ruling was justifying the discard on the basis of the rule that "a proposal authored by a "nation" that advertises a region or group's name [is] illegal". In Auralia's case, it was advertising his WA working party group; in other cases, it's been for regions (such as the Osiris WA Office). It didn't "set" any precedent, it was a rule that had long existed, and upholding it in Auralia's case had nothing to do with the fact the proposal was advertising a WA group - advertising any group would have been similarly illegal.

She also confirmed, separately, that players could use the WA flag, use the WA in their nation names, etc.

If you're overturning the first, then you're overturning a very longstanding rule that the players asked for - an example of something that actually is one of those "community standards" - without any justification, simply saying there is "no reason for it".

If you're overturning the second, then it would appear that you are saying it is not permitted to exist.

I don't even...

I can't...

...what...???

Hear, hear. Further information ought be provided on why this decision was made and upon what rationale it was made.

[Snefaldia]

I'm sorry, there absolutely needs to be a rule regarding player use of game imagery/names/logos/whatever when it comes to communicating with other players. I fail to see the difference between a player using a puppet to assume an illusion of authority when dealing with others in the WA and someone pretending to be the nation of "Nationstates Moderators Compliance Agency" and sending rules clarifications to others. That kind of nonsense would get someone disciplined immediately.

What makes it even worse is that this player has openly admitted that their use of WA imagery and the appearance of authority is intentional:

Well, I have as much authority as you. Well, maybe a little bit more, but that's negligible.

I'm trying to appear as an authority because human nature dictates that people are more likely to submit to authority figures than random people telling them what not to do.

This player is admittedly trying to appear as an official part of the game to get new players to listen to them. In any other section of the game this would be hammered down without a second thought, as impersonating the mods or whatever.How is this acceptable?

[Sciongrad]

I'm sorry, there absolutely needs to be a rule regarding player use of game imagery/names/logos/whatever when it comes to communicating with other players. I fail to see the difference between a player using a puppet to assume an illusion of authority when dealing with others in the WA and someone pretending to be the nation of "Nationstates Moderators Compliance Agency" and sending rules clarifications to others. That kind of nonsense would get someone disciplined immediately.

What makes it even worse is that this player has openly admitted that their use of WA imagery and the appearance of authority is intentional:

Well, I have as much authority as you. Well, maybe a little bit more, but that's negligible.

I'm trying to appear as an authority because human nature dictates that people are more likely to submit to authority figures than random people telling them what not to do.

This player is admittedly trying to appear as an official part of the game to get new players to listen to them. In any other section of the game this would be hammered down without a second thought, as impersonating the mods or whatever.How is this acceptable?

This. It has been proven on this very page that new players may be fooled into believing a certain player has more authority than they actually do. Allowing players to masquerade as official authorities on anything when they are not does not contribute anything to the game except confusion. Excidium Planetis seems to be mocking their critics by continuing to post using their sham account.

I will also provide some free advice to those players that feel it's necessary to use puppets because they wouldn't otherwise be taken seriously - don't be terrible to other players (especially new players) and maybe you won't need to trick them.

[Calladan]

Since I appear to have started somewhat of a.... well - I am not sure what it is, I thought I would add something.

Usually I don't post the contents of telegrams, since I consider them protected and private. The only general exceptions are abusive or ones that are clearly bad or evil.

This doesn't fall into either of those categories (in so far as I can tell), but since there are potential problems surrounding it....

First of all, in case no one did so yet though they probably already have, I'd like to give you an official Welcome to the General Assembly. It's a bit of a mess right now, but at least it isn't empty, so we have that.

I'd also like to apologize for not sending this yesterday when I sent the others this TG, I kinda forgot about you. Oops.

Awhile ago I tried to question the regulars on what it would take to improve the GA, primarily on how to stir up more involvement from new players.

Anyways, I now realize that is somewhat backwards. One shouldn't really ask the people who have stuck around for years how to draw in new players, one should actually ask the "outsiders", if you will. You have met the made-up-on-the-spot qualifications of being an "outsider" who recently managed to stick around this place.

So, to get to the point:
What interested you in the GA?
Why did you stick around?
Were there any significant obstacles to becoming involved?
Were there any players who helped you become integrated?
If you could change anything about your reception here, what would it be?
Do you believe the GA needs a new approach to dealing with new players?

I'd like your feedback.

My question was related to where this would go, if members of The WA "board" (if such a creature exists?) would see it and what the point of it was.

As I said - I had no desire to get the sender in trouble, and definitely not to start a whole chaotic series of events. I was just....... curious, as you can probably imagine one would be.