[Passed] Repeal "Quarantine Regulation"

[Cogoria]

((Ooc: it was actually at the time you were seeking delegate approval so it was not too late, but SP did highlight it a while before that which is why I went on my culling adventure. Though I guess tgat point is not important now))

IC: Cogoria can only suggest the repeal is scrapped in entirety, Umeria's ambassador seems intent on creating unnecessary legislation, the current document is perfectly fine as is.

[Louisistan]

IC: Does anyone have any actual edit suggestions or are you people just going to keep insulting my previous decisions?

I repeat: Mental illnesses are not contagious. So what's the reason behind Clause 4?

[Umeria]

it was actually at the time you were seeking delegate approval so it was not too late,

OOC: Rereading the thread, yes, it was during the submission stage. But you were talking about turning quarantines into death-camps, not medical ethics.

but SP did highlight it a while before

For the umpteenth time, no he didn't. He hinted at it and made it seem entirely optional.

I repeat: Mental illnesses are not contagious. So what's the reason behind Clause 4?

Well, not diseases that are purely mental, but I believe there are contagious diseases that have mental effects. Edited.

[Tinfect]

it was actually at the time you were seeking delegate approval so it was not too late,

OOC: Rereading the thread, yes, it was during the submission stage. But you were talking about turning quarantines into death-camps, not medical ethics.

OOC:
Er, mate, turning quarantines into death-camps is rather an issue of medical ethics, among other things.

[Separatist Peoples]

but SP did highlight it a while before

For the umpteenth time, no he didn't. He hinted at it and made it seem entirely optional.

OOC: The hell I just hinted at it. You chose to take it as a hint. I was refraining from being blunt because the last time I was, you made a point of complaining about how "some players" were rude in your thread. So I was more genteel. Since clearly I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't, I'm going back to being painfully blunt.

You were the author. You had sole authority in determining what happened with your proposal so long as everything was legal. The buck stopped with you. You let it pass. Don't pawn blame off on me for your oversight, and don't you dare malign my actions to save face.

[Cogoria]

(OOC: That's because it was completely optional, you chose the option that left it out, everything suggested by other players is optional becuse it's YOUR proposal. And yes, mass extermintions of infected people is a medical ethics issue...... now back to IC))

Cogoria can not oppose this repeal enough, the current legislation allows for efficient and immediate suppression of dangerous diseases, would you place millions of lives at risk merely so that you can put three resolution notches on your belt? And should this repeal go through, what if a poorer nation suffers an outbreak in the interim? Without the support of EPARC the nation could be ravaged while the bureaucrats squabble. And what if in frustration at your yo yoing the nations of the WA reject your replacement proposal? That could cause uncalculable damge in the long run.
-Representative Barishnikov

((decided my ambassador needed a name...))

[Umeria]

The hell I just hinted at it. You chose to take it as a hint.

Looking back, at first you said:

"You have an opportunity, provided the rest of this is fixed, to expand the duties and responsibilities of EPARC to address a wide number of issues surrounding quarantines and epidemics, not the least of which is establishing an Ethics Board to help nations solve the tough dilemmas that epidemics force upon them, or to review the appropriateness of already-undertaken measures, and assess whether the acts were necessary or excessive.

I was in a hurry, so I said I would get to it later. Further into the discussion, you said:

"Alternatively, you could have task a committee to compile and disseminate information regarding dangerous communicable disease.

Reading your comments, I was confused on what you meant. Should the ethics board thing be in the definitions clause or the aid clause? Should it be part of EPARC? So I said:

So is there some legal way to expand a committee, or should I make another committee which is an extension of EPARC? And is there already an ethics board somewhere that I should refer to, or should I make a new one?

IA responded, suggesting I have EPARC define serious diseases. I did so. You were completely silent afterward, so I assumed I had done the right thing. Whether or not you meant it as an optionality, it certainly sounded like one.

I was refraining from being blunt because the last time I was, you made a point of complaining about how "some players" were rude in your thread.

When did I say this?

You were the author. You had sole authority in determining what happened with your proposal so long as everything was legal. The buck stopped with you. You let it pass. Don't pawn blame off on me for your oversight, and don't you dare malign my actions to save face.

Okay: I'm sorry for not listening to you well enough. It's entirely my fault that a medical ethics board wasn't added. Now can we please get back to repealing this thing?

[snip]

If there was any other way to fix the ethics gap, I would do it. Unfortunately, it appears there isn't.

[Imperium Anglorum]

FFS can we drop the blame game? What's next, the Oppression Olympics?

[Tinfect]

FFS can we drop the blame game? What's next, the Oppression Olympics?

OOC:
I'll have you know, that in my country, that is a respected and beloved tradition, and that it is disgusting and oppressive of you to joke about it in such a manner.
But yeah, no, this is getting a bit ludicrous. Umeria, people make mistakes, maybe you missed a hint, and maybe SP didn't drop the anvil hard enough, regardless, stop arguing over who's fault it is, and get on with actually fixing it.

[Louisistan]

Unless The Content People of Umeria are part of The Confederate Dominion of Separatist Peoples, I don't believe they can blame Ambassador Bell for the shortcomings of their own proposal. It's each author's own responsibility to make sure their proposals are up to speed. All the debate can do is offer advice.

[Umeria]

I repeat:

I'm sorry for not listening to you well enough. It's entirely my fault that a medical ethics board wasn't added. Now can we please get back to repealing this thing?

Except for Mr. Becker's comment on clause 4(which I think I fixed), no one has had any objections to this proposal's wording. So, I may as well submit it.

[Araraukar]

Acknowledging that the resolution put a number of measures into place which helped improve the structure and standards of quarantines;

What structure? You specifically refused to specify anything concrete about the quarantines, such as specifying they be facilities, rather than just, say, penning people like cattle.

Dismayed that 385 GA failed to cover many issues involving medical ethics, experimentation, and medicine within a quarantine;

You might want to re-phrase that as "Regretting that GA #385 did not cover the issues of medical ethics as pertaining to quarantining people". That makes you seem less petty - as it is your own resolution, "dismayed" easily makes it seem like you were blaming someone else for your failures (OOC: I TG'd you about the blame thing), whereas "regretting" means you acknowledge it was your own failure to put those things in and that you intend to fix things with a future resolution.

Questioning whether the resolution's 4-point definition of "treatment" is malleable enough to extend to treatments regarding the mental effects of a disease;

Why do you need this at all? Since the resolution is only concerned about infectious diseases - that is, physical ones - the mental effects are unlikely to be the main issue in the first place.

Believing that 385 GA is unacceptably brief regarding these matters, and skims many prominent issues central to the topic of quarantines;

Again the language thing... "Believing that GA #385 did not properly address these matters, and skimmed many prominent issues central to the topic of quarantines".

Worried that the resolution makes it extremely difficult to pass further legislation on unaddressed medical ethics problems;

I'd add "as pertaining to quarantines" to the end of that sentence.

Hoping to clear away the hastiness of 385 GA from these halls and pass a new resolution that fills the gaping hole 385 GA created;

I'd go with "Hoping to wipe GA 385 from the passed resolutions list in order to pass new legislation that will adequately address the issues involving quarantines".

Hereby repeals "Quarantine Regulation".

OOC: This one's good.

[Sapient Cattle]

rather than just, say, penning people like cattle.

"I find that highly offensive." says Ambassador Biscuit. "In my country the Cattle Pens are great forts where, in times of desperation, our brave soldiers make a last stand against the charging Pig Horde. It would be an honor to die there, infectious disease or no."

[States of Glory WA Office]

rather than just, say, penning people like cattle.

"I find that highly offensive." says Ambassador Biscuit. "In my country the Cattle Pens are great forts where, in times of desperation, our brave soldiers make a last stand against the charging Pig Horde. It would be an honor to die there, infectious disease or no."

Fairburn: Oh, boy, fresh meat! (gets out fork and knife while wearing a napkin)

Neville: (picks up hammer) Why go to the slaughterhouse when you already have all the tools you need?

(Both Neville and Fairburn start drooling)

OOC: OK, while I'm beginning to get tired of all these 'Sapient [insert non-sapient matter here]' puppets, I have to admit that this one made me smile.

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: a joke stops being a joke when it stops being funny. It stops being funny when it gets ground into the dirt from repetition.

[States of Glory WA Office]

OOC: a joke stops being a joke when it stops being funny. It stops being funny when it gets ground into the dirt from repetition.

OOC: Hey, trust me, I normally find all these puppets groan-worthy, but I can't exactly help it if I find one of them funny, can I?

[Araraukar]

*snip*

OOC: If that's you again, Wallenburg, I agree with SP that the joke stops being funny when it's done too often. Keep the jellyfish one, though, if you can actually RP from the POV of sapient jellyfishes.

[Umeria]

Acknowledging that the resolution put a number of measures into place which helped improve the structure and standards of quarantines;

What structure? You specifically refused to specify anything concrete about the quarantines, such as specifying they be facilities, rather than just, say, penning people like cattle.

Dismayed that 385 GA failed to cover many issues involving medical ethics, experimentation, and medicine within a quarantine;

You might want to re-phrase that as "Regretting that GA #385 did not cover the issues of medical ethics as pertaining to quarantining people". That makes you seem less petty - as it is your own resolution, "dismayed" easily makes it seem like you were blaming someone else for your failures (OOC: I TG'd you about the blame thing), whereas "regretting" means you acknowledge it was your own failure to put those things in and that you intend to fix things with a future resolution.

Questioning whether the resolution's 4-point definition of "treatment" is malleable enough to extend to treatments regarding the mental effects of a disease;

Why do you need this at all? Since the resolution is only concerned about infectious diseases - that is, physical ones - the mental effects are unlikely to be the main issue in the first place.

Believing that 385 GA is unacceptably brief regarding these matters, and skims many prominent issues central to the topic of quarantines;

Again the language thing... "Believing that GA #385 did not properly address these matters, and skimmed many prominent issues central to the topic of quarantines".

Worried that the resolution makes it extremely difficult to pass further legislation on unaddressed medical ethics problems;

I'd add "as pertaining to quarantines" to the end of that sentence.

Hoping to clear away the hastiness of 385 GA from these halls and pass a new resolution that fills the gaping hole 385 GA created;

I'd go with "Hoping to wipe GA 385 from the passed resolutions list in order to pass new legislation that will adequately address the issues involving quarantines".

Hereby repeals "Quarantine Regulation".

OOC: This one's good.

Edits made, but not the ones that are just wording preferences.

OOC: I was going to respond to the "sapient" puppet, but it appears that others already have.

[Cogoria]

Cogoria will not support a repeal. The damage it would do far out weighs the ethical dilemma that other nations inexplicably face. And another point that concerns us, from what nations would the ethics board be formed? Or would each quarantines board be formed from the nation's own medical experts? Other nations notions on ethics may be unsuitable for the task.

[Cogoria]

((Ooc: well someone has just proposed a repeal, and it is a doozy, at least your one makes sense and is worded well and aims to achieve something

Description: WA General Assembly Resolution #385: Quarantine Regulation (Category: Health; Area of Effect: Healthcare) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

Argument: Building quarantines in multi-species nations is recipe for disaster.

CONSIDERING the health hazard of introducing the infection to multiple species within a contained environment within a region,
RENDERING all multi-species quarantines inherently harmful and without use
KNOWING the standards as laid out in paragraph 4 are lacking, unclear, and incomplete,
MAKING enforcement impossible on a global scale,

I, The Empire of Apathie, hereby propose on behalf of Somewhere or another, and every region like it, to repeal this obtuse, naive, regulation. Thank you.

[Umeria]

Cogoria will not support a repeal.

You have already stated that, ambassador.

The damage it would do far out weighs the ethical dilemma that other nations inexplicably face.

The WA has been around for ages, and no one was in a hurry to pass a quarantine-related resolution until I came in. The world can survive another week without GAR#385 in place.

And another point that concerns us, from what nations would the ethics board be formed? Or would each quarantines board be formed from the nation's own medical experts? Other nations notions on ethics may be unsuitable for the task.

OOC: Aren't all committees staffed by compliance gnomes?

[Araraukar]

Edits made, but not the ones that are just wording preferences.

Why not? In resolution language nuances do matter. And accusatory language, when it's your own resolution that you're trying to repeal, makes no sense.

OOC: Aren't all committees staffed by compliance gnomes?

OOC: All WA committees are staffed by WA staff, which we refer to as "gnomes". But if a resolution demanded that every nation create its own subcommittee to work with the WA committee, then the national subcommittees would be staffed by the nation's staff.

[Umeria]

Why not? In resolution language nuances do matter.

Because it amounted to changing the clauses into past-tense, which I don't think is necessary.

And accusatory language, when it's your own resolution that you're trying to repeal, makes no sense.

What's wrong with accusing myself of writing a bad resolution?

OOC: All WA committees are staffed by WA staff, which we refer to as "gnomes". But if a resolution demanded that every nation create its own subcommittee to work with the WA committee, then the national subcommittees would be staffed by the nation's staff.

OOC: So, in this case the ethics board would be comprised of gnomes.

[Araraukar]

Why not? In resolution language nuances do matter.

Because it amounted to changing the clauses into past-tense, which I don't think is necessary.

Well re-change the language to present tense, but otherwise keep the words I used.

And accusatory language, when it's your own resolution that you're trying to repeal, makes no sense.

What's wrong with accusing myself of writing a bad resolution?

(OOC: Apart from the apparent schizophrenia or making people wonder who the hell got onto your account?) If you're actually intending to pass a replacement, an apologizing tone is better as it conveys your intent to remove the current one as a mistake you made, in order to replace it with something better.

[Umeria]

Okay, let's have another look at those suggestions. The ones I haven't implemented are:

• say "did not cover" instead of "failed to cover"
• change clause 3's examples of issues GAR#385 didn't cover into a general statement on medical ethics
• say "as pertaining to quarantining people" instead of "within a quarantine"
• say "doesn't properly address" instead of "is unacceptably brief"
• change clause 7's hall reference into a passed resolutions list reference
• say "new legislation" instead of "a new resolution"
• change "fills the gaping hole" in clause 7 to yet another "unaddressed issues" statement

How does any of that make the proposal's tone more apologetic?