[DRAFT] Repeal GAR#286 Reproductive Freedoms

[Tinfect]

I really think you should propose this resolution, FF. I think it has a lot of support unlike some of the other proposals.

OOC:
No, it absolutely does not.
No one outside of your echo chamber has expressed any support for it, and it is by no means worth submitting in this incredibly misleading state.

[Ovybia]

I really think you should propose this resolution, FF. I think it has a lot of support unlike some of the other proposals.

OOC:
No, it absolutely does not.
No one outside of your echo chamber has expressed any support for it, and it is by no means worth submitting in this incredibly misleading state.

OOC: Unfortunately, the only way I know of to judge the support of a proposal is by the response in the form. If you have a better way, I'd be glad to hear it. I realize that other resolutions like this one didn't pass but this one seems different in the sense that it's getting much more support (in the form at least). It certainly won't hurt submitting it. If it doesn't get the support, so be it; if it does, all the better, we will once again have freedom in the WA for all mankind not just the elite, the strong, or the older. (I understand that you disagree with me on this.)

[Imperium Anglorum]

elite, the strong, or the older

The Ghost of Bitely returns, echoing 'the Elites...'

[Ovybia]

elite, the strong, or the older

The Ghost of Bitely returns, echoing 'the Elites...'

Except in this case, it's really true.

[Tinfect]

OOC: Unfortunately, the only way I know of to judge the support of a proposal is by the response in the form. If you have a better way, I'd be glad to hear it.

OOC:
Listen to the GA Regulars. People like Imperium Anglorum, whatever new account JPT is running at the time, Seperatist Peoples, those sort of people. They know what they are talking about.

I realize that other resolutions like this one didn't pass but this one seems different in the sense that it's getting much more support (in the form at least).

It's not, it relies on the same misleading bullshit so many before it have tried, and its support base is the same group as before, hence, the echo chamber.

It certainly won't hurt submitting it.

It does if it gets in the way of other, worthwhile proposals.

If it doesn't get the support, so be it; if it does, all the better, we will once again have freedom in the WA for all mankind not just the elite, the strong, or the older. (I understand that you disagree with me on this.)

Have you been listening to Bitely? I hope you know he was laughed out of the GA for comments like that.
Note: I did not support that action, and while I do not think I would have preferred him to stick around, I do not think he should have been met with such hostility, even if his pathetic attempts to defend the WSA were pretty much the sole cause of it.

[Valendia]

I would vote for this.

"I imagine you would vote for a collection of ABBA lyrics if it had "Hereby repeals GAR#286" tagged on the end."

"That was one of their better singles."

"Also, OPPOSED. Our republic feels no need to support chipping away at what has demonstrated itself to be a positive social good for the sake of pseudomoral 'reasons'."

[Frustrated Franciscans]

Let's run it up the flagpole and see if anyone salutes it

[Tinfect]

(Image)

Let's run it up the flagpole and see if anyone salutes it

OOC:
I am preparing a counter-campaign as we speak. I'm not about to let an intentionally misleading proposal hit the floor.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

What's the point? He's not campaigning for it.

[Tinfect]

What's the point? He's not campaigning for it.

Less of a Counter Campaign, and more of an Anti-Campaign, I suppose.

[Frustrated Franciscans]

I am preparing a counter-campaign as we speak. I'm not about to let an intentionally misleading proposal hit the floor.

Oh sure, go ahead and do that. Now I'll never know if I would have gotten organically 2 or 5 people to approve this.

Really, I think the two people currently approving this would have approved ANYTHING.

But TAKE NOTE: Should this actually post a "counter campaign" (given my lack of a campaign) and this passes. IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!

[Tinfect]

But TAKE NOTE: Should this actually post a "counter campaign" (given my lack of a campaign) and this passes. IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!

OOC:
If that happens, I'll author a replacement myself.

[Normlpeople]

"You are going to need better arguments. Most of the repeal attempts have narrowed down to a handful of points. Those being:
1) The fetus, despite being a literal definition of parasite, is somehow a person
2) This allowing late term abortions
3) Its the blessing of some benevolent higher being and shouldn't be messed with.

To be blunt, the combination of other legislation addresses the flaws in these points, without going into the social, economical and emotional hardships resulting from forcing care of a child on someone who is not prepared or capible of the responsibility.

I would suggest thinking with your heads and not your hearts on this one.

[Frustrated Franciscans]

OOC:
If that happens, I'll author a replacement myself.

OOC:
I'd rather have anything from you than this one.

Those being:
1) The fetus, despite being a literal definition of parasite, is somehow a person

NO, not the literal definition of a parasite (an organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense). I won't go into the details of the relationship between the fetus and the mother (in terms of medical studies) but stem cells from the fetus routinely pass into the host mother and like most rogue stem cells wind up accumulating and repairing wounded organs in the mother's body. Likewise, hormone regulation between fetus and mother also result to the adjusting of cells in the mother's breasts from potentially cancer prone cells to non cancer prone cells. A full term pregnancy is a wonderful thing for a woman.

And what has that to do with being a person in the first place? Does being on life support because you are waiting a heart transplant, or being on dialysis because you are waiting a kidney transplant make you a non person? That's a dumb argument to make. Yes, you may have already been born but you could easily go on a system for life support and I wouldn't want people to decide to off you because that means you aren't a person anymore.

2) This allowing late term abortions

The other resolution "allowed" late term abortions; this forces the issue. That's annoying from a nat sov point (or as my Catholic mindset would insist from a subsidiarity standpoint) but not the basis for a repeal.

3) Its the blessing of some benevolent higher being and shouldn't be messed with.

I don't think I even mention a higher being in this repeal.

I just think this is a crappy resolution.

I would not object to a replacement, (with the normal nat sov objections) but I don't like the resolution as written.

Seriously: Use your head here and not your heart. What the hell is "termination of pregnancy?"

"MANDATES that Member Nations recognise the right of all individuals to have their pregnancies terminated through safe, openly accessible procedures"

Hate to tell you this, but technically speaking, a C Section terminates a pregnancy. The procedure is safe. It is openly accessible.

Thus under this resolution there is nothing to prevent a nation from requiring a potentially post viable fetus to be "terminated" through C Section.

Is that what you want from a resolution like this?

I have a plethora of similar objections to this resolution, but they don't make arguments that would appeal the casual observer.

EDIT: I totally forgot to mention I have 10 approvals ... well one is my regional delegate so let's say that I have well over a half dozen.

[Separatist Peoples]

The Ghost of Bitely returns, echoing 'the Elites...'

Except in this case, it's really true.

OOC: in what possible fantasy world would that be so?

[Frustrated Franciscans]

OOC: in what possible fantasy world would that be so?

OOC: Vampire the Masquerade perhaps? Not the latest version, this calls for a Ventrue, preferably one in topor.

[John Turner]

What's the point? He's not campaigning for it.

Less of a Counter Campaign, and more of an Anti-Campaign, I suppose.

OOC: Haven't you pissed off enough people with your endless campaigns yet? Someone else sends out a campaign telegram and is told to get lost because of that whole debacle with the WSA repeal. The delegates are already pissed off enough as it stands.

[Let's run it up the flagpole and see if anyone salutes it

The Federation would be fully willing to support this, IF and only IF it is replaced by a blocker leaving this matter solely to the discretion of individual nations.

[Frustrated Franciscans]

The Federation would be fully willing to support this, IF and only IF it is replaced by a blocker leaving this matter solely to the discretion of individual nations.

Wouldn't that be kind of hard given that you are basically doing a minor tweak of GA #128?

"INSISTS that all member nations retain the ability to legalize abortion for purposes not covered under the preceding clauses either unilaterally within their own jurisdiction or collectively through World Assembly resolution."

Basically #128 only allows the WA to "legalize" abortion and not prevent its legalization by the WA. I suspect such a blocker cannot be written while #128 is on the books and I don't think it's ever going to be possible to repeal #128.

[Frustrated Franciscans]

I would like to thank the 25 delegates who approved by not campaigned proposal.

Approvals: 25 (The Fatheland, Confederal American Republic, Christian Democrats, The Arkam Asylum, The Brotherhood of Kyro, Saq, 1-502nd Airborne Inf, Pierconium, Baccalieu, Allinburg, Lesser Whiteside, Tapp, HYDRA-Russian Empire, Auremena, Tribes Republic, Nava Siam, Eastern Washingtonia, Snowy Peninsula Minister, The Federation of North America, Tutukerala, Phydios, It burns it burns, Dagnia, Architeuthis, Themightymanuel)

This went well beyond my expectations.

Now that step1 has been accomplished ... get ready for the OCTOBER SURPRISE!

[Flawdom]

I would like to thank the 25 delegates who approved by not campaigned proposal.

Approvals: 25 (The Fatheland, Confederal American Republic, Christian Democrats, The Arkam Asylum, The Brotherhood of Kyro, Saq, 1-502nd Airborne Inf, Pierconium, Baccalieu, Allinburg, Lesser Whiteside, Tapp, HYDRA-Russian Empire, Auremena, Tribes Republic, Nava Siam, Eastern Washingtonia, Snowy Peninsula Minister, The Federation of North America, Tutukerala, Phydios, It burns it burns, Dagnia, Architeuthis, Themightymanuel)

This went well beyond my expectations.

Now that step1 has been accomplished ... get ready for the OCTOBER SURPRISE!

People actually approved of this piece of filth? No matter, it shall be defeated in normal voting.

[Wallenburg]

I would like to thank the 25 delegates who approved by not campaigned proposal.

Approvals: 25 (The Fatheland, Confederal American Republic, Christian Democrats, The Arkam Asylum, The Brotherhood of Kyro, Saq, 1-502nd Airborne Inf, Pierconium, Baccalieu, Allinburg, Lesser Whiteside, Tapp, HYDRA-Russian Empire, Auremena, Tribes Republic, Nava Siam, Eastern Washingtonia, Snowy Peninsula Minister, The Federation of North America, Tutukerala, Phydios, It burns it burns, Dagnia, Architeuthis, Themightymanuel)

This went well beyond my expectations.

Now that step1 has been accomplished ... get ready for the OCTOBER SURPRISE!

People actually approved of this piece of filth? No matter, it shall be defeated in normal voting.

It won't get enough approvals for a vote.

[Stellonia]

People actually approved of this piece of filth? No matter, it shall be defeated in normal voting.

It won't get enough approvals for a vote.

OOC: It might, depending upon what Frustrated Franciscans means by "October Surprise." Trust me; I honestly don't know what he means.

[Separatist Peoples]

It won't get enough approvals for a vote.

OOC: It might, depending upon what Frustrated Franciscans means by "October Surprise." Trust me; I honestly don't know what he means.

Ooc: he's gonna have to fight against a ton of counter campaigns, in all probability, as well as a MouseStomp.

[Valendia]

It won't get enough approvals for a vote.

OOC: It might, depending upon what Frustrated Franciscans means by "October Surprise." Trust me; I honestly don't know what he means.

OOC: I suspect a protracted campaign of questionable resolutions with the goal of banning abortion at the WA level.

[Flawdom]

OOC: It might, depending upon what Frustrated Franciscans means by "October Surprise." Trust me; I honestly don't know what he means.

OOC: I suspect a protracted campaign of questionable resolutions with the goal of banning abortion at the WA level.

OOC: Well damn. Regardless, it doesn't look like it's going to get enough approvals anyway.