[DRAFT] International Counterfeit Law

[District XIV]

How does this resolution "increase police and military budgets"?

Okay, what do you say it should be in? Part 6 is why I put it in International Security.

I don't have any suggestions regarding the proper category.

Although, no other part of the proposal addresses 'international security' except 'Part 6', meaning this does not belong in said category.

[Balenderg]

Okay, what do you say it should be in? Part 6 is why I put it in International Security.

I don't have any suggestions regarding the proper category.

Although, no other part of the proposal addresses 'international security' except 'Part 6', meaning this does not belong in said category.

What should I do, then?

[Jarish Inyo]

I'm not sure about this, but I think clause 6 may be illegal. I recall that the WA is not permitted to create law enforce units in any.

Also, you may want to make amendments for nations that do not use physical currency.

[Chester Pearson]

Since when did essays become proposals?

[Balenderg]

I'm not sure about this, but I think clause 6 may be illegal. I recall that the WA is not permitted to create law enforce units in any.

Also, you may want to make amendments for nations that do not use physical currency.

It's not a law enforcement unit, it assists them. And I do recall making a small part of amendment 4 or 5 that involved using Flash Drives as wallets for non-physical currencies, and making there be digital to physical converter USB ports on ATMs and Bank Teller Computers.

[Balenderg]

Since when did essays become proposals?

I do not care. It is written like other proposals, it does just not have the outline.

[Chester Pearson]

Since when did essays become proposals?

I do not care. It is written like other proposals, it does just not have the outline.

Uh huh... Okay, have at it. When it falls apart, don't say you weren't warned. Also this is NOT International Security. Maybe this could be RE-WRITTEN (in the proper format) as Free Trade...

[Balenderg]

I do not care. It is written like other proposals, it does just not have the outline.

Uh huh... Okay, have at it. When it falls apart, don't say you weren't warned. Also this is NOT International Security. Maybe this could be RE-WRITTEN (in the proper format) as Free Trade...

Ok, thanks for the constructive criticism, but how can I improve it? It fits in to both International Security and Free trade, because it increases trade and creates anti-counterfeit measures. Also, so glad to find someone who realizes that Socialism is not Communism!

[Bananaistan]

We would strongly recommend that the proposing ambassador cleans up the proposal significantly. Each clause includes unnecessary arguments in favour of the proposal which should not be included in the proposal proper and should either be restated as arguments in favour of the proposal or incorporated as in preambular clauses. There is also an awful lot of micro-management. As an example we will break down clause 1:

1- All member nations must use some Microprinting on their money, to slow down counterfeiting.
First part of sentence is a requirement, second part is a reason for passing it. It doesn't need to be included.

The microprinting may be done in any way, shape, or form.
Unnecessary micro-management.

All nations must submit there microprinting pattern to a Microprint Database, which will have a secure unlock password, but microprinting patterns will be revealed to the public, and it must be easy to tell the difference between a real one and the average fake, not necessarily exquisite fakes for they may be exactly the same as the real ones.
Appears like a lot of micro-management but at least the first bit is a "normal" requirement. Not that we agree with the idea though, we're perfectly capable of printing our currency with our own security measures.

Metal Shine and security strips may also be used on currency in order to decrease counterfeiting further. For those who did not know, Metal shine is where in the minting process the government puts tiny flakes of metal on the dollar bill, so when looked at in certain light, it will shine. Often times counterfeit currencies do not have this, so it is easier to tell between fake and real currency.
This all seems like unnecessary fluff and explanation.

We would note that the current format of clause 3 appears to create a WA central bank as the "global Bureau of Currency Minting & Inflation shall ... help nations with national deficit, inflation ..." Nobody will support this.

OOC: It was quite hard to follow the debate as the OP has been continuously updated and yet only has one draft. It would be helpful if each update was posted as a new draft in the OP with the older drafts hidden in spoiler tags.

[Bears Armed]

"How does one "microprint" onto metallic coins, let alone onto quantities of liquid honey?!?
"And what about situations where an item used as currency in one nation would normally be regarded merely as rubbish in others? for example, I can remember the membership within this organisation's predecessor of a nation that used crushed beer cans as currency!"

OOC
Anyhows the proposal's current wording is illegal for [at least] breaking the rules about committees, RL references, and branding. Also, it is significantly over the maximum length allowed (which is approximately 3’500 characters, including spaces).

[Balenderg]

:blink:
"How does one "microprint" onto metallic coins, let alone onto quantities of liquid honey?!?
"And what about situations where an item used as currency in one nation would normally be regarded merely as rubbish in others? for example, I can remember the membership within this organisation's predecessor of a nation that used crushed beer cans as currency!"

OOC
Anyhows the proposal's current wording is illegal for [at least] breaking the rules about committees, RL references, and branding. Also, it is significantly over the maximum length allowed (which is approximately 3’500 characters, including spaces).

Who heck is going to counterfeit a coin? Unless it is used as a dollar, then I suppose you could use some kind of special indentation or something. Whereas, who would use Honey as their currency?

[Honor and Glory]

Whereas, who would use Honey as their currency?

"You are talking to a Bear. One would assume a Bear would value Honey enough to use it as a currency"

[Balenderg]

We would strongly recommend that the proposing ambassador cleans up the proposal significantly. Each clause includes unnecessary arguments in favour of the proposal which should not be included in the proposal proper and should either be restated as arguments in favour of the proposal or incorporated as in preambular clauses. There is also an awful lot of micro-management. As an example we will break down clause 1:

1- All member nations must use some Microprinting on their money, to slow down counterfeiting.
First part of sentence is a requirement, second part is a reason for passing it. It doesn't need to be included.

The microprinting may be done in any way, shape, or form.
Unnecessary micro-management.

All nations must submit there microprinting pattern to a Microprint Database, which will have a secure unlock password, but microprinting patterns will be revealed to the public, and it must be easy to tell the difference between a real one and the average fake, not necessarily exquisite fakes for they may be exactly the same as the real ones.
Appears like a lot of micro-management but at least the first bit is a "normal" requirement. Not that we agree with the idea though, we're perfectly capable of printing our currency with our own security measures.

Metal Shine and security strips may also be used on currency in order to decrease counterfeiting further. For those who did not know, Metal shine is where in the minting process the government puts tiny flakes of metal on the dollar bill, so when looked at in certain light, it will shine. Often times counterfeit currencies do not have this, so it is easier to tell between fake and real currency.
This all seems like unnecessary fluff and explanation.

We would note that the current format of clause 3 appears to create a WA central bank as the "global Bureau of Currency Minting & Inflation shall ... help nations with national deficit, inflation ..." Nobody will support this.

OOC: It was quite hard to follow the debate as the OP has been continuously updated and yet only has one draft. It would be helpful if each update was posted as a new draft in the OP with the older drafts hidden in spoiler tags.

OOC: I already edited it, and there is no way I am retyping each draft. I'll save copies of each draft now, but not older ones.

[Balenderg]

Whereas, who would use Honey as their currency?

"You are talking to a Bear. One would assume a Bear would value Honey enough to use it as a currency"

A Bear? So you think I should add a special part so that BEARS are covered for counterfeiting problems? How the heck do you even counterfeit honey anyways?

[Balenderg]

:blink:
"How does one "microprint" onto metallic coins, let alone onto quantities of liquid honey?!?
"And what about situations where an item used as currency in one nation would normally be regarded merely as rubbish in others? for example, I can remember the membership within this organisation's predecessor of a nation that used crushed beer cans as currency!"

OOC
Anyhows the proposal's current wording is illegal for [at least] breaking the rules about committees, RL references, and branding. Also, it is significantly over the maximum length allowed (which is approximately 3’500 characters, including spaces).

There, I fixed up the characters for you.

[Honor and Glory]

8- Coins should use some kind of Indentation system to make them harder to counterfeit.

OOC - You should strengthen the wording on this part, right now its optional and isn't requiring nations to do anything which I've seen get chewed up and shot down in other proposals.

[Balenderg]

8- Coins should use some kind of Indentation system to make them harder to counterfeit.

OOC - You should strengthen the wording on this part, right now its optional and isn't requiring nations to do anything which I've seen get chewed up and shot down in other proposals.

OOC: It requires them to do some stuff. Every time I make some stuff people have to do, a bunch of people come and just say "NO ONE WILL EVER ACCEPT THAT!" And start being jerks, and not telling me how to improve it other than to abolish the suggestion.

[Honor and Glory]

OOC - You should strengthen the wording on this part, right now its optional and isn't requiring nations to do anything which I've seen get chewed up and shot down in other proposals.

It requires them to do some stuff. Every time I make some stuff people have to do, a bunch of people come and just say "NO ONE WILL EVER ACCEPT THAT!" And start being jerks, and not telling me how to improve it other than to abolish the suggestion.

OOC - you have to remember there are thousands of nations in NS with differing views on how things have to be done so you will never have something were everyone says YAY LETS DO THAT, you are going to go against people who don't agree with what you are proposing, you can either fight them about it, counter their views and see if you can swing them around to your train of thought or abandon that part of the proposal. also a lot of what you are reading is IC and some people play their character as hardasses.

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC - You should strengthen the wording on this part, right now its optional and isn't requiring nations to do anything which I've seen get chewed up and shot down in other proposals.

It requires them to do some stuff. Every time I make some stuff people have to do, a bunch of people come and just say "NO ONE WILL EVER ACCEPT THAT!" And start being jerks, and not telling me how to improve it other than to abolish the suggestion.

"Maybe you should consider that we're right. Anyways, the General Assembly included members who are sapient bears, Weasels, plants, microorganisms, some fairies, a couple elves, extraterrestrials, and beings of pure energy. We take into account their existence, too. While one cannot easily counterfeit honey, neither can one microimprint it. This raises an excellent point to those nations which utilize a barter system. How does one counterfeit-proof a bartered service? Should nations be required to accept raw resources at retail outlets, since they qualify as currency in the nation of origin? The entire concept is, currently, unworkable. I suggest you take some time to familiarize yourself with the debate process and GA environment before trying to draft legislation."

[Balenderg]

It requires them to do some stuff. Every time I make some stuff people have to do, a bunch of people come and just say "NO ONE WILL EVER ACCEPT THAT!" And start being jerks, and not telling me how to improve it other than to abolish the suggestion.

OOC - you have to remember there are thousands of nations in NS with differing views on how things have to be done so you will never have something were everyone says YAY LETS DO THAT, you are going to go against people who don't agree with what you are proposing, you can either fight them about it, counter their views and see if you can swing them around to your train of thought or abandon that part of the proposal. also a lot of what you are reading is IC and some people play their character as hardasses.

OOC: Yeah, I got it.

[Balenderg]

It requires them to do some stuff. Every time I make some stuff people have to do, a bunch of people come and just say "NO ONE WILL EVER ACCEPT THAT!" And start being jerks, and not telling me how to improve it other than to abolish the suggestion.

"Maybe you should consider that we're right. Anyways, the General Assembly included members who are sapient bears, Weasels, plants, microorganisms, some fairies, a couple elves, extraterrestrials, and beings of pure energy. We take into account their existence, too. While one cannot easily counterfeit honey, neither can one microimprint it. This raises an excellent point to those nations which utilize a barter system. How does one counterfeit-proof a bartered service? Should nations be required to accept raw resources at retail outlets, since they qualify as currency in the nation of origin? The entire concept is, currently, unworkable. I suggest you take some time to familiarize yourself with the debate process and GA environment before trying to draft legislation."

OOC: I've gotten familiar with the GA environment, just not too much for the debate.

[Balenderg]

It requires them to do some stuff. Every time I make some stuff people have to do, a bunch of people come and just say "NO ONE WILL EVER ACCEPT THAT!" And start being jerks, and not telling me how to improve it other than to abolish the suggestion.

OOC - you have to remember there are thousands of nations in NS with differing views on how things have to be done so you will never have something were everyone says YAY LETS DO THAT, you are going to go against people who don't agree with what you are proposing, you can either fight them about it, counter their views and see if you can swing them around to your train of thought or abandon that part of the proposal. also a lot of what you are reading is IC and some people play their character as hardasses.

OOC: I didn't expect people to just jump on board and say YAY LETS DO THAT, and I thought most of the forums were OOC.

[Honor and Glory]

OOC - you have to remember there are thousands of nations in NS with differing views on how things have to be done so you will never have something were everyone says YAY LETS DO THAT, you are going to go against people who don't agree with what you are proposing, you can either fight them about it, counter their views and see if you can swing them around to your train of thought or abandon that part of the proposal. also a lot of what you are reading is IC and some people play their character as hardasses.

I didn't expect people to just jump on board and say YAY LETS DO THAT, and I thought most of the forums were OOC.

OOC - Unless its tag in the post as OOC like I've been doing assume everything you read is IC.

[The Dark Star Republic]

OOC: Could I suggest, at a minimum, you actually criminalise counterfeiting? Which technical measure is implemented seems much less pressing than actually establishing a legal prohibition on passing forged currency.

[Separatist Peoples]

I've gotten familiar with the GA environment, just not too much for the debate.

OOC: clearly not, or you would have known about the bear, plants, and elves. Or that the GA is an IC forum. Participate In debates for a few week or so before trying to draft anything.