[DEFEATED] Fertile Farmland Protection Act

[Normlpeople]

OOC: Forcing this to quorum to win a pissing contest was a spiteful, childish move.

OOC: Agreed. How much of a difference the 'environment is good man' crowd made is open to question too. In any case, a in-head repeal was easily written and will be posted should this piece of trash be in danger of passing.

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: Goddammit, CP. Just...Goddammit.

[Chester Pearson]

OOC: Forcing this to quorum to win a pissing contest was a spiteful, childish move.

OOC: It wasn't me! Everyone just needs to calm the fuck down okay? The author in his wisdom decided to telegram it into quorum with stamps, which leads me to believe we are not dealing with a newbie here:

The Grand Duchy of Luxembourgers → tag: delegates, tag: newdelegates100
5 hours ago
Dear World Assembly Delegate,
If you have not already, I ask that you please approve my General Assembly proposal titled "Fertile Farmland Protection".
This act requires that farmers take care of the soil they plant crops on, which is important because if the farmland goes bad, crops can no longer be grown from it, and part of a forest must be cut down to replace that farmland.
This is a big international issue because without it, trees will be cut down, people will go hungry, and international trade will be hurt as well.
I am asking YOU to approve my proposal HERE for the sake of the forests, the sake of the people, and the sake of international trade.
To approve, just click the link, read the resolution, and, if you like it, click "approve" at the bottom of the page.
Let's end this drought of WA resolutions!
Thank you so, so much!
The Grand Duchy of Luxembourgers
PS I sincerely apologize to those of you who have received this message twice.

The Grand Duchy of Luxembourgers → Alossa, Kikpar, The Democratic Nation of Unovia, Chester Pearson, Russian Fedration, Matthew Hargreaves, Theoniatium, Taslantis, New Carloso, Genesis Fifteen, Great Jergania and Jonland, The Lands of Dixie, Sulomin, Absurrania, Northern Thermonia, (3 more...)
3 hours ago
Dear Delegates,
Thank you so much for approving my proposal!!! Thanks to you guys my proposal will make the floor to be voted on by all of the World Assembly! I would like to thank each and every one of you for your support, and if any of you need a vote in the future, send a telegram my way and I'll help you out if I can.
Thanks again guys,
The Grand Duchy of Luxembourgers

May I remind everyone that if you are not privy to receiving campaign telegrams, one should not start throwing accusations without some evidence....

As it stands the whole thing is illegal anyway, as it does not require "nations" to do shit. This affects farmers, and does not require nations to change their laws. GHR filed....

[The Dark Star Republic]

OOC: I apologise.

[Wrapper]

OOC: To be fair, CP, my ambassador did say that you looked innocent.

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: Forcing this to quorum to win a pissing contest was a spiteful, childish move.

OOC: It wasn't me! Everyone just needs to calm the fuck down okay? The author in his wisdom decided to telegram it into quorum with stamps, which leads me to believe we are not dealing with a newbie here:

OOC: Well, what the hell do you expect after stating you were gonna push it to vote to make a point? Certainly it was more likely then this...at any rate, I apologize as well. I still don't quite get how the author can be savvy enough to get it to vote and have so little understanding of the subject material...

[Chester Pearson]

OOC: It wasn't me! Everyone just needs to calm the fuck down okay? The author in his wisdom decided to telegram it into quorum with stamps, which leads me to believe we are not dealing with a newbie here:

OOC: Well, what the hell do you expect after stating you were gonna push it to vote to make a point? Certainly it was more likely then this...at any rate, I apologize as well. I still don't quite get how the author can be savvy enough to get it to vote and have so little understanding of the subject material...

Stamps for the win!

[Christian Democrats]

I would like to know why moderation ignored the challenge I filed against this proposal almost a day ago.

Last time I checked, soil depletion does not pose "an extreme hazard to national populations" by any stretch of the imagination given the existence of artificial fertilizer. Why isn't a resolution this Assembly recently voted to retain being enforced?

http://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_past_resolutions/council=1?start=67

[Chester Pearson]

Why was this permitted to go to vote? It is illegal as it does not require NATIONS to do anything!

OOC: Moderation is becoming unbelievable as of late. I have a proposal with almost double the amount of approvals needed for quorum deleted 10 minutes from vote, yet this is allowed to go to vote, even when a legality challenge is filed days in advance? Almost makes you want to puke doesn't it?

[Normlpeople]

OOC: On the flip side, the vote is hardly going well. The lemming effect should take care of this one, even after the environmentalists show up.

[Imperium Californium]

The Captain General of Imperium Californium, in close communion with our national allies the Ard Righ of Epoch Galmorra and Censor of Kaiserholt (OoC: my nations, not in the WA ), cannot call for a vote AGAINST this resolution firmly enough. Having each of us firm existing laws within our nations towards the use of such things as polyculture, three field system, fallow land, and rotation of new growth tree copses to support sustainable lumber industry, there is no further need in our nations for this legislation. To have common sense imposed upon any nation, other than through the traditional...forced annexation into our glorious nations...would be seen as abhorant. We will thus not bend to any WA attempts to impose governance upon us in this way.

Now, if the WA authorizes FFPA nations that vote for this resolution to annex nations that oppose, well...we can possibly see our way towards changing Imperium Californium's vote.

[Imperium Californium]

Why was this permitted to go to vote? It is illegal as it does not require NATIONS to do anything!

OOC: Moderation is becoming unbelievable as of late. I have a proposal with almost double the amount of approvals needed for quorum deleted 10 minutes from vote, yet this is allowed to go to vote, even when a legality challenge is filed days in advance? Almost makes you want to puke doesn't it?

OoC: but then you make it difficult for those who RP unsavory nations to act...well, unsavory.

[Goddess Relief Office]

Why was this permitted to go to vote? It is illegal as it does not require NATIONS to do anything!

At first glance it might have run afoul of the "just a committee" rule, but on second look, clause 2 ("Restricts professional farmers...") saves it from that particular illegality.

Nevertheless, I do agree with you and the others who said that this is poorly written and not ready for submission. Also I can verify that it wasn't Chester who pushed this to vote. It was the author who stamped telegrammed this.

~GRO~

[Afro-Euasia]

The leaded fuel has already weaken the private sector,but to stop a growing sector down to a halt then decrease,From what it stands,I am opposed,Even if this act is passed,it will not help the nature of the farmland from healthy country,It will only reduce the farms o

OOC:Why does it even matter,why are we even having this debate

[Louisistan]

OOC: Are you f*cking kidding me? I filed a GHR on this an estimated 18 hours before it went to vote. Is there a minimum timeframe I need to adhere to for having illegal proposals removed from the queue? Seriously this should not have made it to quorum, regardless of stamps and telegrams. This is simply illegal.

[Panait]

...for having illegal proposals removed from the queue?...This is simply illegal.

Please elaborate how this is illegal to this newbie.

[Jakuso]

Yakus will be standing firmly AGAINST this proposal. Experts in the business tell me that this proposal is completely wrong and that crops can be grown in the same field year after year if certain fertilisation techniques are used, such as field mucking etc. Also, this is not the business of the WA so why is it here? And farmers would really struggle if this came into force.

[Louisistan]

...for having illegal proposals removed from the queue?...This is simply illegal.

Please elaborate how this is illegal to this newbie.

Johannes Keller, Legislative Director for the Louisistanian Delegation: "Gladly! But first, please accept this box of wine, we found standing around in the corridors as a welcoming present. Welcome to the WA, Ambassador.

As you might know (and logic dictates) a resolution must not contradict any other resolution. With that in mind, let's have a look atGeneral Assembly Resolution #68 'National Economic Freedoms':
This resolution forbids the WA from regulating commerce, unless the enterprise causes an extreme hazard to national populations, meaning that a proposal regulating commerce would in some way need to demonstrate that what it tries to regulate somehow poses such a hazard.

Now, one might think that growing crops does not really fall under commerce, but the resolution defines commerce as the sale, production, and consumption of a product or service. And since agriculture is in fact the production of food (or a part of the production of food) it falls within the scope of GAR #68 and is thus purview of national legislation unless the already mentioned hazard is demonstrated.

Nothing in the proposal at vote explains how not adhereing to the standards it proposes would caue extreme hazard to national populations.

There are also legality concerns because the resolution does not force WA member nations to do anything but rather forces farmers (and for that matter home gardeners) to do something. I am not sure whether this is indeed an illegality but it is highly irregular. Normally a resolution directs the WA member nations to do something, which they in turn incorporate in their national laws.

We submitted the concerns regarding GAR #68 to the Secretariat but no ruling was promulgated. Instead, the proposal was allowed to reach quorum and pass to a vote."

[Flamels Stone]

OOC(All Post just because I don't want to get in the Rp stuff yet):I'm a newbie myself, just giving my opinion here, I would like Non-aggressive feedback,please.

We need to protect our natural ,vegetation covered, zones.They are habitats and are the ''lungs of the world''.Soil erosion and desertification are becoming a big problem,because they are irreversible(most of the time),and are caused by both soil overuse(agriculture) and soil exposion(deforestation).And Agriculture also leads into more deforestation.For example in Brazil,for the production of bio-fuel(sugarcane I believe) they burn the Amazon so they can have more plots.And It's true that when a plot of land ''goes bad'' SOME people will burn green zones to replace them.

Furthermore we need to tend our land, and our fertile ground so that we don't need to get more.Its true that there are fertilizers,but if they are not natural, they would just bring up new issues(ground pollution, water pollution).
Its true that some plats enrich the soil rather than depleting it.But if you want to enrich the soil with these to then use it,aren't you rotating crops?Also crop rotation may neither be possible or beneficial in some cases,but in many it is,that's why it should be only encouraged.I myself think we woul save plot area with hydroponics,but In development Countries can't afford the technology.
Also I think policulture(different crops at the same time on the same plot) should be mentioned, its less efficient in harvest but I believe(correct me if wrong)it's not so soil depleting.

As for the definition of professional farmer:
It's true that someone with 1acre (or even10) may not be one ,but you have to think about individual value.Theese people with small plots are just drops in a sea,and have a big effect.So they should follow regulations too.

Finally I know there are exceptions to everything, so please mention them when (if)you answer me please.

Note:I agree that this proposal,and now resolution should have been more tough trough.But the idea is there.So I abstained, and seeing the current vote count ,when its refused I hope someone works on it afterward.
Also sorry for any mistakes of english or on some terms.

[Louisistan]

OOC:
All that you have said is true ... in real life.

Real Life, however, is not NS. In NationStates (and especially in the WA) not all nations live on the same planet and not all nations are on the same level of technology. Thus, there are a great many nations here who have the necessary technology to re-use their farmland through fertilization, which makes the measures suggested in the proposal undesireable for them. Also, you cannot assume that just because in RL, forests are burned, the same is done in NS. In fact, that is not even true everywhere in RL. In Germany for example, no one would have the idea to burn down a forest to get farmland. That is a practice only pursued in developing, tropical nations.

The proposal may be well intentioned. But it is aimed at a problem which seemingly does not even exist in most nations in NationStates. Also, the author didn't make any friends when he belligerently refused any advice and pushed the proposal to a vote although everyone told him that it wasn't ready.

[Kiptoke-Ruselia]

In Belomirsk, the Capitol of the Commonwealth:

Delegate Tylor Rymskap: "Very simply, while we do believe this was sent with good intentions, the resolution fails to take into effect basic logic of agriculture. Continual crop replacement means that the entire wine industry and fruit industry are now basically impossible, and some areas can easily replenish nutrients, with the use of rivers and some other natural circumstances."

Therefore, the Commonwealth of Kiptoke-Ruselia will be voting AGAINST this resolution.

[The Dark Star Republic]

As you might know (and logic dictates) a resolution must not contradict any other resolution. With that in mind, let's have a look atGeneral Assembly Resolution #68 'National Economic Freedoms':
This resolution forbids the WA from regulating commerce, unless the enterprise causes an extreme hazard to national populations,

OOC: You may want your legislative director to have another look at that resolution, because that's not what it says.

REQUIRES that no commerce be generally restricted by the WA unless...[t]he enterprise causes an extreme hazard to national populations

Based on the relevant ruling, my guess would be that arguing that this proposal doesn't "generally restrict" commerce is the wiggle room. That said, I agree with the general sentiment that the lack of public comment on the legality of this proposal is a little strange.

[Ardchoille]

Re the legality challenges based on National Economic Freedoms: the player met the technical requirements of that Resolution by describing the hazards of soil depletion. Whether he met the GA's requirements is a call for the GA to make (which you appear to be doing rather emphatically).

Edit: The lack of public comment was caused by mods' respective timetables. You have it now.

Edit 2: On the "generally restricting commerce" point DS raised; it wasn't submitted in the legality challenges, so wasn't addressed. However, as a personal comment, I'd agree with your assessment.

Worth considering is the fact that the Environmental category itself is described as "A resolution to increase the quality of the world's environment, at the expense of industry". We're not likely to read "restricting commerce" as so broad that it wipes out an entire category that causes costs to industry.

[Krankor]

Something was mentioned about urination on remains? Someone should be arrested for this transgressioN!

The proposal mentions nothing about liquid crop fertilization.

[The Dark Star Republic]

Worth considering is the fact that the Environmental category itself is described as "A resolution to increase the quality of the world's environment, at the expense of industry". We're not likely to read "restricting commerce" as so broad that it wipes out an entire category that causes costs to industry.

It doesn't wipe out an entire category, like UNSA didn't wipe out the Global Disarmament category.

Anyway, I think this ruling is further evidence of how NEF is a totally useless resolution that should be repealed as it quite clearly doesn't do what was intended, but will leave that argument to another thread.