[Abandoned] International Auxiliary Language Establishment

[Pronunshaa]

OOC: There are countries in nationstates that I am aware of that do speak Esperanto. As far as never heard it, that is true, but a common language for all of the World Assembly would be much more efficient. Even if the only the leaders of the countries in the World assembly knew it then that would save cost on translators and other translation problems. Im not saying everyone learn Esperanto in real life. I am simple stating that if Esperanto was used it would be a lot more efficient. Look at the United Nations in RL they have to translate every single arguement and speech between countries. Assuming that this is the case for the World Assembly that method is very unefficient.

OOC: The issue there is you are picking essentially an arbitrary language and forcing all ambassadors and staff to learn it. I don't believe it is inefficient, since the translation matrix within the WA headquarters is automated and instant...

OOC: This is not the arguement I am making in the resolution. I am just talking about how an international auxiliary language would fix problems with international diplomacy.

[Kranstentistan]

There's no reason for the WA to recognize Esperanto. There are literally thousands of other countries that have languages that remain unacknowledged by the WA. Esperanto is an awful attempt at a universal language anyway.

[Pronunshaa]

OOC: Keep in mind that is not my intent. I was stating that out of context. I am just saying that when you have thousands of languages at a conference, how much time is lost in translation. Plus meaning of a word in one language could not mean the same in another thus causing misunderstandings.

Ah, understood. Carry on.

Long story short, Esperanto is easy to learn for majority of people and it's whole reason for creation is to preserve the culture of the people who use it. It is not intended to be a first language, but a second that allows a native russian to speak to a native frenchman without either person learning eachother's language. It was and is for the promotion of peace and traditions intact.

[Kranstentistan]

Ah, understood. Carry on.

Long story short, Esperanto is easy to learn for majority of people and it's whole reason for creation is to preserve the culture of the people who use it. It is not intended to be a first language, but a second that allows a native russian to speak to a native frenchman without either person learning eachother's language. It was and is for the promotion of peace and traditions intact.

No Esperanto can't be easily learned by the majority of the population. Esperanto only borrows from European languages, while East and South Asian languages remain untouched, thus the majority of the population will not find it easy to learn it.

[Pronunshaa]

There's no reason for the WA to recognize Esperanto. There are literally thousands of other countries that have languages that remain unacknowledged by the WA. Esperanto is an awful attempt at a universal language anyway.

Yes, native languages that are not IALs. You are entitled to that opinion but it doesn't mean anything to my resolution. OOC: If you have nothing constuctive to say then you can just be quiet and wait for the "Vote Against" button. Good day sir.

[Kranstentistan]

There's no reason for the WA to recognize Esperanto. There are literally thousands of other countries that have languages that remain unacknowledged by the WA. Esperanto is an awful attempt at a universal language anyway.

Yes, native languages that are not IALs. You are entitled to that opinion but it doesn't mean anything to my resolution. OOC: If you have nothing constuctive to say then you can just be quiet and wait for the "Vote Against" button. Good day sir.

I did leave something constructive above this comment.

[Pronunshaa]

Long story short, Esperanto is easy to learn for majority of people and it's whole reason for creation is to preserve the culture of the people who use it. It is not intended to be a first language, but a second that allows a native russian to speak to a native frenchman without either person learning eachother's language. It was and is for the promotion of peace and traditions intact.

No Esperanto can't be easily learned by the majority of the population. Esperanto only borrows from European languages, and the East and South Asian languages remain untouched, thus the majority of the population will not find it easy to learn it.

Well it is not any more difficult than learning English is it? In fact it would still be easier. Actually, you tell me what is easier. Thousands of languages both European and Asian? Or one unified European language and the rest of the asian? Hmmm.

[Kranstentistan]

No Esperanto can't be easily learned by the majority of the population. Esperanto only borrows from European languages, and the East and South Asian languages remain untouched, thus the majority of the population will not find it easy to learn it.

Well it is not any more difficult than learning English is it? In fact it would still be easier. Actually, you tell me what is easier. Thousands of languages both European and Asian? Or one unified European language and the rest of the asian? Hmmm.

If Esperanto was proposed as a universal language of Europe and the Americas, then I would agree, but this is a proposal for a worldwide universal language, and no, it's unlikely that your average Chinese, Iranian or Indonesian would find learning a language as radically different from their native language as English easy, so it's just as unlikely, if not more so that your average Chinese, Iranian or Indonesian will find learning Esperanto easy. If a universal language borrows only from European languages, and ignores all the other languages spoken by ~60% of the world's population, then I don't think it's rash to say that such a language failed at it's proposed duty. Either way, you go about it, a truly universal language will be hard to learn for everyone, but it's lazy to make a universal language that's only easy for 20 - 30% of the population.

[Normlpeople]

"I am afraid I see this is largely unnecessary. While your concern regarding translation is noted, forcing what is an arbitrary language upon all members, and forcing all their staff and governments to learn it. If we are going to take that route, what is wrong with other languages, such as English, which is spoken in a large number of large member nations? Ease of learning is not a valid point for the language, the bottom line is that this takes an issue where none exists and forces extreme inconvenience upon governments for little or no gain.

I will take your advice and vote against, although I have serious doubts this will ever see the voting floor, and rest assured that should it, I will not be learning any other language than the one I speak"

OOC: I am not convinced that it is not a real-world violation.

[Araraukar]

[OOC: Considering how Esperanto isn't a natural language (it was intentionally created, after all), wouldn't mentioning it count as real world violation? Like if, in a proposal talking about cars, you directly referenced Ford or Toyota?

Also, if Esperanto is accepted, then so should Quenya, Klingon and Vulcan.

Esperanto is a language that was created, it has no ties to culture

Bullshit, it was created to fit the Latin language family (Spanish/Italy/English to a lesser degree).

There are many languages; actually, that aren't considered "real" when they have thousands or millions of speakers. I am simply refering to the most popular.

According to Wikipedia: "Between 100,000 and 2,000,000 people worldwide fluently or actively speak Esperanto, including perhaps 1,000 native speakers who learned Esperanto from birth." With 1,000 native speakers I wouldn't call it a major language. Also, "between 100k and 2M" is not a very exact number.

Esperanto has millions of speakers in real life.

Source?]

IC: Jos sillä on huomattava määrä puhujia omassa maassasi, tottakai se ansaitsee virallisen kielen aseman omassa maassasi. En näe muiden valtioiden tuputtavan omia kieliään WA:n viralliseksi kieleksi.

Translation: If this is a significant language in your nation, then by all means give it an official language status in your nation. You don't see others pushing to have their own languages recognized WA-wide.

[OOC: Yeah, Araraukar's own official language is basically Finnish. ]

[Pronunshaa]

Obviously you all are misinterpreting the resolution. It is not saying that anyone must learn Esperanto. At all. I am not trying to force this upon anyone that was a different disscusion that was out of context.

[The Dark Star Republic]

OOC: If Esperanto is a RL reference, then why not NS-ify it? This resolution could create an international auxiliary language and then make appropriate use of it.

[Pronunshaa]

[OOC: Considering how Esperanto isn't a natural language (it was intentionally created, after all), wouldn't mentioning it count as real world violation? Like if, in a proposal talking about cars, you directly referenced Ford or Toyota?

Also, if Esperanto is accepted, then so should Quenya, Klingon and Vulcan.

Esperanto is a language that was created, it has no ties to culture

Bullshit, it was created to fit the Latin language family (Spanish/Italy/English to a lesser degree).

There are many languages; actually, that aren't considered "real" when they have thousands or millions of speakers. I am simply refering to the most popular.

According to Wikipedia: "Between 100,000 and 2,000,000 people worldwide fluently or actively speak Esperanto, including perhaps 1,000 native speakers who learned Esperanto from birth." With 1,000 native speakers I wouldn't call it a major language. Also, "between 100k and 2M" is not a very exact number.

Esperanto has millions of speakers in real life.

Source?]

IC: Jos sillä on huomattava määrä puhujia omassa maassasi, tottakai se ansaitsee virallisen kielen aseman omassa maassasi. En näe muiden valtioiden tuputtavan omia kieliään WA:n viralliseksi kieleksi.

Translation: If this is a significant language in your nation, then by all means give it an official language status in your nation. You don't see others pushing to have their own languages recognized WA-wide.

[OOC: Yeah, Araraukar's own official language is basically Finnish. ]

You using RL statistics mean nothing in an in-game arguement. Recognizing Esperanto is NOT the same thing as klingon or vulcan. Those languages were not created as IALs and do not fit the catagory. You obviously didn't read the resolution.

[Pronunshaa]

"I am afraid I see this is largely unnecessary. While your concern regarding translation is noted, forcing what is an arbitrary language upon all members, and forcing all their staff and governments to learn it. If we are going to take that route, what is wrong with other languages, such as English, which is spoken in a large number of large member nations? Ease of learning is not a valid point for the language, the bottom line is that this takes an issue where none exists and forces extreme inconvenience upon governments for little or no gain.

I will take your advice and vote against, although I have serious doubts this will ever see the voting floor, and rest assured that should it, I will not be learning any other language than the one I speak"

OOC: I am not convinced that it is not a real-world violation.

That is NOT the intention of the resolution that was merely an out of context conversation. I am still in the drafting stage and anything is up for change.

[Pronunshaa]

I would like to remind you all that this is a DRAFT. I am not even close to proposing this yet nor do I intend to for quite some time. After reading what some of you have to say. I would like to shift the focus more on IALs or International Auxiliary Languages rather than esperanto. I will write up a new draft later that does not include esperanto as some of you have espressed your concerns on how this might violate RL rules. Maybe if we can focus on IALs than we can draft up a language that all of WA agrees on and start from scratch. That way the ability to learn can also be easier for native asian speakers.

[Pronunshaa]

OOC: If Esperanto is a RL reference, then why not NS-ify it? This resolution could create an international auxiliary language and then make appropriate use of it.

That is the best idea yet. Thank you. I will write up a new draft later based on IALs.

[Normlpeople]

That is NOT the intention of the resolution that was merely an out of context conversation. I am still in the drafting stage and anything is up for change.

OOC: My mistake, got confused between OOC and IC there. I am still not convinced this is an international issue at all, considering the logistics of it. Since there is rules against a universal WA currency and such, would a WA language not fall under that same banner?

[Bears Armed]

That is NOT the intention of the resolution that was merely an out of context conversation. I am still in the drafting stage and anything is up for change.

OOC: My mistake, got confused between OOC and IC there. I am still not convinced this is an international issue at all, considering the logistics of it. Since there is rules against a universal WA currency and such, would a WA language not fall under that same banner?

OOC: Maybe not. The rule against trying to impose a WA currency is at least partly because as currency is a customisable field the passage of such a resolution would actually require the players to take a specific action in order to keep their nations in compliance, but that factor wouldn't be a problem in the case of languages...

[Pronunshaa]

That is NOT the intention of the resolution that was merely an out of context conversation. I am still in the drafting stage and anything is up for change.

OOC: My mistake, got confused between OOC and IC there. I am still not convinced this is an international issue at all, considering the logistics of it. Since there is rules against a universal WA currency and such, would a WA language not fall under that same banner?

OOC: Well the resolution would not make the IAL replace any language, so I don't think it is against laws.

[Araraukar]

OOC: If Esperanto is a RL reference, then why not NS-ify it? This resolution could create an international auxiliary language and then make appropriate use of it.

That is the best idea yet. Thank you. I will write up a new draft later based on IALs.

OOC: I thought English was already the "international auxiliary language" of WA in the IC reality, since it's required in the OOC reality of the forums.

EDIT: Also, you might want to change the thread title (you can do that by editing the title of the first post) to reflect the fact that your non-Esperanto-specific draft isn't currently up yet.

[Pronunshaa]

That is the best idea yet. Thank you. I will write up a new draft later based on IALs.

OOC: I thought English was already the "international auxiliary language" of WA in the IC reality, since it's required in the OOC reality of the forums.

EDIT: Also, you might want to change the thread title (you can do that by editing the title of the first post) to reflect the fact that your non-Esperanto-specific draft isn't currently up yet.

OOC: I guess it kind of is (but it isn't one as in it wasn't created in the idea of it being one) , but the problem lies that English is a difficult language to learn especially for some native asian language speakers. If we were to create an IAL then it would be aimed at being easier for people who speak languages such as mandarin or japanese. Im not sure how to achieve this yet... Maybe two writing systems and two alphabets? Not sure..

[Bears Armed]

OOC: I guess it kind of is (but it isn't one as in it wasn't created in the idea of it being one) , but the problem lies that English is a difficult language to learn especially for some native asian language speakers. If we were to create an IAL then it would be aimed at being easier for people who speak languages such as mandarin or japanese. Im not sure how to achieve this yet... Maybe two writing systems and two alphabets? Not sure..

OOC; You're apparently assuming that the statistics for language-use IC match RL OOC values fairly closely? It ain't necessarily so.
For example, any 'Auxiliary Language' drawing solely on the most widely-used language groups from RL presumably isn't going to include any Ursine elements...

[Separatist Peoples]

"Absolutely, utterly opposed. The C.D.S.P. will not be bothering to teach anybody an Auxiliary language. The translators in the WAHQ are sufficient for the ambassadors present, and, as non-members aren't affected by WA resolutions, other venues would be limited. That would be why we hire translators. Opposed."

[Pronunshaa]

"Absolutely, utterly opposed. The C.D.S.P. will not be bothering to teach anybody an Auxiliary language. The translators in the WAHQ are sufficient for the ambassadors present, and, as non-members aren't affected by WA resolutions, other venues would be limited. That would be why we hire translators. Opposed."

I obviously have not said this enough. THE FORMATION OF THIS LANGUAGE WOULD NOT BE FOR USE IN THE WA, BUT WITHIN THE COUNTRIES. PLEASE READ ALL OF THE PAST POSTS BEFORE POSTING YOUR OPINION ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IS NOT EVEN BEING PROPOSED.

[Pronunshaa]

OOC: I guess it kind of is (but it isn't one as in it wasn't created in the idea of it being one) , but the problem lies that English is a difficult language to learn especially for some native asian language speakers. If we were to create an IAL then it would be aimed at being easier for people who speak languages such as mandarin or japanese. Im not sure how to achieve this yet... Maybe two writing systems and two alphabets? Not sure..

OOC; You're apparently assuming that the statistics for language-use IC match RL OOC values fairly closely? It ain't necessarily so.
For example, any 'Auxiliary Language' drawing solely on the most widely-used language groups from RL presumably isn't going to include any Ursine elements...

Would there be a way to take a poll?