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[RESUBMITTED] Psychological Freedom Act

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Linux and the X
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[RESUBMITTED] Psychological Freedom Act

Postby Linux and the X » Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:44 pm

(human rights; significant)

RECOGNISING the wide range of individual behaviour and personality,

NOTING that significant variations in behaviour or personality are often classed as psychological conditions, and

BELIEVING that so long as an individual does not cause danger, they should be permitted to remain themselves, even if they do not fall within the norm,

The World Assembly

BANS any involuntary psychological treatment except as provided herein,

CONSIDERS, for purposes of this Act, involuntary treatment as any that is not assented to by the recipient,

MANDATES that only those persons who, due to mental condition, are an immediate physical danger to themselves or others, or are incompetent to the level of inability to perform or request performance of basic physiological needs, may be involuntarily subject to psychological treatment, and only for the mental condition causing such a state,

FORBIDS beliefs, opinions, thoughts, expression, & omne hoc iazensis being considered dangerous,

REQUIRES that any person presented to a psychological treatment facility for involuntary treatment receive a preliminary examination by a qualified mental health professional as immediately as possible, and that staffing levels must be kept adequately high as to ensure that this may be complied with in a manner reasonable from an impartial standpoint,

PERMITS a person whose preliminary examination indicates that they may have a psychological condition that causes immediate physical danger to themself or others to be kept in custody of the facility for the minimum time medically sufficient to determine psychological status,

ALLOWS a person who is determined, by a qualified mental health professional, to be a physical danger to themself or others due to a psychological condition to be involuntarily subject to an appropriate treatment plan developed by one or more qualified mental health professionals, with input from the person being treated, where deemed possible by the mental health professional,

ORDERS that any person not deemed a physical danger to themself or others due to mental condition after the minimum time medically sufficient to do so be immediately permitted to leave the facility without being subject to any involuntary treatment,

DEMANDS that any person presented by the State or one of its subdivisions to a psychological treatment facility for involuntary treatment have any treatment received at that facility, whether voluntary or involuntary, paid for by that State or its subdivision, without recourse to the General Fund, unless doing so would cause undue hardship from an impartial standpoint, and

CLARIFIES that this Act shall not be construed as prohibiting member States from further restricting or entirely banning involuntary psychological treatment within their borders, whether unilaterally, by multilateral treaty, or further legislation by this Assembly, and that "assent" may be provided by an individual who is generally considered incompetent, but only after a fully truthful attempt to inform the individual what they are assenting to, and free of any form of coercion or induced impairment.

(3130 chars)

Related legislation: Institutional Psychiatry Act (res. 140)
Last edited by Linux and the X on Mon May 07, 2012 3:12 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Quelesh
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Postby Quelesh » Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:23 pm

Linux and the X wrote:ALLOWS a person determined a danger to themself or others due to mental condition by a qualified psychiatrist to be involuntarily subject to an appropriate treatment plan developed by a qualified psychiatrist, with input from the person being treated (where the psychiatrist deems possible) having input on the plan, (this clause could definitely do with rewording)


Perhaps this wording would work?

ALLOWS a person who is determined, by a qualified psychiatrist, to be a danger to themself or others due to a mental condition to be involuntarily subject to an appropriate treatment plan developed by a qualified psychiatrist, with, where deemed possible by the psychiatrist, input from the person being treated,


Preventing unjustified involuntary psychiatric commitment is certainly something that I can support.

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Linux and the X
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Postby Linux and the X » Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:33 pm

Quelesh wrote:
Linux and the X wrote:ALLOWS a person determined a danger to themself or others due to mental condition by a qualified psychiatrist to be involuntarily subject to an appropriate treatment plan developed by a qualified psychiatrist, with input from the person being treated (where the psychiatrist deems possible) having input on the plan, (this clause could definitely do with rewording)


Perhaps this wording would work?

ALLOWS a person who is determined, by a qualified psychiatrist, to be a danger to themself or others due to a mental condition to be involuntarily subject to an appropriate treatment plan developed by a qualified psychiatrist, with, where deemed possible by the psychiatrist, input from the person being treated,


Preventing unjustified involuntary psychiatric commitment is certainly something that I can support.

Alexandria Yadoru
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Accepted, with a slight slight change.
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Zaklen
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Postby Zaklen » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:21 pm

Zaklen stands in favor of this resolution.
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Osthia
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Postby Osthia » Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:18 pm

We are in favor.

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The Most Glorious Hack
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Postby The Most Glorious Hack » Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:49 am

...omne hoc iazensis?
Now the stars they are all angled wrong,
And the sun and the moon refuse to burn.
But I remember a message,
In a demon's hand:
"Dread the passage of Jesus, for he does not return."

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Linux and the X
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Postby Linux and the X » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:53 am

The Most Glorious Hack wrote:...omne hoc iazensis?

(Probably bad) Latin for all that jazz. It's in Latin, so it's formal. :P
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Postby Ardchoille » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:55 am

The Most Glorious Hack wrote:...omne hoc iazensis?

...Where the gin is cool and the piano's hot, and ...
omne aalll ...
hoc thaat ...
iazensis JAA-YAZZZ!!!!
*Insert Liza Minnelli clip here*

8)


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Linux and the X
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Postby Linux and the X » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:43 am

While the "Treatment of Religion Act", which prompted us to research current legislation and find that this was needed, has been withdrawn, we note that it was merely a prompt, and that this legislation remains necessary. It is not being withdrawn.
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Postby Moronist Decisions » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:00 am

DEMANDS that any person presented by the State or one of its subdivisions to a psychiatric treatment facility for involuntary treatment have any treatment received at that facility, whether voluntary or involuntary, paid for by that State or its subdivision, without recourse to the General Fund unless that State is in the bottom 10% of GDP, and

CLARIFIES that this Act shall not be construed as prohibiting member States from further restricting or entirely banning involuntary psychiatric treatment within their borders, whether unilaterally, by multilateral treaty, or further legislation by this Assembly.


Would the first clause quoted above be illegal for optionality, and would the second one not be plausible since this opens up the door to amendments?
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Postby Knootoss » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:17 am

Linux and the X wrote:BANS any involuntary psychiatric treatment except as provided herein,


What? Not even a preamble? Or a basic justification about why this resolution should exist and why it is an international issue? Just BAM! all involuntary psychiatry is banned except for this narrow list? Uhh...

Linux and the X wrote:CONSIDERS, for purposes of this Act, involuntary treatment as any that is not assented to by the recipient,


Okay. So performing CPR on someone is banned now because they haven't signed an assent form. Or painting a fence that hasn't consented. (Treating it with paint). Ridiculous definition.

Linux and the X wrote:MANDATES that only those persons who, due to mental condition, are an immediate danger to themselves or others may be involuntarily subject to psychiatric treatment, and only for the mental condition causing such a state,


Why "immediate" danger? Someone could be mentally rigged to explode at any moment and be a danger to their environment. Such a person should surely be treated. Not released just because the danger isn't "immediate".

And why should a state-of-the-art mental health facility (the WA already regulated on this in great, micromanagy detail) not be permitted to treat the whole condition of the patient? Why only treat the single thing that makes them an IMMEDIATE danger to their environment when there is most often comorbidity with other symptoms? Again, this makes no sense.

Linux and the X wrote:FORBIDS beliefs, opinions, thoughts, expression, & omne hoc iazensis being considered dangerous,


The weird latin is cute but I can assure you that when someone is using their own excrement to write out rape fantasies on the wall of their little padded chamber, mental health experts have reason to consider such a person dangerous. There is no reason for international law to step in and override the judgement of these professionals.

Linux and the X wrote:REQUIRES that any person presented to a psychiatric treatment facility for involuntary treatment receive an immediate preliminary examination by a qualified psychiatrist,


IMMEDIATE preliminary examination? What's with the absolutist rhetoric again? What if the patient is completely freaking out as she arrives? What if the patient arrives in the middle of the night? What if the qualified psychiatrist is treating another patient at the time? Drop everything, damn common sense, immediate evaluation as soon as they cross the gate?

Linux and the X wrote:PERMITS a person whose preliminary examination indicates that they may have a mental condition that causes immediate danger to themself or others to be kept in custody of the facility for the minimum time medically sufficient to determine psychiatric status,


Again, absolutist rhetoric. There's "medically sufficient", assuming that for every patient who enters there is a personal psychiatrist on hand who goes through an intensive evaluation process the moment they come through the gate, and there's "practical". This clause would result in patients being released before psychiatric status can even be determined.

Linux and the X wrote:ALLOWS a person who is determined, by a qualified psychiatrist, to be a danger to themself or others due to a mental condition to be involuntarily subject to an appropriate treatment plan developed by a qualified psychiatrist, with input from the person being treated, where deemed possible by the psychiatrist,


And if a qualified psychiatrist isn't immediately available, or for that matter available at all (developing nations!) then these dangerous individuals should be allowed to run free?

Linux and the X wrote:ORDERS that any person not deemed a danger to themself or others due to mental condition after the minimum time medically sufficient to do so be immediately permitted to leave the facility without being subject to any involuntary treatment,


This is again completely absolutist and runs on the fallacy that spending time in a mental health facility will, after a period of time, take away people's mental disorders. This is not true. And there are often gradations between "complete freedom" and "locked up in a padded cell". This clause effectively bans all these "middle roads", such as guided visits to the outside world.

Linux and the X wrote:DEMANDS that any person presented by the State or one of its subdivisions to a psychiatric treatment facility for involuntary treatment have any treatment received at that facility, whether voluntary or involuntary, paid for by that State or its subdivision, without recourse to the General Fund unless that State is in the bottom 10% of GDP, and


This is a negative formulation but it pretty much means that the World Assembly will be made to pay for all mental healthcare in the poorest 10% of states. That's a massive social transfer to weasel into a negatively formulated sub-clause of a resolution that is, ostensibly, about human rights - not social justice.

Linux and the X wrote:CLARIFIES that this Act shall not be construed as prohibiting member States from further restricting or entirely banning involuntary psychiatric treatment within their borders, whether unilaterally, by multilateral treaty, or further legislation by this Assembly.


Yeah, thing is, you can't really write a clause into your resolution saying: "the duplication rule doesn't apply if anyone in the future writes more of what I want". This Act pretty much DOES prevent further legislation by the World Assembly on this very same topic.

If I may part on a general remark, it strikes me that the ambassador from Lunux and the X has had a bad experience in rehab or something and is taking it out on us.

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Postby San Benedict e San Francesco » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:46 am

While we are concerned that this body is involving itself in matters of mental health, given the related but withdrawn "Treatment of Religions", we are pleased with and support the language of this act.

We are equally concerned that Ambassador Aram Koopman has "lost the thread", as it were. Many of his objections share no commonality with the meaning of this act, or with the matter of psychiatric treatment (cf. Painting of fences).

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Postby Southern Patriots » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:55 am

At first I was going to nitpick over the complexity of the issue, but the proposal presented does do a rather decent job presenting a basis for acceptable standards regarding involuntary psychiatric treatment. I cannot see a reason to oppose the idea at this time.
That said I would like to see Dr Koopman's points addressed, as several of them do have some merit.

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Postby Bears Armed » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:28 pm

ALLOWS a person who is determined, by a qualified psychiatrist, to be a danger to themself or others due to a mental condition to be involuntarily subject to an appropriate treatment plan developed by a qualified psychiatrist, with input from the person being treated, where deemed possible by the psychiatrist,

ORDERS that any person not deemed a danger to themself or others due to mental condition after the minimum time medically sufficient to do so be immediately permitted to leave the facility without being subject to any involuntary treatment,


Could we please have the word "physical" added before "danger" in both of these clauses, so that -- for example -- militantly anti-theistic nations would not then legally be able to define the spreading of religious beliefs as a form of danger and thus still imprison believers within psychiatric establishments as certain of them have made it clear they wish to do?
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Linux and the X
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Postby Linux and the X » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:13 pm

Knootoss wrote:
Linux and the X wrote:BANS any involuntary psychiatric treatment except as provided herein,


What? Not even a preamble? Or a basic justification about why this resolution should exist and why it is an international issue? Just BAM! all involuntary psychiatry is banned except for this narrow list? Uhh...

Fair enough. A preamble shall be written.

Linux and the X wrote:CONSIDERS, for purposes of this Act, involuntary treatment as any that is not assented to by the recipient,


Okay. So performing CPR on someone is banned now because they haven't signed an assent form. Or painting a fence that hasn't consented. (Treating it with paint). Ridiculous definition.

Painting a fence is psychiatric treatment now. How interesting.

Linux and the X wrote:MANDATES that only those persons who, due to mental condition, are an immediate danger to themselves or others may be involuntarily subject to psychiatric treatment, and only for the mental condition causing such a state,


Why "immediate" danger? Someone could be mentally rigged to explode at any moment and be a danger to their environment. Such a person should surely be treated. Not released just because the danger isn't "immediate".

The danger, in that case, would still be immediate. It is contextually clear, as I believe you like to say, that the requirement for immediacy prevents involuntary treatment of those whose condition could, maybe, in the wrong conditions, possibly eventually be dangerous or where, if the person says something to the wrong person who takes it the wrong way and does something in the wrong place cause someone else to do something dangerous.

And why should a state-of-the-art mental health facility (the WA already regulated on this in great, micromanagy detail) not be permitted to treat the whole condition of the patient? Why only treat the single thing that makes them an IMMEDIATE danger to their environment when there is most often comorbidity with other symptoms? Again, this makes no sense.

No facility is banned from treating any condition if asked by the individual. They are simply not permitted to treat someone who does not wish to be treated.

Linux and the X wrote:FORBIDS beliefs, opinions, thoughts, expression, & omne hoc iazensis being considered dangerous,


The weird latin is cute but I can assure you that when someone is using their own excrement to write out rape fantasies on the wall of their little padded chamber, mental health experts have reason to consider such a person dangerous. There is no reason for international law to step in and override the judgement of these professionals.

A person who believes that their government is wrong, however, does not (at least inherently) have a dangerous mental condition. Because your situation requires an odd interpretation, I would consider alternative wording, but will not be attempting to reword it myself.

Linux and the X wrote:REQUIRES that any person presented to a psychiatric treatment facility for involuntary treatment receive an immediate preliminary examination by a qualified psychiatrist,


IMMEDIATE preliminary examination? What's with the absolutist rhetoric again? What if the patient is completely freaking out as she arrives? What if the patient arrives in the middle of the night? What if the qualified psychiatrist is treating another patient at the time? Drop everything, damn common sense, immediate evaluation as soon as they cross the gate?

Linux and the X wrote:PERMITS a person whose preliminary examination indicates that they may have a mental condition that causes immediate danger to themself or others to be kept in custody of the facility for the minimum time medically sufficient to determine psychiatric status,


Again, absolutist rhetoric. There's "medically sufficient", assuming that for every patient who enters there is a personal psychiatrist on hand who goes through an intensive evaluation process the moment they come through the gate, and there's "practical". This clause would result in patients being released before psychiatric status can even be determined.

I originally wrote separate responses to each of these, but they all came to the same thing: you are coming up with absurd interpretations to make this Act seem a terrible idea. A reasonable nation would not use such interpretations.

Linux and the X wrote:ALLOWS a person who is determined, by a qualified psychiatrist, to be a danger to themself or others due to a mental condition to be involuntarily subject to an appropriate treatment plan developed by a qualified psychiatrist, with input from the person being treated, where deemed possible by the psychiatrist,


And if a qualified psychiatrist isn't immediately available, or for that matter available at all (developing nations!) then these dangerous individuals should be allowed to run free?

The Institutional Psychiatry Act already requires that member States have psychiatric facilities.

Linux and the X wrote:ORDERS that any person not deemed a danger to themself or others due to mental condition after the minimum time medically sufficient to do so be immediately permitted to leave the facility without being subject to any involuntary treatment,


This is again completely absolutist and runs on the fallacy that spending time in a mental health facility will, after a period of time, take away people's mental disorders. This is not true. And there are often gradations between "complete freedom" and "locked up in a padded cell". This clause effectively bans all these "middle roads", such as guided visits to the outside world.

There is no prohibition on letting a person depart the grounds of the facility without completely leaving on a permanent basis, or from treating them on an outpatient basis. I'm not entirely sure how you're reading that other than, again, trying to make this sound bad.

Linux and the X wrote:DEMANDS that any person presented by the State or one of its subdivisions to a psychiatric treatment facility for involuntary treatment have any treatment received at that facility, whether voluntary or involuntary, paid for by that State or its subdivision, without recourse to the General Fund unless that State is in the bottom 10% of GDP, and


This is a negative formulation but it pretty much means that the World Assembly will be made to pay for all mental healthcare in the poorest 10% of states. That's a massive social transfer to weasel into a negatively formulated sub-clause of a resolution that is, ostensibly, about human rights - not social justice.

I am making a slight grammatical change to that clause. While I suspect you will still dislike it, I hope you will see the purpose of it.

Linux and the X wrote:CLARIFIES that this Act shall not be construed as prohibiting member States from further restricting or entirely banning involuntary psychiatric treatment within their borders, whether unilaterally, by multilateral treaty, or further legislation by this Assembly.


Yeah, thing is, you can't really write a clause into your resolution saying: "the duplication rule doesn't apply if anyone in the future writes more of what I want". This Act pretty much DOES prevent further legislation by the World Assembly on this very same topic.

Yes, I obviously meant to use the illegal interpretation. :roll:

If I may part on a general remark, it strikes me that the ambassador from Lunux and the X has had a bad experience in rehab or something and is taking it out on us.


Thank you for your assessment. Your mockery of my nation's name is quite humourous as well.
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Linux and the X
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Postby Linux and the X » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:16 pm

Bears Armed wrote:
ALLOWS a person who is determined, by a qualified psychiatrist, to be a danger to themself or others due to a mental condition to be involuntarily subject to an appropriate treatment plan developed by a qualified psychiatrist, with input from the person being treated, where deemed possible by the psychiatrist,

ORDERS that any person not deemed a danger to themself or others due to mental condition after the minimum time medically sufficient to do so be immediately permitted to leave the facility without being subject to any involuntary treatment,


Could we please have the word "physical" added before "danger" in both of these clauses, so that -- for example -- militantly anti-theistic nations would not then legally be able to define the spreading of religious beliefs as a form of danger and thus still imprison believers within psychiatric establishments as certain of them have made it clear they wish to do?

Being apparently reasonable, this has been done. If anyone wishes to argue against this, do so.
If you see I've made a mistake in my wording or a factual detail, telegram me and I'll fix it. I'll even give you credit for pointing it out, if you'd like.
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[violet]: Maybe we could power our new search engine from the sexual tension between you two.
Me, responding to a request to vote for a liberation: But... but that would blemish my near-perfect history of spitefully voting against anything the SC does!
Farnhamia: That is not to be taken as license to start calling people "buttmunch."

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Knootoss
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Postby Knootoss » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:30 pm

Feel free to ignore all my suggestions to improve the wording. That will make this proposal easier to campaign against and/or repeal. The basic gist remains, however, that this proposal would approach reasonableness if it got rid of all the morally absolute alarm words: "immediately", "always", "never" which, when taken to their logical conclusion, arrive at ridiculous extremes.

The fact is that this entire proposal breathes out an innate hostility to mental health professionals and does its very best to disempower them by trying to micromanage how they run their institutions for as much as the character limit will allow. A simple ban on psychiatric abuses could do all this without all these useless "procedural" clauses.

Finally, this is not a healthcare/social justice proposal so you have no business hiding (!) a vastly expensive social justice clause in there. That's basically trying to straddle two categories. Bad. Immoral. Possibly illegal. Don't do it. We already have a provision to fund healthcare anyway.
Last edited by Knootoss on Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Puissancevise » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:57 pm

This bill would destroy the psychological treatment programs of almost every nation. I know you are doing this in response to my last proposal, but this bill is not the way to go about countering it. You are going to cause too many problems by not mandating certain types of treatment.
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David Williams
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Postby David Williams » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:41 pm

Linux and the X wrote:
Knootoss wrote:
What? Not even a preamble? Or a basic justification about why this resolution should exist and why it is an international issue? Just BAM! all involuntary psychiatry is banned except for this narrow list? Uhh...

Fair enough. A preamble shall be written.


Okay. So performing CPR on someone is banned now because they haven't signed an assent form. Or painting a fence that hasn't consented. (Treating it with paint). Ridiculous definition.

Painting a fence is psychiatric treatment now. How interesting.


Why "immediate" danger? Someone could be mentally rigged to explode at any moment and be a danger to their environment. Such a person should surely be treated. Not released just because the danger isn't "immediate".

The danger, in that case, would still be immediate. It is contextually clear, as I believe you like to say, that the requirement for immediacy prevents involuntary treatment of those whose condition could, maybe, in the wrong conditions, possibly eventually be dangerous or where, if the person says something to the wrong person who takes it the wrong way and does something in the wrong place cause someone else to do something dangerous.

And why should a state-of-the-art mental health facility (the WA already regulated on this in great, micromanagy detail) not be permitted to treat the whole condition of the patient? Why only treat the single thing that makes them an IMMEDIATE danger to their environment when there is most often comorbidity with other symptoms? Again, this makes no sense.

No facility is banned from treating any condition if asked by the individual. They are simply not permitted to treat someone who does not wish to be treated.


The weird latin is cute but I can assure you that when someone is using their own excrement to write out rape fantasies on the wall of their little padded chamber, mental health experts have reason to consider such a person dangerous. There is no reason for international law to step in and override the judgement of these professionals.

A person who believes that their government is wrong, however, does not (at least inherently) have a dangerous mental condition. Because your situation requires an odd interpretation, I would consider alternative wording, but will not be attempting to reword it myself.


IMMEDIATE preliminary examination? What's with the absolutist rhetoric again? What if the patient is completely freaking out as she arrives? What if the patient arrives in the middle of the night? What if the qualified psychiatrist is treating another patient at the time? Drop everything, damn common sense, immediate evaluation as soon as they cross the gate?



Again, absolutist rhetoric. There's "medically sufficient", assuming that for every patient who enters there is a personal psychiatrist on hand who goes through an intensive evaluation process the moment they come through the gate, and there's "practical". This clause would result in patients being released before psychiatric status can even be determined.

I originally wrote separate responses to each of these, but they all came to the same thing: you are coming up with absurd interpretations to make this Act seem a terrible idea. A reasonable nation would not use such interpretations.


And if a qualified psychiatrist isn't immediately available, or for that matter available at all (developing nations!) then these dangerous individuals should be allowed to run free?

The Institutional Psychiatry Act already requires that member States have psychiatric facilities.


This is again completely absolutist and runs on the fallacy that spending time in a mental health facility will, after a period of time, take away people's mental disorders. This is not true. And there are often gradations between "complete freedom" and "locked up in a padded cell". This clause effectively bans all these "middle roads", such as guided visits to the outside world.

There is no prohibition on letting a person depart the grounds of the facility without completely leaving on a permanent basis, or from treating them on an outpatient basis. I'm not entirely sure how you're reading that other than, again, trying to make this sound bad.


This is a negative formulation but it pretty much means that the World Assembly will be made to pay for all mental healthcare in the poorest 10% of states. That's a massive social transfer to weasel into a negatively formulated sub-clause of a resolution that is, ostensibly, about human rights - not social justice.

I am making a slight grammatical change to that clause. While I suspect you will still dislike it, I hope you will see the purpose of it.



Yeah, thing is, you can't really write a clause into your resolution saying: "the duplication rule doesn't apply if anyone in the future writes more of what I want". This Act pretty much DOES prevent further legislation by the World Assembly on this very same topic.

Yes, I obviously meant to use the illegal interpretation. :roll:

If I may part on a general remark, it strikes me that the ambassador from Lunux and the X has had a bad experience in rehab or something and is taking it out on us.


Thank you for your assessment. Your mockery of my nation's name is quite humourous as well.




Yep, under these terms i find this acceptable :) although i would like it to be more liberalised, the last part of the act gives me the freedom to govern the country as i like. I did not find the "persons who are a physical danger to others or themselves" as being an excuse to lock persons up, So i would prefer that that be reworded that it is only in circumstances where they have a criminal history and have caused physical harm. As well as the "Themselves" part. i would like Mentally ill persons to feel free to harm themselves as much as they like. More suitable would be to have this reworded as that if they are found by a qualified Psychiatrist or Psychologist (Yes, i do not want either one to take over the job) to be a possible danger to others that they can have a tab put on them, such as binding machines to them that if they go out of certain areas get electrocuted. i would have them only until they actually cause harm be made to stay on their property, and at work by electrocution, And that all member states also have to provide a way of them going shopping or visiting friends, either by escort, temporarily changing the machine up if they book to go to certain areas, and as for shopping they can be forced to do it online (under the terms that they only use the net for online shopping, and that they pay all the delivery costs and other costs of going online rather than physically buying it). if they do not cause any physical harm within 2 years of being monitored, they should be considered sane, or if they still beleive that there was some danger or they tried to get outside of their area too much they can be resent to a psychologist or psychiatrist. any person that doesnt cause any harm in the next 2 years cannot be resent until they actually do any harm. once any person has done any harm and is considered mentally ill, it is up to the state what to do with them although they must at least be given the non mental criminal charge for the physical harm.

I will aprove of the last part allowing countries to further liberalise this law ;)
Thanks, under either terms i will definitely Approve :)
Economic 4.88, social -1.38, Right leaning Libertarian.
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No marriage should be recognized by the state, they need to keep out of other people's personal relationships.
None except in large threats to mother's life or rape.
Legalize weed and then tax the shit out of it.


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David Williams
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Postby David Williams » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:46 pm

Whoops, by the online shopping part i meant that under the circumstances that they only use the net for online shopping, the state should pay for all internet costs, and that it is the states responsibility to either ship the items from these shops themselves after the request is given or pay the delivery costs that the shops will do.
Economic 4.88, social -1.38, Right leaning Libertarian.
Social
Views
No marriage should be recognized by the state, they need to keep out of other people's personal relationships.
None except in large threats to mother's life or rape.
Legalize weed and then tax the shit out of it.


Economic
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(Under construction).

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Libraria and Ausitoria
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Postby Libraria and Ausitoria » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:30 am

Knootoss wrote:Feel free to ignore all my suggestions to improve the wording. That will make this proposal easier to campaign against and/or repeal. The basic gist remains, however, that this proposal would approach reasonableness if it got rid of all the morally absolute alarm words: "immediately", "always", "never" which, when taken to their logical conclusion, arrive at ridiculous extremes.

What ridiculous extremes?

The fact is that this entire proposal breathes out an innate hostility to mental health professionals and does its very best to disempower them by trying to micromanage how they run their institutions for as much as the character limit will allow. A simple ban on psychiatric abuses could do all this without all these useless "procedural" clauses.

How? Can we have an example, please?

Finally, this is not a healthcare/social justice proposal so you have no business hiding (!) a vastly expensive social justice clause in there. That's basically trying to straddle two categories. Bad. Immoral. Possibly illegal. Don't do it. We already have a provision to fund healthcare anyway.

If another nation becomes a hotbed of lunatics, like Knootoss for instance, surely they might present a danger to the rest of the world?

Anyway, in the absence of valid validations of the above complaints, we are very much in favour of this proposal.
Last edited by Libraria and Ausitoria on Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Linux and the X
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Postby Linux and the X » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:33 am

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Democratic Consensia
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Postby Democratic Consensia » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:30 pm

Linux and the X wrote:(human rights; significant)

The World Assembly

BANS any involuntary psychiatric treatment except as provided herein,

CONSIDERS, for purposes of this Act, involuntary treatment as any that is not assented to by the recipient,

MANDATES that only those persons who, due to mental condition, are an immediate physical danger to themselves or others may be involuntarily subject to psychiatric treatment, and only for the mental condition causing such a state,

FORBIDS beliefs, opinions, thoughts, expression, & omne hoc iazensis being considered dangerous1,

REQUIRES that any person presented to a psychiatric treatment facility for involuntary treatment receive an immediate2 preliminary examination by a qualified psychiatrist,

PERMITS a person whose preliminary examination indicates that they may have a mental condition that causes immediate physical danger to themself or others to be kept in custody of the facility for the minimum time medically sufficient to determine psychiatric status,

ALLOWS a person who is determined, by a qualified psychiatrist, to be a physical danger to themself or others due to a mental condition to be involuntarily subject to an appropriate treatment plan developed by a qualified psychiatrist, with input from the person being treated, where deemed possible by the psychiatrist,

ORDERS that any person not deemed a physical danger to themself or others due to mental condition after the minimum time medically sufficient to do so be immediately permitted to leave the facility without being subject to any involuntary treatment,

DEMANDS that any person presented by the State or one of its subdivisions to a psychiatric treatment facility for involuntary treatment have any treatment received at that facility, whether voluntary or involuntary, paid for by that State or its subdivision, without recourse to the General Fund, unless that State is in the bottom 10% of GDP, and

CLARIFIES that this Act shall not be construed as prohibiting member States from further restricting or entirely banning involuntary psychiatric treatment within their borders, whether unilaterally, by multilateral treaty, or further legislation by this Assembly.

(2156 chars)

Related legislation: Institutional Psychiatry Act (res. 140)


While we laud the purpose of this bill, in light of recent attempts to define religious belief as a psychiatric problem and require treatment for the aforesaid by all nations with membership in this body, I personally have some notes on the legislation, for your perusal.

With respect to point (1), there is a concern that this language may allow states to determine what is and is not dangerous. If we allow ourselves to get into the business of classifying thoughts and feelings as dangerous, we ourselves walk down a dangerous road. I propose the creation of an international panel of psychiatric and psychological professionals to make such determinations, vis this act. Also, it may be best to replace "et omne hoc iazensis" with the more-formal et cetera, meaning "and so forth". We are certain that this is not the intent of the passage, but it can be read in that way.

With respect to point (2), and has been previously stated, it may be best to replace "immediate" with 'timely'.

Yours,
Joachim Pfifer: General Assembly Delegate for the Serene Republic of Democratic Consensia
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Sionis Prioratus
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Founded: Feb 07, 2009
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Postby Sionis Prioratus » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:32 pm

Linux and the X wrote:MANDATES that only those persons who, due to mental condition, are an immediate physical danger to themselves or others may be involuntarily subject to psychiatric treatment, and only for the mental condition causing such a state,


This will effectively end the World Assembly.

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Unibot II
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Founded: Jan 10, 2011
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Postby Unibot II » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:52 pm

Linux and the X wrote:
MANDATES that only those persons who, due to mental condition, are an immediate physical danger to themselves or others may be involuntarily subject to psychiatric treatment, and only for the mental condition causing such a state,

FORBIDS beliefs, opinions, thoughts, expression, & omne hoc iazensis being considered dangerous,[/url]


Well let's say I have the belief that if I don't light the WA's library on fire before Thursday, aliens will kill us all and eat pie. That's a pretty good reason to put me in a psychiatric institution and that's just a belief.
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