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The Inherent Democratic Deficits of the World Assembly

Where WA members debate how to improve the world, one resolution at a time.
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Glen-Rhodes
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The Inherent Democratic Deficits of the World Assembly

Postby Glen-Rhodes » Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:14 pm

This essay also available in PDF form: http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/77372938?access_key=key-xotv8oi36wklub93jl7


The Inherent Democratic Deficits of the World Assembly:
Why You Shouldn’t Penalize Authors for Writing Nondemocratic Policy


It is a common refrain among non-experienced players that citizens of their states should not be under the iron fists of unelected bureaucrats. This is entirely understandable, of course. The notion that international economic policy, for example, should be set by a World Assembly bureaucracy that is not beholden to any member state or subject to oversight, except by other unelected bureaucrats, is a notion that not many people agree with. In a normal situation, democratic deficits such as that should not exist. International policy-makers should indeed be beholden to the people, corporations, and states that their policies affect for the better and for the worse.

But the World Assembly is not normal. I won’t address here my outsider views on the nonsense that is game mechanics, though. Let’s just accept that there are certain limitations placed upon the World Assembly by the technical limitations of the NationStates game architecture. There are two main things I want to talk about though: proposal character limits and the inability of member states to sit on committees. Both of these limitations cause the World Assembly to have inherent democratic deficits that force authors to write proposals in ways that they wouldn’t otherwise write them.

The Proposal Character Limit Requires Vague Policy

Any author that has attempted to deal with even slightly complex policy proposals has run into this problem. There is an arbitrary 3,500 character limit for World Assembly proposals. While this limit can be raised or completely removed with very little negative impact on the game’s back-end, we’ll just accept here and now that the limit will not change anytime soon.

What this means is that authors simply cannot write proposals as lengthy and detailed as real-world law. While we can write broad policy objectives, it is actually impossible to write anything in detail. For example, take a proposal that is meant to regulate the trade of precious stones and gems, to ensure they are collected or manufactured in safe ways that respect human rights law. (In other words, it institutes a regulatory scheme to avoid the sale of “blood diamonds” and other “blood” stones.)

This issue is fairly complex, but the proposal itself is simple and only implements broad policies, which takes nearly all of the allowed characters. (The Gem Trading Accord does this, as well, and is very close the limit.) It establishes World Assembly bureaucracies, who are given certain guidelines and then are tasked to write detailed rules themselves. This is, of course, a democratic deficit, as these officials are in effect non-elected legislators.

But there is really no other way to write the proposal. In the real world, the Kimberley Process is a 16 page document. (source) It, much like the proposal, establishes broad principles and tasks signatories with establishing more detailed law. The Clean Diamond Trade Act, the United States law implementing the Kimberley Process, is a 7 page document, itself delegating the writing of specific rules to various committees. (source, pdf)

So, it takes 23 pages to implement gem trading laws, and who knows how many pages to write the actual, specific rules. Recall that authors are only allowed 3,500 characters to write their resolutions. That should show that the character limit forces authors to write vague, non-specific law. Unfortunately, few realize this and vote against these proposals exactly because they aren’t detailed enough. (By the way, this essay just went over 3,500 characters with those last few sentences.)

If Member States Cannot Sit on Committees, Who Writes The Rules?

Now that we know why authors are forced to write vague policies that delegate specifics to World Assembly bureaucracy, we are faced with a new problem: member states cannot sit on committees themselves. So, not only are member states not given the full details of international law, they are not even allowed to take part in writing the details they’re not given in the first place. This is a huge democratic deficit that not many people enjoy, and rightfully so. But there is nothing that authors can do about it.

Like the character limit forces authors to write vague policy, the inability of member states to sit on committees forces authors to leave all the details to either (a) member states themselves or (b) unelected bureaucrats. While it is sometimes preferable to leave the details to member states, it is not always wise. This is especially true when a proposal is attempting to prohibit certain actions that benefit various member states. If left to make the details themselves, those member states cannot be trusted to act in good faith and write details to the spirit of the guidelines. If member states benefiting from blood diamonds wrote the rules for gem certification, then they would most definitely ensure that blood diamonds would be certified.

This also brings up a second reason why leaving it to member states is often a poor idea: most international law seeks to standardize policies. Leaving details to member states invites a checkerboard-like policy, where the detailed rules of one state are different in another, negating the entire purpose of passing the international law in the first place.

This leads to only one answer. Authors are oftentimes left with no choice but to assign World Assembly bureaucracies with writing the details. Somebody needs to provide details, since proposals are required to be vague. And you don’t want to assign that duty to somebody who has interest in bending them to their gain.

Conclusion

The entire purpose of this essay is to educate non-experienced players about why many proposals offer little detail and leave things to committees. I cannot count how many times I have seen players profess their distaste for a proposal because it’s vague and has a committee. While it is completely understandable that they don’t want vague law and don’t think unelected bureaucrats should wield all the power, the game simply does not lend itself well to democratic principles. If I could change this, I would waste no time doing so. But I can’t. So the least I would like to do is to try and get others to not penalize authors who are forced to write their proposals this way. It’s not their choice; they’re limited by the rules of the game.

----------------------

Correction: A previous version of this essay misrepresented what the Gem Trading According was about. The current version was changed to use a generic 'conflict diamonds' proposal, instead.
Last edited by Glen-Rhodes on Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Southern Patriots
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Postby Southern Patriots » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:02 pm

Very good observations.

I, for one, welcome these democratic shortfalls. Democracy is chaos, and democracy guided by the member-states of the World Assembly would be chaos legion.

One of the real deficits to the resolution experience is member-states rage quit when a vote doesn't go their way.

Remember Rhodesia.

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I do hope it wasn't in economics.

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Postby Connopolis » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:49 pm

OOC: Very well written, and I whole heartedly agree with every piece of it. Although I was just curious about the character limit: is it actually arbitrary, or does it have a purpose? I can hardly envision the admins utilizing it for no apparent reason... Because if that's the case, I can't imagine anyone objecting to extending it.
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Glen-Rhodes
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Postby Glen-Rhodes » Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:18 pm

Connopolis wrote:OOC: Very well written, and I whole heartedly agree with every piece of it. Although I was just curious about the character limit: is it actually arbitrary, or does it have a purpose? I can hardly envision the admins utilizing it for no apparent reason... Because if that's the case, I can't imagine anyone objecting to extending it.

There is no technical reason to a character limit. Whether NationStates uses flat text files or a database to store resolutions, a 3,500 character limit is entirely arbitrary. The text of Rome Statute, which created the real-world International Court of Justice, is only 188 KB. In other words, negligible. The average serious post in the General Assembly forum alone is longer than the average resolution.

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Belschaft
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Postby Belschaft » Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:54 pm

Glen-Rhodes wrote:
Connopolis wrote:OOC: Very well written, and I whole heartedly agree with every piece of it. Although I was just curious about the character limit: is it actually arbitrary, or does it have a purpose? I can hardly envision the admins utilizing it for no apparent reason... Because if that's the case, I can't imagine anyone objecting to extending it.

There is no technical reason to a character limit. Whether NationStates uses flat text files or a database to store resolutions, a 3,500 character limit is entirely arbitrary. The text of Rome Statute, which created the real-world International Court of Justice, is only 188 KB. In other words, negligible. The average serious post in the General Assembly forum alone is longer than the average resolution.

I'd be inclined to speculate that the word limit may be in place to keep WA resolutions short enough that they can be easily understood by all players, and prevent them becoming excessively detailed and long, setting out the legislative minute involved. That way the WA is prevented from becoming even more of an insiders club at the exclusion of new players.
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Southern Patriots
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Postby Southern Patriots » Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:16 pm

Belschaft wrote:
Glen-Rhodes wrote:There is no technical reason to a character limit. Whether NationStates uses flat text files or a database to store resolutions, a 3,500 character limit is entirely arbitrary. The text of Rome Statute, which created the real-world International Court of Justice, is only 188 KB. In other words, negligible. The average serious post in the General Assembly forum alone is longer than the average resolution.

I'd be inclined to speculate that the word limit may be in place to keep WA resolutions short enough that they can be easily understood by all players, and prevent them becoming excessively detailed and long, setting out the legislative minute involved. That way the WA is prevented from becoming even more of an insiders club at the exclusion of new players.

Good point, most NS players are rather young (if the multiple polls held in the past are an accurate indication).

Remember Rhodesia.

On Robert Mugabe:
Nightkill the Emperor wrote:He was a former schoolteacher.

I do hope it wasn't in economics.

Panzerjaeger wrote:Why would Cleopatra have cornrows? She is from Egypt not the goddamn Bronx.

Ceannairceach wrote:
Archnar wrote:The Russian Revolution showed a revolution could occure in a quick bloadless and painless process (Nobody was seriously injured or killed).

I doth protest in the name of the Russian Imperial family!
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Glen-Rhodes
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Postby Glen-Rhodes » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:04 pm

Belschaft wrote:I'd be inclined to speculate that the word limit may be in place to keep WA resolutions short enough that they can be easily understood by all players, and prevent them becoming excessively detailed and long, setting out the legislative minute involved. That way the WA is prevented from becoming even more of an insiders club at the exclusion of new players.

That may be true, but I was talking about technical reasons. We can debate the merits of forcing the World Assembly player-base to accommodate the lowest common denominator if you'd like, but I only meant to highlight that the limit itself is arbitrary. Even with the other non-technical purposes, 3,500 characters is still arbitrarily low and is the root cause of required vagueness, which I don't think a lot of people realize.

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Sionis Prioratus
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Postby Sionis Prioratus » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:01 pm

Glen-Rhodes wrote:I don't think a lot of people realize [the root cause of required vagueness].


I guess this is OOC, alright?

I do. Always did, since my first GA (then WA) eon. I always thought that the arbitrary 3500 limit was made to intentionally force the dumbing down of the texts, no sugarcoating. Which I always thought was rather offensive. Just because some people are young, and may dislike legalese, does that automatically mean that they're retarded? I beg to differ. And even if some were, is that enough pretext for the game to treat everybody as if everybody was retarded? I beg to differ once again. So there we have it, causes and consequences: Forcefully dumbed-down texts made for retarded-friendly purposes, lead to dumb and retarded debates, with dumb and retarded arguments on both sides of every issue, creating a far less enjoyable gaming experience than it could have been.

GR, I seem to recall a Mod (for the life of me I cannot remember which one) giving the very example of the Rome Statute as for justification for the 3500 limit. Everybody would write please-shoot-me-that's-too-long "Rome Statuses", or something to that effect. That argument as justification fails on several premises:

1) Long texts are intrinsecally bad - why?
2) Most players wouldn't comprehend long texts - That is an insult to every player's intelligence, as I defended above.
3) Most people do only read the title / are lemmings - if that is so, the text can have 350, 3500, 35000, 350000 chars... Will continue to happen anyway. It makes no difference at all.

As for alienating other players: Well, NS is one of the most multifaceted games out there. In practice, there are many NSes, not just one. Speaking only for myself, I feel alienated from every single not-GA aspect of NS. And I do not complain. If I wanted, I could study the inner workings of the other realms and try to play along. But it simply does not bother me, as of now. If the General Assembly/WA is in such a sorry state that we must fear mass alienation and stampeding because of scary extra characters!!!!! maybe it would be the time to close the World Assembly shop, as the investment would not be yielding returns. But last I checked, the average sum of any given vote floated around ten thousand votes. Whoa. And in the pre-neat graphics era, it was around three and five thousand, which is still pretty decent.

tl;dr: We should respect players' intelligences. That means allowing them to be dumb sometimes. More char space.
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Syrkania
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Postby Syrkania » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:21 pm

OOC: Played the game during the pre-GA period. Heck, during the pre-repeal period. Back then, you'd have been laughed down for suggesting that a committee was required to do anything. Nations were expected to abide by the resolutions, and that was that. No need for extra bureaucracy to enforce anything, because joining the NSUN meant that you abided by the resolutions.
And you know what? It worked.

The way the game works has changed considerably since then (primarily for the better - the pre-Jolt forums mainly functioned on hope), but I can't say I particularly like this particular change in the game.
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Glen-Rhodes
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Postby Glen-Rhodes » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:05 am

Syrkania wrote:And you know what? It worked.

Different time, different players, different traditions, and different theories. Even nearer to the end of the UN, though, committees were common and used exactly for the reasons I argue in my essay. Yeah, you can write a lot of resolutions without committees -- things like human rights, for example. To use the Gem Trading Accord, you can also try to say, "All gems must be certified real." Maybe that would have been enough in the UN days, but it's not now. Unless the policy proposal is inherently straight-forward and needs little detail to fully implement, you will be opening yourself up to loopholes and interpretations. There is simply no way to write about a complex issue without being vague and using a committee.

Syrkania wrote:.. But I can't say I particularly like this particular change in the game.

Many more things have changed, including the quality of both proposals and ideas for proposals. Sorry to say, but I'm not very sympathetic to a lot of old player's nostalgia about the old ways. I've been spending the better part of two years changing them.

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New Buckner
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Postby New Buckner » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:01 am

I have found myself falling prey to the "to vague why another committee" immediate view upon a proposal sometimes.

The good/bad items that would stem from an increased character count - the complexities of the bills would be open for truly vast and complicated measures. Time extension to the process would need to be implemented to ensure each bill received the proper attention. While this will limit the number of bills up for debate and vote, it would also allow for some comprehensive overhaul of current legislation.

The ability to create a larger bill would allow the combination of multiple current resolutions that skirt closely around each other and also help in removing some of these committees that serve no purpose other than to fill the gap of vague language.

Now one possible solution that could be implemented, utilizing your "gem" example. You could state IN the proposal that the "All gems must be certified real" and then as a "rider" post below that of the proposal, you go into extended detail as to what "certified real" is defined as. Think of these as "riders" to a bill. It would almost act as a kind of work around to the current limitations. It would allow for the extra detail and definitions, and if done right, I could easily see how it could satisfy both the "give me more detail" and the "simple is better" crowds by allowing everyone to have a little piece of the action.
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Postby Bears Armed » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:43 am

Sionis Prioratus wrote:I seem to recall a Mod (for the life of me I cannot remember which one) giving the very example of the Rome Statute as for justification for the 3500 limit. Everybody would write please-shoot-me-that's-too-long "Rome Statuses", or something to that effect. That argument as justification fails on several premises:

1) Long texts are intrinsecally bad - why?

Because the Mods would have to spend longer checking for illegalities?
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Postby Urgench » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:52 am

Glen-Rhodes wrote:This issue is fairly complex, but the proposal itself is simple and only implements broad policies, which takes nearly all of the allowed characters. (The Gem Trading Accord does this, as well, and is very close the limit.) It establishes World Assembly bureaucracies, who are given certain guidelines and then are tasked to write detailed rules themselves. This is, of course, a democratic deficit, as these officials are in effect non-elected legislators.


Correction: A previous version of this essay misrepresented what the Gem Trading According was about. The current version was changed to use a generic 'conflict diamonds' proposal, instead.




OOC- Well now, while I appreciate your clarification here at the end and I may agree with certain aspects of the your thesis generally, I have to point out that the Gem Trading Accord is not your best choice as an example of what you are talking about.

Firstly the bureaucracy it creates is probably one of the tiniest (and probably one of the least autonomous or dictatorial) created by any WA resolution which includes a committee. Secondly it explicitly devolves responsibility for its enforcement onto member states. Thirdly in drawing up the rules and standards by which it will operate it is explicitly enjoined to work in cooperation with producers, traders and governments and to assist member states only where needed.


There are a number of resolutions which fit your essay's description but the Gem Trading Accord is not one of them.


However I agree with you that a resolution regulating ethical diamond trade and the like would probably be beyond the ability of even the most ingenious writer given the character limit.


Edit: And seriously the GTA was your best example when this monstrosity of anti-democracy sits on the books like a giant dictatorial carbuncle? - viewtopic.php?p=4026013#p4026013
Last edited by Urgench on Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:33 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby Snefaldia » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:53 am

With the roleplaying excesses of the early days (Pretenema Panel, anyone?) in mind, I have never liked the "magical committee" rule and have always believed it should be permissible to have member-states sit on committees instead of the gnomes.

This does not mean I think that roleplaying of committees should be acceptable outside of II or binding in anyway; rather proposals should solely be allowed to state that "membership of the committee/bureaucracy/staff/administration shall be drawn from qualified memberstates." or some other such weasel word.

In response to proposal length: I don't want to read a three-page legal document on fishing quotas in the queue, and I bet that almost no one else wants to either. Proposal length, accusations of vague antidemocratic sentiment aside, has more to do with not making reader's eyes go cross halfway through and then move on to the next without finishing whatever brilliant piece of international legislation they were originally reading. Imagine a queue full of three, four, or five page customs harmonisation agreements! Madness!
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Sionis Prioratus
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Postby Sionis Prioratus » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:03 am

Bears Armed wrote:
Sionis Prioratus wrote:I seem to recall a Mod (for the life of me I cannot remember which one) giving the very example of the Rome Statute as for justification for the 3500 limit. Everybody would write please-shoot-me-that's-too-long "Rome Statuses", or something to that effect. That argument as justification fails on several premises:

1) Long texts are intrinsically bad - why?

Because the Mods would have to spend longer checking for illegalities?


I hope that's just a thought experiment, for if true, it offends Mods' intelligence as well. I mean, NS is fucking HUGE. I'm sure that the hive mind is quite able to read (and act on) quite large volumes of text. Second, length is not equal to complexity. On the contrary. And may I elaborate further on this point:

The very existence of committees is an evolutionary aberration, made necessary by the unconscionable and arbitrary 3500 limit. The vagueness so rightfully alluded to in this thread is the direct consequence of it. Come on, what is the average resolution nowadays? An absurd soup of Unaussprechlichen acronyms, definitions and their cross-references, and esoteric committees bordering on lunacy. Committees do only exist because we cannot be specific enough on any given resolution, so we concoct our generalizable ideas in the most general and vague possible principles, and BAM an esoteric committee!, staffed by mystical, inerrant "gnomes". So the idea can "fit"!! For a section of a game that is meant to emulate the United Nations a World Parliament, that's quite an idiotic principle.

Mods' jobs, imho, would be made easier by a longer character limit. There would be far less (if at all) deliberations about vague, too-general portions of text. We could spell it all out we actually want and intend, very, very clearly.

And in the unlikely circumstance that the Hive Mind would undergo mass apoptosis in the event of say, OMG 7000 chars!!!! the Hive Mind would be wise enough to pick wise condemned souls to become GA Mods. (not me, thank you)

Quite frankly, maybe we would not need any more new committees at all, with a bigger char limit. I quite like the concept.

Edit: typos, minor clarifications
Last edited by Sionis Prioratus on Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Yelda » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:41 am

Snefaldia wrote:proposals should solely be allowed to state that "membership of the committee/bureaucracy/staff/administration shall be drawn from qualified memberstates." or some other such weasel word.


I would support something like that. I've always assumed that the "gnomes" that staff our committees are people, and it would make sense if those people were from WA member states. I don't see anything wrong with a resolution saying that so long as it isn't specific about "which" people or "which" member state.

Snefaldia wrote:In response to proposal length: I don't want to read a three-page legal document on fishing quotas in the queue, and I bet that almost no one else wants to either. Proposal length, accusations of vague antidemocratic sentiment aside, has more to do with not making reader's eyes go cross halfway through and then move on to the next without finishing whatever brilliant piece of international legislation they were originally reading. Imagine a queue full of three, four, or five page customs harmonisation agreements! Madness!


I could support an increase in the character limit so long as it wasn't too outlandish. I mean, what should it be increased to? 5000 characters? 10000? 20000? To infinity and beyond? I don't want to read multi-page documents either. This is a game after all, not an actual government bureaucracy. A reasonable increase wouldn't bother me but I don't want authors actually trying to replicate the Treaty of Rome. Maybe increase it to 7000 characters, assuming there aren't technical reasons for not raising it that we don't know about.
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Glen-Rhodes
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Postby Glen-Rhodes » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:12 pm

Bears Armed wrote:Because the Mods would have to spend longer checking for illegalities?

I thought about that, too. But mods don't read over every proposal anyways. The vast majority of legalities are pointed out by players during the drafting stage.

My personal view about the idea that long proposals would be too cumbersome is that, if that is true, then long proposals would not be popular. They wouldn't be successful, so people would not write short story-length proposals. If mods like to point out the Rome Statute, then I would like to point out that at least a third of it would never make it into a proposal. A lot of it has to do with the composition of the court and jurisdiction, and the nature of ICJ jurisdiction is incompatible with the rules.

But, really, I'm not saying we should all write long proposals. I didn't write this to advocate a rule change, though I certainly wouldn't oppose doubling or tripling the limit. I'm personally a fan of committees and leaving things to them, because that's how it's done in the real world, and it's done that way for a reason. I don't think a fetish for detail is something players really need or should want. They just should realize that a lot of the time vagueness and committees are necessary.

Urgench wrote:Edit: And seriously the GTA was your best example when this monstrosity of anti-democracy sits on the books like a giant dictatorial carbuncle? - viewtopic.php?p=4026013#p4026013

The GTA was the first thing that popped out at me, since I already knew of the Kimbereley Process. Obviously I should have re-read the resolution, though. Ethics in International Trade is a good example, but I'm not aware of any single real-world international law that does that kind of thing. I wanted to illustrate a point about length and how even relatively long (compared to the WA) inter/national law delegates specifics to committees, commissions, agencies, etc.

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Sionis Prioratus
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Postby Sionis Prioratus » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:20 pm

Glen-Rhodes wrote:I don't think a fetish for detail is something players really need


Is sexualizing opponents' views actually necessary? Why? I don't want to repeat your words, but the same thing could be said about you and committees.
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Postby Glen-Rhodes » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:30 pm

Sionis Prioratus wrote:
Glen-Rhodes wrote:I don't think a fetish for detail is something players really need


Is sexualizing opponents' views actually necessary? Why? I don't want to repeat your words, but the same thing could be said about you and committees.

It's a commonly used word for placing an absurd amount of importance on something... I don't know what the big deal is, but I don't feel like getting sidetracked into a debate on grammar.

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Sionis Prioratus
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Postby Sionis Prioratus » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:53 pm

Glen-Rhodes wrote:
Sionis Prioratus wrote:
Is sexualizing opponents' views actually necessary? Why? I don't want to repeat your words, but the same thing could be said about you and committees.

It's a commonly used word for placing an absurd amount of importance on something... I don't know what the big deal is, but I don't feel like getting sidetracked into a debate on grammar.


You're a "fan" of committees. Others have "fetish[es]". Okay, it's my bad grammar.
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Founded: Jun 25, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Glen-Rhodes » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:14 pm

Sionis Prioratus wrote:
Glen-Rhodes wrote:It's a commonly used word for placing an absurd amount of importance on something... I don't know what the big deal is, but I don't feel like getting sidetracked into a debate on grammar.


You're a "fan" of committees. Others have "fetish[es]". Okay, it's my bad grammar.

Okay, let's just squash this right now. I used 'fetish' because I was talking about the possibility of extremely long, detail-ridden proposals.

User avatar
Belschaft
Minister
 
Posts: 2409
Founded: Mar 19, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Belschaft » Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:35 pm

Snefaldia wrote:...In response to proposal length: I don't want to read a three-page legal document on fishing quotas in the queue, and I bet that almost no one else wants to either...

No one seems to want to read a document on fishing quotas de-facto, based upon my previous attempts to get one passed :(
You will never be happy if you continue to search for what happiness consists of.
You will never live if you are looking for the meaning of life.

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The Most Glorious Hack
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 2427
Founded: Mar 11, 2003
Anarchy

Postby The Most Glorious Hack » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:17 am

The US Constitution contains 4440 words. The Alabama state constitution is 340136 words. Longer isn't always better.
Now the stars they are all angled wrong,
And the sun and the moon refuse to burn.
But I remember a message,
In a demon's hand:
"Dread the passage of Jesus, for he does not return."

-Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, "Time Jesum Transeuntum Et Non Riverentum"



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Mahaj
Senator
 
Posts: 4110
Founded: Dec 08, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Mahaj » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:26 am

The Most Glorious Hack wrote:The US Constitution contains 4440 words. The Alabama state constitution is 340136 words. Longer isn't always better.

And sometimes it is. So the ones needing longer space could use it, and those that don't, wouldn't.

why is it that forum posts can use over 17 times as many characters as resolutions? I'm not asking for 60000 characters, but it doesn't make sense to keep the limit so low.
Aal Izz Well: UDL
<Koth> I'm still going by the assumption that Mahaj is Unibot's kid brother or something
Kandarin(Naivetry): You're going to have a great NS career ahead of you if you want it, Mahaj. :)
<@Eluvatar> Why is SkyDip such a purist raiderist
<+frattastan> Because his region was never raided.
<+maxbarry> EarthAway: I guess I might dabble in raiding just to experience it better, but I would not like to raid regions of natives, so I'd probably be more interested in defense and liberations

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Snefaldia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 782
Founded: Dec 05, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Snefaldia » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:57 am

Mahaj wrote:
The Most Glorious Hack wrote:The US Constitution contains 4440 words. The Alabama state constitution is 340136 words. Longer isn't always better.

And sometimes it is. So the ones needing longer space could use it, and those that don't, wouldn't.

why is it that forum posts can use over 17 times as many characters as resolutions? I'm not asking for 60000 characters, but it doesn't make sense to keep the limit so low.


Apples and oranges! Forum posts serve a different function than World Assembly legislation, and there are salient reasons why we shouldn't have immensely long resolutions. Anyone who has a regional treaty, or constitution, or other RPed arrangement probably knows why- they tend to be long an unreadable, or people just skim over them, and new players just ignore them or feel daunted by the mass of text.

Do you honestly want to sit on NS with your morning cup of coffee, scrolling through the queue and reading resolutions the length of the Kyoto Protocol? The WA forum would turn into a sad mixture of hyper-legalistic players with the patience to sit through even the most tame of drafting threads. Imagine drafting- my god! The quote boxes would be unimaginable, and legality rulings would be a nightmare, not to mention spellchecking and all the vitriol that comes with missing a period in this place.

OP's concerns about democratic representation can be addressed with a simple change to the rules: nations do sit on committees, but do not roleplay or otherwise impact in a game-mechanics way the conduct of those committees' duties. Simple as that.
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