BoF 37: Delaclava and Burchadinger Bid Thread

[Burchadinger]

BAPTISM OF FIRE 37 CO-HOST BID

"Forward, Upward, Onward Together"

Both Delaclava and Burchadinger enjoy a long history of football, both countries have many fans of the sport, and both countries strive to make the game available to nations around the world. Our aim in bidding for the Baptism of Fire, is to give the nations that are to be in it the best place to prepare for the following World Cup and beyond.

Experience:

Delaclava is not new to hosting, and other than then hosting the current Baptism of Iron (American Football), the country has also hosted the Scott Cup (Tennis) twice. Other than that, Delaclava has hosted one Phoenix Cup (Football/Soccer).

Although Burchadinger have not hosted a WCC Sanctioned Event before, the country has had plenty of experience hosting regional tournaments and has many existing stadiums that will be suitable for hosting the BoF.

While it can be agreed that both Delaclava and Burchadinger have no experience in hosting WCC events, the fact that the nations have already hosted many other events, means that the bid should not be underestimated.

Tournament Format:

The format will be based upon the number of participants, but it will include a round robin group play, followed by a single elimination bracket.

Scorination:

Delaclava will be scorinating at 2030-2130 UTC, while Burchadinger will scorinate around an hour later at 2200-2230 UTC. The RP bonus is a system which slowly degrades day by day and rates each RP to create an average score. This rewards RPers who continuously RP and emphasizes quality, rather than quantity.

Questions:

If all of the above does not answer any of your questions, then feel free to post a question. Either me or Delaclava will answer it as soon as possible.

Written jointly by Burchadinger and Delaclava

[The Babbage Islands]

The Football Federation of Babbage salute the initiative shown by this bid, and wish you all success in your endeavour.

[Newmanistan]

I would have preferred to see each of you team up with a WCC-experienced co-host instead of teaming up with each other. Secondly, if you were to team, I would have rather seen it for a Cup of Harmony bid then a Baptism of Fire bid. The BoF is about breaking in newbies, not newbie-hosts.

This is constructive criticism on each of you: I've been a little underwhelmed with Delaclava's Baptism of Iron hosting. I've seen no stadium information to let the newbies know where they are playing; no national information to give them background to use in their RPs (If I've just missed it, do tell and I will delete this part). This stuff is important to generate interest in first-time participants, in my opinion, which is what will especially be needed in the Baptism of Fire. Burchadinger has potential but is raw, as shown by his changing of the start date of the Burchadinger Invitational Cup about three or four times. I have full confidence in your ability to use NSFS, scorinate timely, and evaluate RPs, and if this becomes the only BoF bid, I will approve it. I just feel that the BoF needs more newbie integration; the CoH doesn't and would have probably been the better option for each of you if you wanted to work together. You're each going to be fine, I think, but most of us do start out with a WCC-experienced co-host. I did.

[Commerce Heights]

I have full confidence in your ability to use NSFS

Are they using NSFS?

[Die Adler]

We were actually contemplating the CoH. But for some awkward reason, we chose the BoF. I get it, a Newbie Tournament hosted by Newbies. It indeed sounds weird. But thanks for the consideration Newmanistan.

[Die Adler]

I have full confidence in your ability to use NSFS

Are they using NSFS?

We are

[Jeruselem]

Good luck, I can't help as I can't vote for BoF hosting.

[Die Adler]

Good luck, I can't help as I can't vote for BoF hosting.

Thanks Jeruselem.

[Sarzonia]

Newmanistan hit on the reason I was hesitant to support this bid straight away.

I think both of you will become solid contributors in time. You will likely become strong hosts before long. But give yourselves a chance to learn from a more experienced host before jumping into hosting. And by more experienced, preferably someone who's hosted at least one or two World Cups OR one or two of the tournaments you're aiming to host.

I'm not going to comment too much on the current Baptism of Iron, as I'm only tangentially following it, but adding a little bit of detail can provide some of the flavour that makes a tournament such as the Baptism of Fire Cup memorable.

[Quintessence of Dust]

Why do you want to host the BoF?

[Die Adler]

Why do you want to host the BoF?

First of all, thank you for asking that question. While there are quite a few reasons why both me and Delaclava want to host the BoF, I'll voice only 3 of them. First, to bring the "fun" back into the tournament. We want to encourage RPing, and we want to encourage players to interact with one another, we want to make the game more interactive and overall a more memorable experience. Second, both of the countries will benefit both Socially, and Economically. Socially, as in it encourages the youth of both nations to get more involved in the sport, to bring them out into the outdoors. And economically, from the profits of hosting the vent. And third, the pure pride of hosting one of the world's most prestigious events.

The reasons are a mix of IC and OOC.

[Liventia]

I'm not really comfortable with having two (effectively) newbie hosts handle this tournament together, and want to reiterate the point already raised that it would have been much better had you both bid separately with an established host. If you win the bid and anything goes wrong, an established host would certainly be able to control any situation. From what I have seen so far from Burchadinger's handling of his own tournament, he isn't able yet to handle such a thing, as Newmanistan has pointed out regarding the constant changing of the tournament dates.

I'm afraid I'm unlikely to vote for this bid. I do still get the feeling, Burchadinger, that you're trying to rush into hosting a WCC event. Get your head down, complete a few more hosting events and take part in maybe one more World Cup cycle, get more involved with our community, then perhaps it would be more apt a time for you to start bidding.

[Starblaydia]

I'm in full agreement with LE on this bid.

[Die Adler]

Now, I don't want to sound like a grouch or anything negative. But seriously, I don't see the problem with two inexperienced hosts bidding. Now, the difference between an inexperienced host and an experienced host is time. The experienced host has done it numerous times, but the inexperienced host hasn't. This doesn't mean that the inexperienced host is unable or is not skilled enough to host a tournament like the Baptism of Fire. Another thing, many of you may know The Babbage Islands. The Babbage Islands came in at around the same time as Delaclava did, and they competed in the same Baptism of Fire. Now, the TBI has gone on to host many important tournaments, while Delaclava has been more or less ignored even though they arrived on the scene at pretty much the same time. And don't blame Delaclava for not trying, because he has. Another thing is that both of us think that new nations might feel more at home with less experienced nations hosting because they can sympathize with hosts who are closer in experience. Basically, on our hosting experience, there's no reason to think we can't do this.

[Sarzonia]

Now, I don't want to sound like a grouch or anything negative. But seriously, I don't see the problem with two inexperienced hosts bidding. Now, the difference between an inexperienced host and an experienced host is time.

Honestly, that is a BIG difference. If something major comes along that could seriously damage the way a World Cup is handled, an inexperienced host might very well make matters worse because he doesn't know how to handle a situation. If both hosts are inexperienced, it could be a major problem.

If something major comes up that could seriously damage the way a World Cup is handled and there's an experienced host working with an inexperienced host, that experienced host has seen most of the situations that have come about, or at least has been around the block when something similar has happened. He or she will most likely remember how previous hosts have handled the similar circumstance and will be more likely to solve the problem before it becomes worse.

Those of us who are raising these points aren't doing this because we dislike either of you. Many of us have said you both have potential. I said so in my last post on this thread. I can understand feeling more at home with someone who has a similar experience level to yours, but there's also something to be said for developing a relationship with the more senior member of the hosting pair. The senior host could very well take the less experienced host under his or her wing and the experience would benefit both players greatly.

[Daehanjeiguk]

Now, I don't want to sound like a grouch or anything negative. But seriously, I don't see the problem with two inexperienced hosts bidding. Now, the difference between an inexperienced host and an experienced host is time. The experienced host has done it numerous times, but the inexperienced host hasn't. This doesn't mean that the inexperienced host is unable or is not skilled enough to host a tournament like the Baptism of Fire. Another thing, many of you may know The Babbage Islands. The Babbage Islands came in at around the same time as Delaclava did, and they competed in the same Baptism of Fire. Now, the TBI has gone on to host many important tournaments, while Delaclava has been more or less ignored even though they arrived on the scene at pretty much the same time. And don't blame Delaclava for not trying, because he has. Another thing is that both of us think that new nations might feel more at home with less experienced nations hosting because they can sympathize with hosts who are closer in experience. Basically, on our hosting experience, there's no reason to think we can't do this.

I'm going to pull a book from my shelf, called "BoF28". It goes like this:

One day, a random n00b comes around and decides that it is now time to host a really big and grand event, and decides on a whim to host it on his own. Granted, he's had the experience to host this thing; he can convince others to let him handle it all on his own.

And lo, he submits his bid, and amidst little opposition, others grant him the right to do it.

The first day he gets to it, he runs into a serious problem. "Oh my!" says the little n00b, "My guests have all arrived, and now that I've taken care of the first batch, I don't know what to do with the next one! What to do? What to do?"

And just as the little n00b started off worrying about how to fix that problem, another problem arrose - some of the guests were starting to disappear into thin air! "Oh my!" says the little n00b, " My guests are disappearing for no apparent reason, and now my full tables seem so suddenly empty! And I don't know what to do! What to do? What to do?"

Eventually, the little n00b makes some really rash decisions, telling his guests to be calm while he goes about reconstructing the whole event in front of their eyes. Eventually, some old-timer comes around and says, "Look little n00b. You're going about this really spaztastically. You need to calm down, and think straight. You don't need to go about this random business of fixing everything when only one or two things are going wrong. Just take some time, figure out a solution to fix those problems, and get on to serving the guests just as normal."

"Gee!" says the little n00b, "that's really good advice. Thanks for the input!"

And so, the little n00b heeded the old-timer's advice and got to fixing the little things. It was soon apparent that the old-timer was right, and with the small repairs to the guest list, as well as a little bit of fixing the services, the little n00b went on to have a great event. That little n00b later went on to host even bigger events and lived happily ever after. Maybe...

And just in case you think I'm being derogatory, that little n00b was me.

The point being, of course anyone can host an event. The problem we find is that there are inevitably some problems that come about with hosting an event. Take, for example, the hosting error made during qualification. The Max Points was not correct as it should have been, and there had already been 5 matches played. Would an inexperienced host made the same sort of decision as the present WC Hosts did? Furthermore, how would they deal with the potential backlash that would result from such a mistake? You might think that hosting is no big deal, but the WCC gets quite proprietary when it comes to hosting big events, because anything can happen. And usually, the more experienced hosts are better able to handle the situations that might arise than the more inexperienced ones can.

I'm not saying that you can't host the BoF by yourself, but things will go much more smoothly if there is someone who has some experience to handle the tidbits of randomness IRL. The tournament goes on well, you learn something about flexibility and reasonable alternatives (hopefully), and everyone hopefully gets along nicely. And hopefully, you'll have a kind cohost who gently prods in the right direction if you go the wrong direction (because, trust me, you will go the wrong direction; no one does it right the first/second/third/fourth/ish time).

Find someone who has previously hosted a WC, a CoH, or a BoF. Then learn from them first-hand. This is a far different test than ye-olde regional and invitational tournaments are. And hopefully, you'll get more out of it than simply hosting a random online numerology consortium.

And nevermind that this is basically a longer, drawn-out version of what Sarzonia just said .


And to address your other concerns: The Babbages Islands is co-hosting with an experienced co-host (Newmanistan), albeit they're both novices to the World Cup. I think they're doing rather well considering the challenges that they've had to face so far.

Newbies guiding newbies is also like the blind leading the blind.

[Krytenia]

I, too, have reservations about two relatively untested nations hosting. However, rather than offer criticism, I offer wisdom and experience. I am willing, with the hosts say-so of course, to offer my services as "hosting consultant" for the competition. Effectively, if the BoF were to run smoothly, I would do nothing; however, if problems were to arise and the hosts were unsure what to do, I would act as "go-to guy" to help guide them through the problem.

This is, of course, merely an offer; Del and Burch can accept or reject it as they see fit.

[Liventia]

Basically, on our hosting experience, there's no reason to think we can't do this.

No offence, but I think we have all yet to see any of your past hosting experience, considering you've not even completed one full tournament as a host within the NS sporting community (regional tournaments aside). We've also not been able to see how you ran your regional tournament apart from you just posting all the scores from it in your withdrawn CoH bid thread.

If I recall correctly, hosting a BoF puts one into the line of succession to the WCC Presidency. Perhaps this should be changed and is a discussion for a different time, but this is rather dangerous territory to go into when you've not even been around the community for one full WC cycle.

[Sarzonia]

I am willing, with the hosts say-so of course, to offer my services as "hosting consultant" for the competition. Effectively, if the BoF were to run smoothly, I would do nothing; however, if problems were to arise and the hosts were unsure what to do, I would act as "go-to guy" to help guide them through the problem.

I think that would be a great compromise solution that would allow this bid to go forward.

If things go smoothly and a Delaclav-Burchadinger Baptism of Fire Cup is successful, they both gain solid experience, even if it is rather early in their NS Sports participation. If something does go wrong, there's someone who can help in a similar fashion to a more experienced co-host.

I'll be honest. Besides the recent handball competition, I don't have a whole lot of hosting experience. I've co-hosted a futsal championship with The Macabees and co-hosted a Basketball World Cup with Pacitalia over here and I hosted an AO Bowl on a regional board. However, I have the added benefit of years of participation in sporting competitions. I've seen a lot of the things that can go wrong, and when I had an issue with the handball world cup, I was able to resolve it quickly and to the satisfaction of those affected.

There's no substitute for experience...

[Die Adler]

I, too, have reservations about two relatively untested nations hosting. However, rather than offer criticism, I offer wisdom and experience. I am willing, with the hosts say-so of course, to offer my services as "hosting consultant" for the competition. Effectively, if the BoF were to run smoothly, I would do nothing; however, if problems were to arise and the hosts were unsure what to do, I would act as "go-to guy" to help guide them through the problem.

This is, of course, merely an offer; Del and Burch can accept or reject it as they see fit.

We'll really like that Kry. Thanks.

[Andrewboy]

although i cant yet vot, for what its worth i suport this bid

[Sarzonia]

The only people who CAN vote for Baptism of Fire Cup or Cup of Harmony hosts are the Executive World Cup Committee, which consists of host nations. Acting RPers can vote for World Cup hosts.

[Balida]

Now, I don't want to sound like a grouch or anything negative. But seriously, I don't see the problem with two inexperienced hosts bidding. Now, the difference between an inexperienced host and an experienced host is time. The experienced host has done it numerous times, but the inexperienced host hasn't. This doesn't mean that the inexperienced host is unable or is not skilled enough to host a tournament like the Baptism of Fire. Another thing, many of you may know The Babbage Islands. The Babbage Islands came in at around the same time as Delaclava did, and they competed in the same Baptism of Fire. Now, the TBI has gone on to host many important tournaments, while Delaclava has been more or less ignored even though they arrived on the scene at pretty much the same time. And don't blame Delaclava for not trying, because he has. Another thing is that both of us think that new nations might feel more at home with less experienced nations hosting because they can sympathize with hosts who are closer in experience. Basically, on our hosting experience, there's no reason to think we can't do this.

I can agree with that. I tell you as an inexperienced nation, the nations hosting were very intimidating at first.

[Somewhereistonia]

Now, I don't want to sound like a grouch or anything negative. But seriously, I don't see the problem with two inexperienced hosts bidding. Now, the difference between an inexperienced host and an experienced host is time. The experienced host has done it numerous times, but the inexperienced host hasn't. This doesn't mean that the inexperienced host is unable or is not skilled enough to host a tournament like the Baptism of Fire. Another thing, many of you may know The Babbage Islands. The Babbage Islands came in at around the same time as Delaclava did, and they competed in the same Baptism of Fire. Now, the TBI has gone on to host many important tournaments, while Delaclava has been more or less ignored even though they arrived on the scene at pretty much the same time. And don't blame Delaclava for not trying, because he has. Another thing is that both of us think that new nations might feel more at home with less experienced nations hosting because they can sympathize with hosts who are closer in experience. Basically, on our hosting experience, there's no reason to think we can't do this.

OK, I don't mind sounding like a grouch from time to time, I can't sleep (so I at least have an excuse) and I feel I already have been a bit grouchy already, so I've already passed the threshold. I'm being a grouch right now.

So, Babbage Islands did come in at around the same time as Delaclava, that is true. Babbage Island then set about setting up various tournaments and making scorinators for tournaments such as the Babbage Rules Football thingy and the Golfinator. Delaclava on the other hand has chased several newbies away from NS Sports, constantly berating them and often feeding them incorrect information in a manner I find incredibly annoying. There is a reason that I didn't sign up to his tournament you know. Here is a good example of similar behaviour on nswiki: http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=Talk:Ohio

OK, so Delaclava is not perfect, should he chance, I would be willing to accept him as a potential host, as it stands I would prefer for him to be as far away as possible from scaring of new people who may not know their way around the unfamiliar environment of a world cup. Hosting a Baptism of Fire is about trying to create an environment for new people to get used to the World Cup. If Delaclava responds to these newbies as he did to Palmouth, Las Lisque and several others then I can see people being scared off. The opposite of what I wish to happen. Delaclava has not been ignored, he has gained a very poor rappour, whilst TBI has worked well with the community and done a good job in hosting several events.

Now, personally I found that Babbage Islands was rushing into hosting a WCC tournament, given the lack of knowledge of using NSFS, a feeling I feel was vindicated by the maxpoints issue. These things happen, we can move on. I have no grudge against TBI, who simply did not know, it was only when the experienced hosts inquired about it that the issue became resolved. I'm not saying that we shouldn't allow new hosts to come through by any means, hell, that would rule me out of my plans to host WC51 (the first cup I feel I may be ready to host). I'm saying that having new hosts come through too quickly is not a good thing, it creates problems that a more experienced host could have seen and avoided. When I hosted BoF35 with Kura-Pelland, it was K-P (the more experienced host) who ensured that we used a sensible RP bonus system and used a good maxpoints value etc. You need a more experienced host for these things generally, something that is lacking in this bid.

Next, you (Burchadinger). You seem full of enthusiasm and you have a lot of potential. Should you find yourself an experienced bidding partner you could easily become an important and valued host in NS Sports. You just need to restrain that enthusiasm a bit, don't just choose the first bidding partner or run by yourself. Wait, get a better feel for things and go from there.

As for feeling threatened or whatever, I think that new people could feel this at any time (they are new and often unsure of themselves), we have to be nice and helpful to them, something I tried to do during the BoF I hosted. It matters more that the tournament is helpful and welcoming to newbies than how recent the host's nation was founded. I think I've finished here for now.

Note to Delaclava: this is not meant in any way as a personal attack, I just feel that you have been unhelpful. Some inflection might be all that is needed to make you a more welcomed member of the community.

[Delaclava]

Somewhereistonia, I wouldn't disagree. I would say that, in the beginning, I wasn't exactly very nice to newer nations (although you may be exaggerating a little), but that was kind of before I found my place in the community and learned to, quite frankly, shut up (most of the time). In fact, hosting this tournament would be a great chance for me to show that I have matured and that I can treat newbies with respect.