WC66 Bid - Ossidiacqua and Aels

[Ossidiacqua]

BID THREAD
The Republic of Ossidiacqua and the Free Land of Aels humbly present to you all a bid for the 66th World Cup for your consideration and approval

WHO?
Ossidiacqua and Aels are both lesser known puppets of their more well known masters, Polar Islandstates and Liventia respectively, both of whom are experienced and respected members of the NSSport community. Polar Islandstates' experience includes World Cup 59, Cup of Harmony 49, Baptism of Fire 48, Copa Rushmori XII, the Ellismare Preliminara (a hefty one-off cycling event), the CdlP, the Cuppets I and II and soon to be V as well as their organisation, as well as the Sokhorosk Linii Amateur Shield and regular editions of the Seasogs Rugby Union Championship Trophy and the Rushmori CdC. Liventia's experience includes four World Cups, three CoHs, four BoFs, world championship events in field hockey, baseball and grand prix racing, a number of Cygnus Cup editions, two Winter Olympics, the Rushmori Games and one Winter Paralympics. Liventia is also currently hosting the Summer Olympics, at present the biggest hosting task on NS Sport.

WHY?
Both users are encouraged by the presence of two rival bids from nations that aren't in the pile of recent World Cup hosts, but believe that competition is always a good thing, and so we are bidding. The IC geographical proximity of our bidding nations would also make for an interesting and entirely 'realistic' idea that these two nations could host a tournament. Both nations have interesting IC histories that would make for an engaging RP topic for any participating nation. For both users, it has been a while since they hosted a World Cup, and both would relish the opportunity.

HOW?
Obviously, format will depend on the number of signups, and there needs to be a certain amount of fluidity involved with the bid, but both nations have a preference for twenty groups of however many nations, as this would give us twenty groups winners and then a set of ten double legged playoffs to determine the thirty qualifiers. These playoffs would be seeded, with rank and RP bonus so far each contributing equally to a nation's rank. Hopefully, with the new signups procedure, this wouldn't lead to groups as big as we have seen previously.

For the finals themselves, this should be self-explanatory.

Tie-breakers would be head-to-head results, head-to-head goal difference, wins, goals for, and finally, a play-in match with extra time and penalties, though obviously this is a last resort.

SCORED BY?
Scorination would be done with xkoranate 0.3.3 using the SQIS formula. To accommodate Aels' international move, cutoffs and scorinations would be done first by Ossidiacqua, coming at Midnight BST (11pm UTC) as the user behind Ossidiacqua is UK-based. The cutoffs and scorinations for the other half of qualifiers would be done by Aels, coming at the same time. Both users will post a "24 hour warning" post 24 hours before their respective first cutoffs, to alert those that may be confused by time zones as to the time cycle they're getting into, for whom this link may also be useful.

HOW DO I SCORE BONUS?
Both hosts will always be looking to award bonus rather than take it away. The scoring system will be a cumulative five-tier one used by Ossidiacqua in BoF48, scored on quality, creativity, and length, in that order. Respect for your opponent's RP permissions will not be something the RP itself is graded on as such, but bonus scores will be penalised if permissions are not respected. The RP bonus will degrade over time, promoting and rewarding continuing participation, though it will never degrade to zero. The creation and provision of a roster will be scored the same as a matchday's worth of RP, though this bonus will never decline with time, and multiple RPs per matchday from any nation will be grouped together and scored as one. The absolute system will be used. For bonus carrying through to the finals, a nation's entire qualification RP tally will be taken across and counted as, in effect, a 'second roster' that doesn't decline either. This is also where the home advantage will come in for hosts.

DO I GET TO CHOOSE MY STYLE?
You do indeed. Full range of -5 to +5.

Any questions welcomed.

[Saugeais]

The only question I had was if Aels' Olympic commitment would run into this event, but given that the Baptism of Fire needs to play out first and the voting and finishing of signups before then leads me to believe that won't be a problem.

Two well-known users behind these puppet nations that have done a lot for the community, and have loads of hosting experience. They certainly have my vote of confidence, but with three bids now, I'll have to look at each one more carefully.

[Aels]

The only question I had was if Aels' Olympic commitment would run into this event, but given that the Baptism of Fire needs to play out first and the voting and finishing of signups before then leads me to believe that won't be a problem.

That's right; in any case Ossidiacqua/PIS will be taking the first half of qualifying anyway if we are voted in.

[Eura]

I think that this is a very strong bid. Both hosts have a lot of experience, their flexible on the structure of qualification, they're using clear and consistent cutoff times and even the IC reasoning of the bid is good. On a personal note I still need to look at one of the other two bids in a bit more detail before I come to my own judgement but this bid looks like a good one.

Like Saugeais I was initially a bit wary about workload, seeing as PIS is obviously very busy IRL at the moment while Aels is scorinating the Olympics and in a rather unusual timezone. But given that the World Cup probably won't start for another month at least, I doubt it will be anything to worry about. After all I doubt you guys would be bidding if you couldn't handle the workload.

[Colombian Britannia]

I certain like the bid but, if I had a vote... (I don't) I'd be more tempted to vote for one of the first time hosts.

So, let me ask. Why should you host over other (what seem to be) proven hosts that have NEVER hosted a World Cup?

[Aels]

Like Saugeais I was initially a bit wary about workload, seeing as PIS is obviously very busy IRL at the moment while Aels is scorinating the Olympics and in a rather unusual timezone. But given that the World Cup probably won't start for another month at least, I doubt it will be anything to worry about. After all I doubt you guys would be bidding if you couldn't handle the workload.

I don't see how UTC+8 is particularly unusual (it is the main timezone for all of China, as well as Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan, and Western Australia), but if it helps at all — and this is mentioned in the bid — I will be moving back to England before I commence my hosting duties.

[Aels]

I certain like the bid but, if I had a vote... (I don't) I'd be more tempted to vote for one of the first time hosts.

So, let me ask. Why should you host over other (what seem to be) proven hosts that have NEVER hosted a World Cup?

I find it intriguing you're not asking the other bids why they should host over a bid which has WC hosting experience, but in any case I don't think it's fair to say we "should" or "shouldn't" host because there are other bids which involve hosts who haven't hosted a World Cup. Whether someone has hosted a World Cup (specifically) in the past should be irrelevant.

I feel bids should be judged on their substance as well as the prospective hosts' overall hosting experience, not whether or not the pair has ever hosted the particular tournament in question.

With our bid, voters can be sure they will get a very experienced pair of hands who know what they are doing and can guarantee a smooth running of NS football's largest and most important tournament.

[Cassadaigua]

Just curious: Why host with Ossidicqua and not Polar Islandstates? PIS, as a top nation in the world, would seem to present better RP opportunities for people. Polar Islandstates and Ossidicqua are both Rushmori, so the IC proximity still happens, and I don't really think Ossidicqua's IC history compares to PIS.

Not a vote-breaker, just curious.

[Polar Islandstates]

Like Saugeais I was initially a bit wary about workload, seeing as PIS is obviously very busy IRL at the moment...

Timing was the main issue when Aels approached me, yes, but we calculated that the tournament itself, after voting and the BoF, wouldn't start until the very end of August or the start of September, when I will be free of moving flat commitments, and familial/girlfriend visits will have finished until October half term.

Just curious: Why host with Ossidicqua and not Polar Islandstates? PIS, as a top nation in the world, would seem to present better RP opportunities for people. Polar Islandstates and Ossidicqua are both Rushmori, so the IC proximity still happens, and I don't really think Ossidicqua's IC history compares to PIS.

Not a vote-breaker, just curious.

I was asked this in the bidding process for BoF48. It is a fair question, and to answer it I refer you to my answer then, which is as it is now.

So why are you using puppets instead of the master nations?

We were asked this question not so long ago on irc, so I'm copying(and adding to) this across from there - so if the phrasing is a bit odd, that's why...

[Can't speak for Asto] but for me i just like ossidiacqua as a mental place to RP with or in. a) I think its a more interesting place for people come to and RP as a first timer than polar islandstates, which is a bit run of the mill in terms of nations go, really, apart from the obvious "Oh it's cold here" thing. And b) i'm hoping it will unlock new ways for me to get into it and RP it myself.

Compare
"Where's my match? Oh, a town called Surtsey in a regular stadium. that will be about two lines in my RP then."
With
"Where's my match? a town called Collindiana where the stadium is suspended over a RAVINE on wires?! that's going to need more than a few lines to write about."

Not to mention that in ossidiacqua there is no national grid, electronic and mechanical devices are fixed by priests, largely with "hit it and hope" tactics supplemented with prayer, the running water from springs runs black, and there is no rain. I just think it would be a more fruitful setting for RPs than Polar Islandstates would be.

Ossidiacqua is a weird place. I think it would provide a rich tapestry in which to RP.

Also, on a purely selfish basis, PIS is currently top of the rankings, and I'd like them to still be top of the rankings when the finals swing around. In other words, I wouldn't want hosting to damage my chances of winning the thing with my main nation.

[Eura]

Like Saugeais I was initially a bit wary about workload, seeing as PIS is obviously very busy IRL at the moment while Aels is scorinating the Olympics and in a rather unusual timezone. But given that the World Cup probably won't start for another month at least, I doubt it will be anything to worry about. After all I doubt you guys would be bidding if you couldn't handle the workload.

I don't see how UTC+8 is particularly unusual (it is the main timezone for all of China, as well as Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan, and Western Australia), but if it helps at all — and this is mentioned in the bid — I will be moving back to England before I commence my hosting duties.

I meant unusual in the sense that hosts usually are from an Americas or European timezone. But either way I don't think it affects your capability to host.

[Colombian Britannia]

I certain like the bid but, if I had a vote... (I don't) I'd be more tempted to vote for one of the first time hosts.

So, let me ask. Why should you host over other (what seem to be) proven hosts that have NEVER hosted a World Cup?

I find it intriguing you're not asking the other bids why they should host over a bid which has WC hosting experience, but in any case I don't think it's fair to say we "should" or "shouldn't" host because there are other bids which involve hosts who haven't hosted a World Cup. Whether someone has hosted a World Cup (specifically) in the past should be irrelevant.

I feel bids should be judged on their substance as well as the prospective hosts' overall hosting experience, not whether or not the pair has ever hosted the particular tournament in question.

With our bid, voters can be sure they will get a very experienced pair of hands who know what they are doing and can guarantee a smooth running of NS football's largest and most important tournament.

If we only have those who have previously hosted word cups host world cups... than no one new will ever enter the mix. Granted, you don't always want new nations hosting it but from my POV the other bids seem to be solid bids WITH the added bonus that they are new clubs.

Though, you have mentioned that participants can use the rich rp histories and what not of Aels and Ossidiacqua, which for me... is a big plus. In what ways would you plan to facilitate this?

[Polar Islandstates]

Personally, by laying out the history and the quirks of the nation in a series of posts that would lead up to the finals.

For the finals themselves, and possibly also for I would also allocate an IC Team Liaison Officer, like I did for the Copa I hosted, where people can do as they wish with them. There was a moderate take-up for the Copa, where people could kill them, use them to destabilise their players, attempt to lead a political coup with them, all permissions granted, etc, and it would be an idea I'd look into using again.

Other than providing the backdrop, I'm not sure what you mean by facilitating people taking part?

[Colombian Britannia]

Personally, by laying out the history and the quirks of the nation in a series of posts that would lead up to the finals.

For the finals themselves, and possibly also for I would also allocate an IC Team Liaison Officer, like I did for the Copa I hosted, where people can do as they wish with them. There was a moderate take-up for the Copa, where people could kill them, use them to destabilise their players, attempt to lead a political coup with them, all permissions granted, etc, and it would be an idea I'd look into using again.

Other than providing the backdrop, I'm not sure what you mean by facilitating people taking part?

One example would be for when I hosted the CoH and I tried to have an ongoing storyline... open to as many people as I could (though primarily between myself and Novikov) reguarding the treatment of Novikovan and some other foreign fans in Virabia.

Something like that, I reckon. Though I will say that what you listed is not bad at all.. and I will definately be posing the same/similar questions to the other hosts as well..

[Free South Califas]

The only question I had was if Aels' Olympic commitment would run into this event, but given that the Baptism of Fire needs to play out first and the voting and finishing of signups before then leads me to believe that won't be a problem.

Two well-known users behind these puppet nations that have done a lot for the community, and have loads of hosting experience. They certainly have my vote of confidence, but with three bids now, I'll have to look at each one more carefully.

I agree with the above at this point, FTR.

---

Can style mods/roster bonuses change, and if so, is there a limit on how many times?

[Aels]

The only question I had was if Aels' Olympic commitment would run into this event, but given that the Baptism of Fire needs to play out first and the voting and finishing of signups before then leads me to believe that won't be a problem.

Two well-known users behind these puppet nations that have done a lot for the community, and have loads of hosting experience. They certainly have my vote of confidence, but with three bids now, I'll have to look at each one more carefully.

I agree with the above at this point, FTR.

---

Can style mods/roster bonuses change, and if so, is there a limit on how many times?

I don't think we'll be changing roster bonuses after the initial award. We'll judge each roster once and give an appropriate bonus for each when first posted, but I don't believe roster bonuses have been changed in the past and I don't intend to open a possible Pandora's Box now.

As for style mods, my personal preference is to allow them to be changed just once, and only if the change is backed by RP. That is merely a personal preference, though. As of right now there is nothing set in stone as to whether we'll allow style mod changes. It's something we'll look at and discuss.

---

In response to CB, I'm apprehensive at getting too involved in other people's RPs. As PIS has said, we'll provide a colourful RP setting (after all, who doesn't like playing World Cup football in low-capacity stadia with dodgy histories?) but I wouldn't say we'll lay out specific scenarios.

[Astograth]

Can't find anything wrong with this bid, which is certainly the "safer" option this time around. I'm familiar with the RP bonus system being applied, having introduced PIS/Ossidiacqua to it for BoF 48 and later modifying it slightly for WC62 (not sure we used tiers) - both times it produced satisfactory results, as far as I can tell. My only concern would be for Liventia's mental sanity, hosting the World Cup just after the Olympics, but I trust both hosts to do an absolutely professional job with the tournament. Still won't be an easy choice with 3 bids to pick from, which is nice to see.

[Valanora]

Given that both of the bids that came up before yours are both looking to utilize Xkoranate and the SQIS system, why did you not look to offer an alternative? It is nothing against your bid, but two of the bids are nearly identical, just with different names attached and some true variety would be nice. Also, what is the motivation to choose a degrading bonus over a cumulative non degrading bonus?

[Aels]

Given that both of the bids that came up before yours are both looking to utilize Xkoranate and the SQIS system, why did you not look to offer an alternative? It is nothing against your bid, but two of the bids are nearly identical, just with different names attached and some true variety would be nice.

We are not bidding for the sake of providing "variety". We are bidding with a set of parameters within which we feel we can best deliver a successful World Cup; in this instance we feel that xkoranate using the SQIS formula is the best way for us to do so.

Also, what is the motivation to choose a degrading bonus over a cumulative non degrading bonus?

As we state in the bid, the bonus will never degrade to zero, and continuous RP participation will still reap rewards. If the numbers require us to utilise a format involving a long group stage, a degrading bonus is the best method to ensure that the three Rs remain balanced, while repeat RPers will still have enough of a substantial bonus to keep them interested.

[Alasdair I Frosticus]

Logistically, it's an excellent bid by two highly qualified hosts who would no doubt deliver a superb tournament.

Away from the logistics, though, I'm not sure I'm wholly comfortable about giving a free pass into the final 32 to a 92nd-ranked nation with very little WC history that I can recall (I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong here, or if my memory's letting me down badly).

Which is absolutely no slur on the ability of Liventia/Aels, who is one of our most qualified and skilled hosts; but on a purely personal level, the Aels puppet wouldn't be my ideal preferred host team partner option.

I haven't looked at the other bid closely yet - I'm catching up after a busy week of RL work and some intense behind the scenes moderation discussions - so I'll reserve final judgement until I've had a chance to read through the other bid in detail.

[Liventia]

Away from the logistics, though, I'm not sure I'm wholly comfortable about giving a free pass into the final 32 to a 92nd-ranked nation with very little WC history that I can recall (I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong here, or if my memory's letting me down badly).

There is precedent (also involving me) — WC37 was hosted by Ad’ihan in my second cycle with that nation (much as Aels would be in WC66); Ad’ihan were ranked 71st (and of course there were fewer nations in the rankings then. I don't know the exact KPB points though). In more recent times, I believe Star bid to host in his first cup back as a very low-ranked nation (and only lost by two votes), so I really don't see the issue. If I may, I'll link to Star's post at that time, which I broadly agree with: here. Aels will be seeded fourth for the finals draw if we are elected.

Which is absolutely no slur on the ability of Liventia/Aels, who is one of our most qualified and skilled hosts; but on a purely personal level, the Aels puppet wouldn't be my ideal preferred host team partner option.

On the WC side of things, Aels is my main nation — I no longer RP with Liventia in the WC — and it wouldn't be right for me to bid with Liventia.

[Edit for accuracy – Star had 2 KPB points when he bid for WC60]

[Qazox]

...

Also, on a purely selfish basis, PIS is currently top of the rankings, and I'd like them to still be top of the rankings when the finals swing around. In other words, I wouldn't want hosting to damage my chances of winning the thing with my main nation.

Ugh, something about that paragraph just sits wrong with me. Not quite sure what though. Oh yeah, the rank protection you think you'd get. As a host, you'd probably retain your rank anyways using PIS instead. Not a huge criticism, but just doesn't come off as a good reason to use your puppet.

[Taeshan]

...

Also, on a purely selfish basis, PIS is currently top of the rankings, and I'd like them to still be top of the rankings when the finals swing around. In other words, I wouldn't want hosting to damage my chances of winning the thing with my main nation.

Ugh, something about that paragraph just sits wrong with me. Not quite sure what though. Oh yeah, the rank protection you think you'd get. As a host, you'd probably retain your rank anyways using PIS instead. Not a huge criticism, but just doesn't come off as a good reason to use your puppet.

Yeah i got to say, as a statement that really comes off as not only selfish but somewhat harsh towards your opponents. Sure its a dog eat dog world and you want to succeed and win all you can win, and try to win a world cup, but as a stated reason as to why you want to host that comes off as a bit not in the spirit of the game. Definitely not the first nation to prop up a puppet by giving them a chance to qualify without worry when you're top team is assured of a spot and your lower team needs a little help. (Most recently Pasarga has been in this position, but notable other examples include teams such choices as Ad'ihan, Demot yada yada) That said im sure this is not really a factor in most people's views of the bid. It's just a bit, off putting.

[Polar Islandstates]

Ugh, something about that paragraph just sits wrong with me. Not quite sure what though. Oh yeah, the rank protection you think you'd get. As a host, you'd probably retain your rank anyways using PIS instead. Not a huge criticism, but just doesn't come off as a good reason to use your puppet.

Yeah i got to say, as a statement that really comes off as not only selfish but somewhat harsh towards your opponents. Sure its a dog eat dog world and you want to succeed and win all you can win, and try to win a world cup, but as a stated reason as to why you want to host that comes off as a bit not in the spirit of the game. Definitely not the first nation to prop up a puppet by giving them a chance to qualify without worry when you're top team is assured of a spot and your lower team needs a little help. (Most recently Pasarga has been in this position, but notable other examples include teams such choices as Ad'ihan, Demot yada yada) That said im sure this is not really a factor in most people's views of the bid. It's just a bit, off putting.

I want to win, so sue me. I'm sure I'm not the only one on here. I love writing this stuff for this site, but goddamn that final defeat to Wight hurt, and I want to win it. I'm sure Audioslavia knows what I'm talking about.

I can also assure you that I wouldn't be bidding with Ossidiacqua had they not qualified last cycle off their/my own back(s); CTE of vital nation notwithstanding.

With regards to the hosts retaining their rank, it is normal is it not for hosts to be given the average qualification rank contribution of teams that made the finals? I'd rather create my own rank and keep it topped up, for now, just whilst I'm at the top of the pile with my main nation. I'm not ruling out ever bidding with Polar Islandstates ever again, in fact I plan to in the future, but on this instance I don't want to be my own worst enemy when it comes to my chances of winning the thing by choosing to host and guaranteeing that I'll only get an average rank contribution from the qualifiers.

[Liventia]

Most recently Pasarga has been in this position, but notable other examples include teams such choices as Ad'ihan, Demot yada yada

I don't know where you're getting that from; when Ad’ihan hosted WC37 Liventia wasn't in the World Cup. By the next time I hosted, Ad’ihan were established as my main nation. Liventia was nowhere near in the picture.

[Vilita]

it is normal is it not for hosts to be given the average qualification rank contribution of teams that made the finals?

I'm confused by this statement, are you referring to what exactly? What you get in KPB's? That would be a set value