Domestic GRIDIRON / AMERICAN FOOTBALL Discussion Thread! OOC

[International Gridiron Champions League]

Anarchies and gentlestates, here is a matter concerning all interested parties.

ECP#4 Automatically Accept New Members passed:
Yes 3
No 0
Abstain 1

As such, the following shall become the second Resolution of the Executive Council and bylaw of the Champions League:

REC#2 Automatically Accept New Members
Author: Sicoutimont
Co-author: Free South Califas

In a binding resolution which will take effect after Solidarity Bowl IV has been completed, the Executive Council shall automatically accept, as Members with full voice and vote, a representative from each league which has participated in two completed IGCL campaigns. (OOC: Unless the same user already controls a league specific to themselves which is currently a member of the Executive Council, or was legally banned from the Executive Council.)

The Resolution will be added to the factbook, and will take effect as follows:

IGCL 4: If Zandistan participates in another cycle, that nation's league would become a Member after Solidarity Bowl IV has been completed, unless they withdraw or something. They would be the first non-charter Member, although there is no current distinction observed between the two.
IGCL 5: If (a) new league(s) (OOC: user) participates felicitously in IGCL 4 and 5, they will similarly become Member(s) after Solidarity Bowl V has been completed.
And so on.

Thanks for your interest and participation. There are no other proposals in the queue currently. Any completed proposal may be submitted to International Gridiron Champions League at any time, and so can nominations for Delegate.

If you have an idea to improve the way the Champions League is run, please send your idea to the Proposal Editor at Central North America and we will work with you on turning your idea into a new rule we can vote on. Any current rule can be revised, amended or repealed if you are interested and can secure the votes.

Solidarity,

[The Fanboyists]

Just wondering, what was the thinking behind having the next Champions' League cycle so close to the last one?

I only ask because this presents an RP difficulty for me; I try and line up my domestic league seasons as going 1:1 to World Bowl Cycles (I RP the World Bowl as an annual occurrence for my RP purposes, since there's no hard and fast rule for the IC time between cycles). Thus, putting multiple domestic league seasons presents RP difficulties either for the World Bowl cycles (I have to change the rate at which my characters age for the World Bowl) or the domestic league (I can't do the World Bowl departures and additions and roster changes relative to the domestic league, with players entering the league).

I can modify to fit, but I'm just wondering if this was a conscious decision, or if it was just a coincidence/happenstance.

[Free South Califas]

Just wondering, what was the thinking behind having the next Champions' League cycle so close to the last one?

I only ask because this presents an RP difficulty for me; I try and line up my domestic league seasons as going 1:1 to World Bowl Cycles (I RP the World Bowl as an annual occurrence for my RP purposes, since there's no hard and fast rule for the IC time between cycles). Thus, putting multiple domestic league seasons presents RP difficulties either for the World Bowl cycles (I have to change the rate at which my characters age for the World Bowl) or the domestic league (I can't do the World Bowl departures and additions and roster changes relative to the domestic league, with players entering the league).

I can modify to fit, but I'm just wondering if this was a conscious decision, or if it was just a coincidence/happenstance.

The timing of IGCL 3 was more or less mindless, I must admit. In planning IGCL 4, I remember looking at the domestic soccer newswires thread and thinking, for some reason, that I should aim to gradually bring the IGCL into the same temporal ballpark as that competition. I'm not sure why I thought that now, or even why I thought I had to come up with a timeframe myself, instead of asking the participants.

To that end, if anyone could share the ideal time window for them, that would be great. The current cutoff (this coming Monday) should be considered a very soft deadline; there is no reason it can't be pushed back further. I want to make sure we get as much participation as we can, without waiting so long that players feel the information is out of date. I'd also like to incorporate GAFA's schedule into the mix in particular, being the only member league that represents multiple players, and having been perhaps slightly disadvantaged by the IGCL formula in the past. I don't know why it didn't occur to me; I think I just wanted to get a date out there so we all knew it would happen in the near future.

So, gridiron footballers: A penny for your thoughts? (Specifically, when should IGCL 4 happen, and how long should lapse between future editions? Should it be tacked to the World Bowl schedule, etc.)

ETA: Vettrera has said that GAFA will end in late February or early March.

[Osarius]

I try to run one season of NSCF, OCGL and PGLO per World Bowl cycle... that's why I didn't enter the last IGCL. It was too soon for me *shrug*

[The Fanboyists]

On a related note, I'm going to test the waters in the World Bowl Discussion thread about actually setting a firm IC time-elapse between cycles (so people have a consistent number to work from when aging players and RPing and such).

My two-cents on the IGCL's timing is that, as it currently is, it probably makes the most sense to sync it up with the World Bowl Cycle. That said, if my above proposal goes through, and the World Bowl is determined to be less-frequent than an annual event (which is what I RP it as, currently), then perhaps modifying it. That way, it becomes easier for people to sync up their national teams with their domestic leagues, with a firm timetable/scale to work from.

[International Gridiron Champions League]

The cutoff will now tentatively be no sooner than Friday, February 22, time TBD. All interested parties are still very welcome to give their opinion, and as always, may submit a proposal to resolve the matter democratically.

[Bongo Johnson]

Am I able to fit my new league in time?

[Free South Califas]

Am I able to fit my new league in time?

Yep, you're fine. We'll be waiting at least a month from now, before the actual league happens. This is to make sure that everyone can participate.

[The Fanboyists]

Schoolwork struck something fierce, so I'm running a bit behind; been updating the rosters and realigning the divisions, so haven't quite had a chance to scorinate just yet. I can get it up by tomorrow, I think, though.

[International Gridiron Champions League]

In a perversely fortunate turn for the AGL, my computer has stopped computing. Old (2005) macbooks have incredibly resilient disks, main battery, screen and exteriors, but after a number of years the logic-board battery burns out (why of course). First your sound stops working, then eventually you can't log in at all.

I'm taking it in for repairs tomorrow, but in the meantime, IGCL 4 is postponed indefinitely.

Sorry everyone :/ I knew I should have taken it in when the sound failed, but I didn't know the computer would generally fail yet.

If AGL and GAFA submit tables before I return with a scorinator (I'm on my phone), another Executive Council member can volunteer (by TG to Free South Califas) to scorinate IGCL 4 in my stead. This would not engender any further responsibility, though as the EC has had zero interest in nominating a proper Delegate so far, taking over that role is also an option, it seems.

Members of the Executive Council are: all users who participated in IGCL 1 and/or 2.

[Quebecois Acadiana]

In a perversely fortunate turn for the AGL, my computer has stopped computing. Old (2005) macbooks have incredibly resilient disks, main battery, screen and exteriors, but after a number of years the logic-board battery burns out (why of course). First your sound stops working, then eventually you can't log in at all.

I'm taking it in for repairs tomorrow, but in the meantime, IGCL 4 is postponed indefinitely.

Sorry everyone :/ I knew I should have taken it in when the sound failed, but I didn't know the computer would generally fail yet.

If AGL and GAFA submit tables before I return with a scorinator (I'm on my phone), another Executive Council member can volunteer (by TG to Free South Califas) to scorinate IGCL 4 in my stead. This would not engender any further responsibility, though as the EC has had zero interest in nominating a proper Delegate so far, taking over that role is also an option, it seems.

Members of the Executive Council are: all users who participated in IGCL 1 and/or 2.

I'll try to get it done as soon as possible. Lately there has been some problems associated with scorination of the Wildcard matches (original scorinator who's supposed to replace me in that round didn't TG me with the results yet), but I'll try to proceed as soon as possible(If he's not sending me the results, then I guess I'll have to scorinate them by myself), as early as today evening.
So, expect them to be done by next Sunday or the Tuesday after.

EDIT: By the way, this is Quebec, who's temporarily in charge of GAFA

[The Fanboyists]

Sorry about the compy, FSC. Bad luck, there.

That said, I'll try to crank that thing out. I meant to get it done yesterday, but it turns out that divisional realignment (and an attempted downsizing) are much bigger projects than originally-intended.

[The Fanboyists]

I'll be posting mine some time tomorrow. Sorry about the lateness; life attacked. Midterms, travel, some bad news, WB Presidential duties...

[Michael VII]

I think I'll get back into my domestic sports leagues, so expect a Michaelean league to be placed here, although if it's late, don't extend just for me.

[Free South Califas]

That being said, can I resubmit your entries from last season if it comes to that? (I don't remember if either of you pulled that for IGCL 3, that would be the only thing stopping it

The thing about stopping for players to submit their new seasons is, while it may seem excessive in normal conditions, in the IGCL context it is only fair. I sped through three editions without a lot of insight into how long people wanted to wait, and now it's really kind of neutral at worst for me to wait for an established league to submit teams.

It's not because the two leagues in question are among the IGCL's top five, but it doesn't make a lot of sense for those leagues to mysteriously disappear for an edition and slip in the rankings this way. JMHO, of course, and all input from other players is welcome. Executive Council members are all equal here, and others have a voice too.

[Michael VII]

That being said, can I resubmit your entries from last season if it comes to that? (I don't remember if either of you pulled that for IGCL 3, that would be the only thing stopping it

The thing about stopping for players to submit their new seasons is, while it may seem excessive in normal conditions, in the IGCL context it is only fair. I sped through three editions without a lot of insight into how long people wanted to wait, and now it's really kind of neutral at worst for me to wait for an established league to submit teams.

It's not because the two leagues in question are among the IGCL's top five, but it doesn't make a lot of sense for those leagues to mysteriously disappear for an edition and slip in the rankings this way. JMHO, of course, and all input from other players is welcome. Executive Council members are all equal here, and others have a voice too.

Sure thing, tonight (NZT) I'm gonna spend time to put my league teams all on a spreadsheet, and then get to scorinating for my leagues, (some maybe tomorrow morning).

After that I'll probably come across a decent storyline (RP wise) for the pros and try see if I can get around to the college/high school ideas I have.

[Ko-oren]

I think I've got to say something here. I know ALS is high above everything else in the rankings, and writes solid RPs, but even though I'm the second league of the ranking, three out of my four teams (!) have been eliminated just for being in the same group as an ALS team. My fourth team was also eliminated, by the way. Now we have the situation that ALS still has four teams in the second round, and I wouldn't be surprised that ALS will have four teams in the semis. It might be random numbers messing with me, but I feel like we need some changes in the rankings/way rankings are calculated/importance of rankings in scorination.

I'm not angry or anything, and you're doing a great job organizing and scorinating, so please don't take this the wrong way.

[Darmen]

I don't think the problem lies in the rankings. I do however feel that the problem lies in the format of the competition. Going from the Group Stage straight to the Quarterfinals, advancing only the winners of the eight groups, ends many teams seasons short. Advancing the top two from each group to the Round of 16 and then the Quarterfinals not only expands the field that has a potential chance to win the title, but it also increases the possibility of an upset. Just my two cents.

[The Fanboyists]

Agreed. Not that I'm complaining about having 50% of the quarterfinals slots, but...I'm not that good. Ko-Oren RP'ed more than I did. I dunno if it's in the rankings, or if a simple fix can be affected by expanding the number of qualifying teams from the group stage in future editions, but we should probably look into how we can correct this. I like dominating as much as the next person, but this is sort of ridiculous.

I am not, however, complaining about the scorination or the actual running of the tournament. Thank you, FSC, for the good job you're doing. But, as Ko-Oren and Darmen have pointed out, this is something we may want to think about between the end of IGCL 4 and the beginning of IGCL 5.

[International Gridiron Champions League]

Two OOC announcements.

1. Sorry the quarterfinal cutoff did not come last night. I was about to cut it off this morning, and even scorinated the round, before I saw the discussion here. Again, all apologies for this inconvenience (though it is apparently the smaller of the two). There is no excuse per se; merely by way of explanation, I had some chronic symptoms come back with a fury throughout the day and could only get my errands done at night, when I otherwise would have been scorinating IGCL. That being said...

2. When I calculated the number of games in the format, it felt like having 16 teams advance could lead to an excessive number of games for realism's sake. I know that there are at least two camps here and I don't intend to reinvoke the old debate as such, but I worried that I had pushed too much reality-bending on everyone and that using an Olympics-like group stage for such a brutal sport would be perhaps more palatable for everyone. Was I ever wrong

Indeed, Ko-Oren had a higher RP bonus than ALS.

I'm sorry I caused some grief with this format. In attempting to remedy it, I feel I should keep my title in mind: Acting Delegate of the Executive Council, merely a vessel for the EC's opinions, not President or Chair of the IGCL; I don't call all the shots, I just make sure the trains run on time.

In light of how ridiculous the seeding has gotten, and considering the unanimous opinion against it within the Executive Council, I felt it was most appropriate to execute that opinion now instead of waiting for IGCL 5 to correct a mistake that would be baked into the rankings by then. So, all second-place teams will be admitted to the knockout stage now, which will begin with the Octofinal Round. To get things moving, I will scorinate the Octofinals shortly, delaying the process of counting ALS's last RP (the only RP of this round) until the real Quarterfinals, since other players did not know they would be facing ALS in this round. Seeding will be World Cup style: A2 vs B1, etc.

I hope that makes sense; if anyone has any questions, comments, or critiques, please do not hesitate to share them here or by telegram to International Gridiron Champions League.

[Free South Califas]

A third party is needed to scorinate the Compton (FSC) game in the quarterfinals. Anyone who is not me or Sicoutimont, please volunteer by telegram to International Gridiron Champions League or in this thread. Thanks in advance

[International Gridiron Champions League]

Anarchies and gentlestates,

We have our Solidarity Bowl IV champion. (OOC: It has been edited into the semifinal post, since there were no new RPs.)

snip

Thanks for playing, everyone, and feel free to discuss potential changes as we move forward toward IGCL 5. If possible, I will try to synthesize the opinions here into at least one proposal that can be voted on. Or perhaps we will reach consensus on some solution?

One change I have considered proposing would be to prevent any two teams from playing each other twice in one IGCL. The League welcomes all comments, counterproposals, other suggestions, etc.

There are other things we might want to hammer out too, like the structure of group stages. I've thought about going with three-team groups in the future; would this be helpful?

Again, your opinions on these and any other issues are welcome

[Ko-oren]

I still don't know how I feel about being able to RP between match days. On the one hand, it rewards active nations, but on the other hand I feel that it gives an unfair advantage as well. I guess I'm just used to more or less 'random' IGCLs, CCs, BCCCs, etc. I think RPing between match days can stay, but maybe less opportunities to do so. For example, once after the group stage, and then every round or every two rounds in the knock-out phase. But that's just my idea

I think you should keep to a group structure that always has an even number of teams advancing to the knock-out rounds, depending on the number of sign ups. I like the idea of a three-team-group-structure, but I think you should just go for whatever format works for that number of teams.

The 'don't play each other twice' rule needs to be reformulated, because otherwise we might not get a final (two teams from the same group that meet again in the final, that is). I like this rule a lot already =D

[Osarius]

The 'don't play each other twice' rule needs to be reformulated, because otherwise we might not get a final (two teams from the same group that meet again in the final, that is). I like this rule a lot already =D

I assume it wouldn't apply after a certain stage. Kind of like how the UEFA Champions League keeps teams from the same nation apart until the quarter finals.

[Free South Califas]

I still don't know how I feel about being able to RP between match days. On the one hand, it rewards active nations, but on the other hand I feel that it gives an unfair advantage as well. I guess I'm just used to more or less 'random' IGCLs, CCs, BCCCs, etc. I think RPing between match days can stay, but maybe less opportunities to do so. For example, once after the group stage, and then every round or every two rounds in the knock-out phase. But that's just my idea

Duly noted. I had similar feelings as it played out; that it was fun but that I might be overdoing it.

The 'don't play each other twice' rule needs to be reformulated, because otherwise we might not get a final (two teams from the same group that meet again in the final, that is). I like this rule a lot already =D

I suppose "where possible" or "where feasible" would have to be added, then, or a hard limit like Osarius mentioned. Good call.

The 'don't play each other twice' rule needs to be reformulated, because otherwise we might not get a final (two teams from the same group that meet again in the final, that is). I like this rule a lot already =D

I assume it wouldn't apply after a certain stage. Kind of like how the UEFA Champions League keeps teams from the same nation apart until the quarter finals.

Which brings up the open question of, when should it stop applying? Should it always apply when feasible (I think it's safe to assume we all want a final), or should it stop before the semifinals, quarterfinals...? Thoughts?

My rationale behind proposing something that sounded so absolute was that, given how few games are played in gridiron and how intense they are, we might want to avoid calling a future team the world champions after they played the same club twice (other than the final). That is, it seems like the future champions should have proven themselves against as diverse a range of clubs as possible.

Don't get me wrong, the current champions should not be questioned, as they were the best team according to the current rules

In future, though, it's at least an arguable question. Again, all opinions are welcome