Cup of Harmony 51 Bid: Liventia/Civil Citizenry

[Civil Citizenry]

Liventia and Civil Citizenry
HOST BID FOR THE FIFTY-FIRST CUP OF HARMONY

Experience
Liventia has extensive hosting experience, spanning eight years.

WCC tournaments
Baptism of Fire 3 (pre WC16)
Cup of Harmony 12 (for WC20)
World Cup 22
World Cup 37
Baptism of Fire 26 (pre WC39)
World Cup 41
Cup of Harmony 34 (for WC42)
World Cup 46
Baptism of Fire 34 (pre WC47)

Non-WCC international tournaments
Field Hockey World Cup 6
Field Hockey World Cup 11
World Championship in Field Hockey 1
World Championship in Field Hockey 2
World Championship in Field Hockey 3
Cherry Cup 7
World Baseball Classic 6
World Baseball Classic 9

Multi-event/stage competitions
International University Challenge Championship 1–17
NationStates F1GP 4
World Grand Prix Championship 6
World Grand Prix Championship 7
World Grand Prix Championship 8
World Grand Prix Championship 10
Tour of Ad’ihan
International Cycling Championships 1
NIFT Orean Masters
Winter pentathlon demonstration events at the VI Winter Olympics
Ad’ihani Pentathlon World Series
I Winter Paralympics
VII Winter Olympics

Civil Citizenry has hosted a wide variety of events since joining the game in December 2010 (according to the Citiz calendar, thirteen years ago). The user behind the nation handled senior co-hosting duties for the 48th Cup of Harmony. He recently hosted the 21st Di Bradini Cup, otherwise known as the Under-21 World Cup. His resumé also includes three editions of the Water World Championships, a competition with several dozen events. Civil Citizenry has also hosted a International Basketball Championships, a World Lacrosse Championships, a Beach Cup, a World Junior Hockey Championships, the Cereal Bowl, and two conferences of the third NSCAA season. The nation has served as the World Assembly delegate for Rushmore, the largest sports-centered region, for nearly a year, and in that position has organized a complex qualification series for the Rushmore Geese’ team for the ongoing Atlantian Oceania vs. Rushmore challenge. Civil Citizenry also runs the International Tennis Association, and has organized the NS Sports Young Guns, the Next Generation Trophy, and most recently the Copa de las Islas.

Format
Our preferred range of teams will be 32 to 36. The minimum criteria for invitational consideration will be three satisfactory RPs and a roster. If more than 36 nations accomplish that much, we will devise a grading system to determine the best 36 RPing nations. If fewer than 32 meet the criteria, we will implement a secondary criteria system to make numbers. Puppets whose master nations are participating will not be allowed, unless in dire circumstances.

Given our preferred number of teams, there will be 8 to 9 groups of four. Teams will play a single round-robin, with the top two in each group advancing to the knockout stage. If there are nine groups, group winners and the top five second-place teams (based on the tiebreakers below) will automatically qualify for the knockouts, while the last four second-place teams will play two playoff games (one for each team) to determine the last two spots in the round of sixteen. From there, teams will play one match every other day on through the finals. The goal is to start the tournament when the World Cup proper starts, so the CoH and WC run side-by-side.

RP Bonus
Bonuses will be graded on a 1-3 KPB rank scale. Bonuses will be cumulative throughout the tournament, but will also degrade every two days to encourage consistent RPing from start to finish. We believe this has an advantage over a purely degrading bonus system as it would still afford some leeway for RL situations where RPing every day is impossible.

Scorination
The hosts will use the latest edition of xkoranate, with the SQIS formula, and a full range of style modifiers (+5 to -5).

Tiebreakers
-- Head-to-head points
-- Head-to-head goal difference
-- Goal difference
-- Head-to-head goals for (for ties involving more than two teams)
-- Head-to-head away goals (for all ties)
-- Goals for

[Liventia]

Confirming the bid and welcoming any questions.

[Mangolana]

By do you believe a degrading style is better than a culumitive style

[Liventia]

By do you believe a degrading style is better than a culumitive style

We don't favour a solely degrading or a solely cumulative RP bonus, so I wouldn't say we believe a degrading style is better than a cumulative one. It's the reason that both methods are being employed in our bid, as we believe this will better make use of the pros of both methods. The degrading system has pros that negate the cumulative system's cons, and vice-versa.

[Homelands our]

I don't like the fact that only one host could be in the WC proper. If CC is happy to let their co-host lose their WC proper berth, then they should be happy to lose theirs as well.

[Liventia]

I don't like the fact that only one host could be in the WC proper. If CC is happy to let their co-host lose their WC proper berth, then they should be happy to lose theirs as well.

I'm sorry, but that's making zero sense. It's a decision I've made as Liventia is unranked. Why should CC be needing to give up his place?

[Stachland]

I don't like the fact that only one host could be in the WC proper. If CC is happy to let their co-host lose their WC proper berth, then they should be happy to lose theirs as well.

I don't necessarily follow your logic. Traditionally, both co-hosts gain automatic entry into the World Cup. Liventia, feeling that such a berth would not be deserved, has been gracious in deciding to forego it because the nation is unranked. There is no reason for Civil Citizenry, a high-ranking squad, to do the same.

Personally, I very much like this bid. I like the use of xkoranate, and I like head-to-head being considered above goal differential. I trust in both hosts and their abilities to run the World Cup without incident.

[Krytenia]

Question for Liventia: what has made you decide to return to the World Cup fold? And as co-host, no less?

[Liventia]

Question for Liventia: what has made you decide to return to the World Cup fold? And as co-host, no less?

I expected this might come up. My primary reason for leaving in the first place was that there was a significant minority group who, in my opinion, was dragging the World Cup down and to a place I did not want to be a part of. The members of this minority have now left the World Cup scene, which paves the way for my return.

I also wished to return in time for World Cup 60, so although originally my plan was to return for two cups, I am seriously considering staying for a good while longer.

As for co-hosting, I don't believe it's healthy for the World Cup to have uncontested host bids, and I felt my experience as a host would be well served in aiding Civil Citizenry in challenging Vilita and Polar Islandstates for the right to host the upcoming Cup.

[Krytenia]

Question for Liventia: what has made you decide to return to the World Cup fold? And as co-host, no less?

I expected this might come up. My primary reason for leaving in the first place was that there was a significant minority group who, in my opinion, was dragging the World Cup down and to a place I did not want to be a part of. The members of this minority have now left the World Cup scene, which paves the way for my return.

I also wished to return in time for World Cup 60, so although originally my plan was to return for two cups, I am seriously considering staying for a good while longer.

As for co-hosting, I don't believe it's healthy for the World Cup to have uncontested host bids, and I felt my experience as a host would be well served in aiding Civil Citizenry in challenging Vilita and Polar Islandstates for the right to host the upcoming Cup.

Seems fair. I for one would not complain if Liventia did take an auto-spot - though obviously they'd have their work cut out in the Finals.

[Liventia]

Seems fair. I for one would not complain if Liventia did take an auto-spot - though obviously they'd have their work cut out in the Finals.

Another reason I would decline the automatic qualifying berth would be to build some kind of RP backstory in the qualifiers which I don't think would do quite as well if Liventia qualified automatically. But that's really secondary to the being unranked and all.

[The Babbage Islands]

I like what I see here. And I agree with Krytenia -- there is no reason that Liventia, if selected as co-host, should not receive the same qualifying spot as all other co-hosts.

The concession Newmanistan and I made in our WC 49 bid, where he was ranked outside the top 20 and I was in the 60s, was to take the pot for the draw that our post-qual ranks would ordinarily entitle us to instead of the customary pot one placement for hosts. I recommend something like that instead of yielding the slot.

Regardless of which existing bid wins, and assuming that one does, I look forward to TBI no longer being the most junior nation among WC hosts.

[Liventia]

The concession Newmanistan and I made in our WC 49 bid, where he was ranked outside the top 20 and I was in the 60s, was to take the pot for the draw that our post-qual ranks would ordinarily entitle us to instead of the customary pot one placement for hosts. I recommend something like that instead of yielding the slot.

This was what I did with Legalese when we cohosted WC37 as Ad’ihan and Novapsolu — we were both ranked lowly (in the 70s and 40s respectively) and both went into pot 4.

That said, I would like to re-affirm the decision to decline taking an automatic spot, and it's of my own choosing. It is a position I will only reconsider in light of massive opposition to it, of which so far little has come forward.

[Bears Armed]

Why not hold a play-off game between Liventia and Civil Citizenry to see who gets an automatic place? That way, if Liventia does beat the odds and get into the World Cup proper without having to go through the qualifiers then they'll have earned it...

[Liventia]

Why not hold a play-off game between Liventia and Civil Citizenry to see who gets an automatic place? That way, if Liventia does beat the odds and get into the World Cup proper without having to go through the qualifiers then they'll have earned it...

Certainly doable, but it's not something we're looking at at the moment. I stress that I personally would like to take part in qualifying; Civil Citizenry would have scorination duty over my group at all times.

[Eastfield Lodge]

Why not hold a play-off game between Liventia and Civil Citizenry to see who gets an automatic place? That way, if Liventia does beat the odds and get into the World Cup proper without having to go through the qualifiers then they'll have earned it...

Certainly doable, but it's not something we're looking at at the moment. I stress that I personally would like to take part in qualifying; Civil Citizenry would have scorination duty over my group at all times.

I assume that as you're taking part in qualifying, you will fall into the highest pot for unranked nations, correct?

[Civil Citizenry]

Certainly doable, but it's not something we're looking at at the moment. I stress that I personally would like to take part in qualifying; Civil Citizenry would have scorination duty over my group at all times.

I assume that as you're taking part in qualifying, you will fall into the highest pot for unranked nations, correct?

Yes, I think that's quite fair.

Also, I fail to see the logic for my not receiving an automatic berth to the proper. Unless someone can prove me wrong, every co-host, ever since qualifying was first implemented, has gotten an automatic berth to the finals. The fact that Liventia is opting not to do so is very courteous of him. However, that shouldn't stop me from receiving the same reward for hosting an entire World Cup that every other host has the ability to receive.

I am pleased to be working with a veteran host like Liventia. Four World Cups, an Olympics, myriad other stuff, it's pretty ridiculous. Between the two of us, we certainly have a fair bit of experience, so I hope we'll get to take that to the next World Cup!

[Polar Islandstates]

I can't say I'm convinced by your way of getting the thirty-first qualifier in a 30 group format. Surely waiting for the additional six signups and having a thirty first group?

That said, I welcome the competition. Nobody should get elected uncontested for this kind of thing, and I for one am glad there's a rival bid. Let the people decide what's best for the tournament.

[Civil Citizenry]

I can't say I'm convinced by your way of getting the thirty-first qualifier in a 30 group format. Surely waiting for the additional six signups and having a thirty first group?

The goal is to make everyone feel like they're still contesting for a spot in the proper, even if they're not winning their groups. The fact that you can get second place in your group and still have a shot at the proper is much more enticing then having a top team run away with the group and the rest of the teams waiting around for WC 60. If getting second place is still a viable option for qualification, that means 30-45 teams who aren't winning their groups are still willing to RP and battle for that last spot. If there's a thirty-first group instead, then that extra option isn't there, and you have to win your group to qualify. But the top teams in each pot will start out with major rank advantages, and fewer matchdays (due to smaller groups) means fewer opportunities for low-ranked teams to boost up and challenge the top teams to win the group.

In short, Group 31 would be a qualification opportunity for 1-2 teams, but leaving the spot open for a second-place team is an opportunity for 30+ teams. We are proposing a real-life standard in the tiebreaker system, so it's not like we didn't think this through or it just popped up out of nowhere.

[The Icemark]

I really like the look of this bid. It would really add an air of uncertainty and good RP possibilities for LIventia not making it to the WC proper for sure.
Two strong bids so far. This one is a bit more unique than the other though.

[Camwood]

I am ineligible to vote for this upcoming World Cup cycle. However, my support/lobbying powers are in favor of this Bid.

[Vilita]

I can't say I'm convinced by your way of getting the thirty-first qualifier in a 30 group format. Surely waiting for the additional six signups and having a thirty first group?

The goal is to make everyone feel like they're still contesting for a spot in the proper, even if they're not winning their groups. The fact that you can get second place in your group and still have a shot at the proper is much more enticing then having a top team run away with the group and the rest of the teams waiting around for WC 60. If getting second place is still a viable option for qualification, that means 30-45 teams who aren't winning their groups are still willing to RP and battle for that last spot.

Not really, if only 1 team in 30 gets in, they will know long before the last matchday if they are still in contention or not by looking at the big table, Its not like having a playoff where all the second place teams actually are in contention for a place. The reality is by the last matchday there probably won't be more than 5 teams with a shot at it, if it hasn't already been wrapped up - no different than in a regular qualifying group.

Its not a bad idea, but its not going to be contested by 45 teams

[Civil Citizenry]

The goal is to make everyone feel like they're still contesting for a spot in the proper, even if they're not winning their groups. The fact that you can get second place in your group and still have a shot at the proper is much more enticing then having a top team run away with the group and the rest of the teams waiting around for WC 60. If getting second place is still a viable option for qualification, that means 30-45 teams who aren't winning their groups are still willing to RP and battle for that last spot.

Not really, if only 1 team in 30 gets in, they will know long before the last matchday if they are still in contention or not by looking at the big table, Its not like having a playoff where all the second place teams actually are in contention for a place. The reality is by the last matchday there probably won't be more than 5 teams with a shot at it, if it hasn't already been wrapped up - no different than in a regular qualifying group.

Its not a bad idea, but its not going to be contested by 45 teams

My point is that comparing our proposed system to PIS's proposed system of a thirty-first group, our system is better because at the outset of the competition, there are many more teams with a potential shot at taking the extra spot than if there were a 5-6 team extra group, where only 5-6 teams have a shot at spot #31. By the last matchday, clearly there won't be 45 teams who could still win the final spot. But in contrast with PIS's suggestion, there are a ton more nations with the opportunity to win that spot when play starts, under our system. That was the argument I was trying to make. I hope I've alleviated concerns about the viability of our system instead of just creating Group 31.

[Starblaydia]

Question for Liventia: what has made you decide to return to the World Cup fold? And as co-host, no less?

My primary reason for leaving in the first place was that there was a significant minority group who, in my opinion, was dragging the World Cup down and to a place I did not want to be a part of.

I knew you were just waiting for me to quit

[Civil Citizenry]

Liventia and I are officially bidding to host the upcoming Cup of Harmony. The opening post has been updated with new details to reflect that we are now bidding for the CoH, rather than the WC. We invite new questions and comments.