Community Football development thread

[Karditan]

What if the main method of scoring was punting the ball? It's easier than getting it elevated off the ground, but harder to aim than just a throw. Seems like a good middle ground.

[The Kiaser Colonies]

is this still happening?

[Carmadin]

is this still happening?

Yes, yes it is. I was hoping for some more discussion on scoring, as that would be an integral part of the game. I personally like kicking the ball (of a shape yet to be determined...) through goalposts. Simple, but hard to do. I think there could be at least one other way to score though, that's why I was trying to wait for more discussion.

[Karditan]

If we're still talking about the ball shape, why not an oblate (flattened) spheroid? Play will work almost exactly the same (only slightly altered aerodynamics), and we'll still be able to say we're not using a spherical ball. That's all I think anyone wants, so it's a good compromise.

[Carmadin]

If we're still talking about the ball shape, why not an oblate (flattened) spheroid? Play will work almost exactly the same (only slightly altered aerodynamics), and we'll still be able to say we're not using a spherical ball. That's all I think anyone wants, so it's a good compromise.

Okay

[Bears Armed]

If we're still talking about the ball shape, why not an oblate (flattened) spheroid? Play will work almost exactly the same (only slightly altered aerodynamics), and we'll still be able to say we're not using a spherical ball. That's all I think anyone wants, so it's a good compromise.

Okay

In that case, how about an 'oblate' field rather than a fully circular one as well?


Hr'rmm, the Earth is an oblate spheroid... 'Earth-Ball'?

^_^

[Karditan]

-snip-

Hr'rmm, the Earth is an oblate spheroid... 'Earth-Ball'?

^_^

Heh, that's actually where I got the idea for the oblate spheroid xD

[Radiatia]

This sounds really cool. Let me know when/if this takes off.

[Carmadin]

I hate to do this, but Bump

[The Kiaser Colonies]

I think if people were more filled in on developments in rules in the op past ball usage. Include popping and circular pitch, most were in favour of that

[Carmadin]

I've edited it in
realized i should be keeping up on that....

[Wight]

I think if this development project is to keep it's momentum the rules need to be much more clearly defined, so perhaps it is time to make decisions, rather than just "the sport will use some kind of ball" - what kind of ball? Explain popping? How big is the pitch, how many players per team...

OK you might not be all the way there yet, but you should be aiming for something like TBI's definition of Babbage Rules. At least expand what rules you've agreed so far so they have more detail. I think Carmadin should maybe think about putting issues to the vote, perhaps assembling a development committee made up of the people in the thread who contributed and every couple of days take a vote on an aspect of the rules. Otherwise I can see it drifting - strong focused leadership required, Carmadin!

Once you are up to a level of definition like Babbage Rules, you can start to work out formulae for scorinators, and RP a few exhibition games. But right now it needs better definition.

[Mapletish]

I think if this development project is to keep it's momentum the rules need to be much more clearly defined, so perhaps it is time to make decisions, rather than just "the sport will use some kind of ball" - what kind of ball? Explain popping? How big is the pitch, how many players per team...

OK you might not be all the way there yet, but you should be aiming for something like TBI's definition of Babbage Rules. At least expand what rules you've agreed so far so they have more detail. I think Carmadin should maybe think about putting issues to the vote, perhaps assembling a development committee made up of the people in the thread who contributed and every couple of days take a vote on an aspect of the rules. Otherwise I can see it drifting - strong focused leadership required, Carmadin!

Once you are up to a level of definition like Babbage Rules, you can start to work out formulae for scorinators, and RP a few exhibition games. But right now it needs better definition.

For I agree with Wight's point !!

[Carmadin]

I think if this development project is to keep it's momentum the rules need to be much more clearly defined, so perhaps it is time to make decisions, rather than just "the sport will use some kind of ball" - what kind of ball? Explain popping? How big is the pitch, how many players per team...

OK you might not be all the way there yet, but you should be aiming for something like TBI's definition of Babbage Rules. At least expand what rules you've agreed so far so they have more detail. I think Carmadin should maybe think about putting issues to the vote, perhaps assembling a development committee made up of the people in the thread who contributed and every couple of days take a vote on an aspect of the rules. Otherwise I can see it drifting - strong focused leadership required, Carmadin!

Once you are up to a level of definition like Babbage Rules, you can start to work out formulae for scorinators, and RP a few exhibition games. But right now it needs better definition.

*is endowed with new spirit by Wights pep talk*

Okay, Ill update the spoiler tags when I actually have a computer.
How many people are on a team? I say 11, but we can vote on that next

for now, let's decide how points are scored
Post expressing whether you would like:

A goal with a goalie
A goal without a goalie
Uprights
A "try"equivalent

or any combinations of the above

[Mapletish]

Err..? Could you be more specific..?

[Eastfield Lodge]

I think if this development project is to keep it's momentum the rules need to be much more clearly defined, so perhaps it is time to make decisions, rather than just "the sport will use some kind of ball" - what kind of ball? Explain popping? How big is the pitch, how many players per team...

OK you might not be all the way there yet, but you should be aiming for something like TBI's definition of Babbage Rules. At least expand what rules you've agreed so far so they have more detail. I think Carmadin should maybe think about putting issues to the vote, perhaps assembling a development committee made up of the people in the thread who contributed and every couple of days take a vote on an aspect of the rules. Otherwise I can see it drifting - strong focused leadership required, Carmadin!

Once you are up to a level of definition like Babbage Rules, you can start to work out formulae for scorinators, and RP a few exhibition games. But right now it needs better definition.

*is endowed with new spirit by Wights pep talk*

Okay, Ill update the spoiler tags when I actually have a computer.
How many people are on a team? I say 11, but we can vote on that next

for now, let's decide how points are scored
Post expressing whether you would like:

A goal with a goalie
A goal without a goalie
Uprights
A "try"equivalent

or any combinations of the above

Rugby posts, but to score you have to throw the ball over the horizontal bar and then catch it on the other side (not necessarily the same person catching it). And then there is a chance of scoring a bonus underneath the horizontal bar and between the posts with a penalty-type shot, or a free kick or something.

[Carmadin]

Seems that we need a bit more discussion on scoring, an apology from Carmadin for not being on top of things here, and a great big BUMP to the top

[The Kiaser Colonies]

Must save, currently non-existent unnamed sport.

My thoughts:
No goalies
Rugby/gaelic football or AFL posts
Zone based score values
kicking or regulated throwing to score
No need to catch on other side

I also have an idea on team layout but would be based on a couple other rules that would be best left until we finish with scoring. My method would have 11 players on a team. Will explain when asked about it (preferably over TG unless Carmadin wants it here or scoring is decided upon. Otherwise it's best not throw other things in and leave us with too much to decide on.

[Baffin Island]

What size will the circular pitch be? This will influence the scoring, the best team size, and the ease of adaptability by varied cultures. Anything much bigger than 70-75m will create issues with using many existing stadia.

Scoring goals by kicking and perhaps hand-passing over uprights might be best, eliminating the need for a dedicated keeper as previously mentioned. Also, the person who suggested a crossbar 5m up had a good suggestion as it will reduce somewhat the ease of scoring.

[The Babbage Islands]

I don't want to see this effort die. Let's start from what we have, see if we can flesh it out, and I'll volunteer to write a formal description as things evolve.

---

The sport of {insert name here} is a field game played by two teams of {7/8/9/10/11/12?} players on a circular pitch of {insert diameter} metres in diameter.

The object for each team is to score goals by kicking {or hand-passing? or throwing?} a rugby football between two uprights {insert width} metres apart and above a crossbar between the uprights 5 m above the ground. The goals are set diametrically opposite one another, with each team defending one goal and attempting to score through the other.

Players may freely run with, kick, hand-pass, or throw the ball. However, except in the act of relinquishing possession a player with possession of the ball must maintain it in both hands, in front of the body, and not touching any other part of the body. The principal means of challenging for such a held ball is "popping", where a defender attempts to strike the ball out of the attacker's hands.

---

Does this look like a fair beginning? Have I missed (or misunderstood) anything thus far?

One suggestion I have for scoring is derived from Finnish baseball, which is supported by xkoranate in the latest version. It doesn't affect the scoring of goals but does affect results. The idea is to award a match point to the team scoring the most goals in each of three periods; no point is awarded if the score is tied for a period. Should the match score be 1-1 or 0-0 after the third period, a golden-goal "fourth period" of indefinite length is played to determine a winner. League standings can be determined by wins, by periods won, or by periods won minus periods lost. This would provide a unique scoring twist and sidestep questions of just how many goals would be likely to be scored in x minutes by y players on a z-size pitch using untested rules. I can adapt the needed xkoranate file for the six possible results (3-0, 2-1, 2-0, 1-0, 2-1 (gg), and 1-0 (gg)) in minutes.

[Carmadin]

*gives TBI a hug*

That's awesome! I have been kind of losing my drive for this (I recently sprained my knee and got a concussion ), but now I'm excited once more

I do so love the accurate description of popping

Thank you TBI!
I will try to figure some things out, and I think that the only things left to do is to finalize the exact method of scoring, and figure out just how the ball will be passed.
Then, players on a team and scoring system (personally, I don't like the finnish baseball syestm, as it allows a team to score more goals, but still lose a match)

[The Kiaser Colonies]

I don't want to see this effort die. Let's start from what we have, see if we can flesh it out, and I'll volunteer to write a formal description as things evolve.

---

The sport of {insert name here} is a field game played by two teams of {7/8/9/10/11/12?} players on a circular pitch of {insert diameter} metres in diameter.

The object for each team is to score goals by kicking {or hand-passing? or throwing?} a rugby football between two uprights {insert width} metres apart and above a crossbar between the uprights 5 m above the ground. The goals are set diametrically opposite one another, with each team defending one goal and attempting to score through the other.

Players may freely run with, kick, hand-pass, or throw the ball. However, except in the act of relinquishing possession a player with possession of the ball must maintain it in both hands, in front of the body, and not touching any other part of the body. The principal means of challenging for such a held ball is "popping", where a defender attempts to strike the ball out of the attacker's hands.

---

Does this look like a fair beginning? Have I missed (or misunderstood) anything thus far?

One suggestion I have for scoring is derived from Finnish baseball, which is supported by xkoranate in the latest version. It doesn't affect the scoring of goals but does affect results. The idea is to award a match point to the team scoring the most goals in each of three periods; no point is awarded if the score is tied for a period. Should the match score be 1-1 or 0-0 after the third period, a golden-goal "fourth period" of indefinite length is played to determine a winner. League standings can be determined by wins, by periods won, or by periods won minus periods lost. This would provide a unique scoring twist and sidestep questions of just how many goals would be likely to be scored in x minutes by y players on a z-size pitch using untested rules. I can adapt the needed xkoranate file for the six possible results (3-0, 2-1, 2-0, 1-0, 2-1 (gg), and 1-0 (gg)) in minutes.

Thank god for TBI.

[The Babbage Islands]

Random thoughts:

I had an idea about balls going into touch/out-of-bounds. On a circular pitch, it would be possible to restart play from a centre circle (say 3 m?) for all such situations. This would also be the case after goals.

Goal posts should be at least 8 m tall with the crossbar at 5 m up. The distance between them could be anything from 5.6 m (rugby union) to 6.5 m (Gaelic) to a bit over 7 m (gridiron at low levels).

Let's point toward 70 - 75 m as the range of permitted diameter for the pitch. This suggests the possibility of a smaller squad. say seven to nine.

How about Popball as a possible name? This might work even better if fist striking/handballing/handpassing takes on a bigger role, either in scoring or as a replacement for throwing.

[Carmadin]

Random thoughts:

I had an idea about balls going into touch/out-of-bounds. On a circular pitch, it would be possible to restart play from a centre circle (say 3 m?) for all such situations. This would also be the case after goals.

Goal posts should be at least 8 m tall with the crossbar at 5 m up. The distance between them could be anything from 5.6 m (rugby union) to 6.5 m (Gaelic) to a bit over 7 m (gridiron at low levels).

Let's point toward 70 - 75 m as the range of permitted diameter for the pitch. This suggests the possibility of a smaller squad. say seven to nine.

How about Popball as a possible name? This might work even better if fist striking/handballing/handpassing takes on a bigger role, either in scoring or as a replacement for throwing.

I do like the idea of a restart from a central place, perhaps in the form of a Basketball-like "tip-off", with a player from each team jumping and trying to hit the ball back to their own team?
I was actually assuming 8-a-team, and the 70-75m diameter will work fine for play in existing stadia.
I was assuming the name would be Community Football or Community Rules, in my mind, "Popball" sounds a bit corny and non-authentic, but that's just my opinion.

I can't thank you enough for getting this back on track!!

[Wight]

If the field of play is circular, the idea of forward and reverse play is a little moot, even though goal posts are opposite each other. A different way to delineate zones might be concentric circles - I don't know how that might affect rulings, but perhaps there are limits of some description. For example, perhaps you can't pass within a zone, or, you can only pass within a zone, and to cross zones you have to run with the ball, or kick it maybe. But before that is sorted, can I propose concentric circles for pitch markings?