Nationstates Olympic Games Discussion Thread

[Ethane]

This is a big commitment, which takes hours out of every day for the duration of it, plus preparation time.

Commerce Heights took this on in good faith, because no one else exactly said anything, and the committee had to do something to make sure the Olympics didn't fall apart.

Until you tell me that you are willing to be the host that steps in at the last moment, after someone else pulls out, and hosts the olympics, a difficult thing to do, which previously CH wasn't going to do, then you are in no place to lecture anyone else on how they should run an olympics, or complain about them.

Same for Saintland. You lost the right to complain when you pulled out of hosting the olympics. If that never happened, we would not be in this mess.

I would have been capable of hosting it, however I wouldn't have wanted to do it.

Were all other options exhausted before CH took over hosting duties? Nobody else who physically could have done it? Because the Olympics needs to be more than scorenation, a certain amount of rp needs to go into it, which we didn't see this year.

RP? I saw loads of roleplay from nations. Nothing else was needed from a decent olympics?!

I don't actually know what you're asking for here?

Also, if other people were willing to do it, whats to say they wouldn't have removed some events as well?

[CoraSpia]

Timing is unimportant. What is important is that we have a host who is dedecated to the thread, and who is willing to respond to issues which are rped out in the thread. We did not have that this year.

I feel that you overestimate the number of people prepared to host an Olympics in a single year. That number is usually around the one/two mark and sadly this year it just wasn't possible for whatever reason. CH decided to take the tournament on himself, which was a monumental task, and then removed some of the fluff around the outside - made it easier to step in as a host.

If we were to open rebidding, have you thought about the sports that require precise timing of events or games and as such need to Olympics to happen at this time? What about the fact that hosting the Summer Olympics would be ironic? What about the fact that there isn't anybody else who has offered?

And what if the new host was to want different sports? That would create a problem with another of the amendments.

So overall, I think you should back down and think the corner you would be backing yourself or someone into, get off your high horse and stop being so demanding.

The last summer Olympics weren't in the summer, if I recall correctly. And the world didn't collapse. I'd be more than happy with a 3-month wait if it meant we got a host who wanted to host.

[CoraSpia]

I would have been capable of hosting it, however I wouldn't have wanted to do it.

Were all other options exhausted before CH took over hosting duties? Nobody else who physically could have done it? Because the Olympics needs to be more than scorenation, a certain amount of rp needs to go into it, which we didn't see this year.

RP? I saw loads of roleplay from nations. Nothing else was needed from a decent olympics?!

I don't actually know what you're asking for here?

Also, if other people were willing to do it, whats to say they wouldn't have removed some events as well?

I mean rp from the host.

[Ethane]

RP? I saw loads of roleplay from nations. Nothing else was needed from a decent olympics?!

I don't actually know what you're asking for here?

Also, if other people were willing to do it, whats to say they wouldn't have removed some events as well?

I mean rp from the host.

Time?! What happened to RL before NS? You can't expect them to, after scoring a load of results, slog out a long rp, not for their own enjoyment, but to satisfy the needs of those competing?

The world has something to tell you and you're not going to like it: It's not all about you.

I feel that you overestimate the number of people prepared to host an Olympics in a single year. That number is usually around the one/two mark and sadly this year it just wasn't possible for whatever reason. CH decided to take the tournament on himself, which was a monumental task, and then removed some of the fluff around the outside - made it easier to step in as a host.

If we were to open rebidding, have you thought about the sports that require precise timing of events or games and as such need to Olympics to happen at this time? What about the fact that hosting the Summer Olympics would be ironic? What about the fact that there isn't anybody else who has offered?

And what if the new host was to want different sports? That would create a problem with another of the amendments.

So overall, I think you should back down and think the corner you would be backing yourself or someone into, get off your high horse and stop being so demanding.

The last summer Olympics weren't in the summer, if I recall correctly. And the world didn't collapse. I'd be more than happy with a 3-month wait if it meant we got a host who wanted to host.

We wanted it to coincide roughly with the RL Olympics, so that we got more participants, because of the buzz from the olympics.

[Ilyseum]

And what if the new host was to want different sports? That would create a problem with another of the amendments.

In fact, under Proposal I, the old host's bid is declared null and void so a new host proposing different demonstration events would not conflict with Proposal II. What Proposal II does is prevent an elected host (or a replacement host chosen in the event that the elected host withdraws after the start of an Olympics) from removing events that were specified in a bid.

---

I should also note the following from the Charter:

3. Amendments
Any member of the Olympic Council may propose an amendment to this Charter. If two other members endorse the proposal, the President shall hold a vote of the Olympic Council. If a majority of voting members are in favor of the amendment, it is put into effect immediately, except that the amendment shall not apply to any vote or Olympic Games ongoing at the time the amendment is passed.

It seems that there are already "two other members" endorsing Proposal 3 and there is currently one other member who has endorsed Proposals 1 and 2, so Proposal 3 (as it currently stands) is going to vote and the other two proposals only need one more endorser to go to vote themselves.

[Ceni]

I would have been capable of hosting it, however I wouldn't have wanted to do it.

Umm... Sorry to burst your bubble, but HELL NO you are not even reasonably qualified to host an Olympics.

Were all other options exhausted before CH took over hosting duties? Nobody else who physically could have done it? Because the Olympics needs to be more than scorenation, a certain amount of rp needs to go into it, which we didn't see this year.

Have you ever seen a host RP for the Olympics? They can't really, because they have so much on their plate to scorinate. It's not an easy task, something you evidently don't know. Speaking from experience, just half of the scorination took around 3 hours per day, plus massive amounts of time to upload the host files. Hell, it negatively impacted my family relationships for about a month - especially considering I was spending 4 hours a day on the computer uploading files during Thanksgiving.

And who else is qualified to host a Olympics? Liventia, Electrum, myself, for one, but it couldn't have worked out for me, considering I didn't have access at the time, and when CH offered to host the Olympics, both Liventia and Electrum said they'd rather let him do it! The pool of qualified bidders is very small, and all of us decided to let CH have it. (And there's Free Republics, but he pulled out - why would we be considering him?)

XI Olympiad - 567 RP posts
X Olympiad - 348 RP posts

In fact, CH's Olympics had more RP than mine and Electrum's! So we did actually see RP in it this year, thanks.

[CoraSpia]

I mean rp from the host.

Time?! What happened to RL before NS? You can't expect them to, after scoring a load of results, slog out a long rp, not for their own enjoyment, but to satisfy the needs of those competing?

The world has something to tell you and you're not going to like it: It's not all about you.

The last summer Olympics weren't in the summer, if I recall correctly. And the world didn't collapse. I'd be more than happy with a 3-month wait if it meant we got a host who wanted to host.

We wanted it to coincide roughly with the RL Olympics, so that we got more participants, because of the buzz from the olympics.

Were previous Olympic hosts, who managed to rp, the exception rather than the rule?

Because I'm not sure that I'd have gotten a response had I rped out my athletes committing mass suicide.

[Ceni]

The last summer Olympics weren't in the summer, if I recall correctly. And the world didn't collapse. I'd be more than happy with a 3-month wait if it meant we got a host who wanted to host.

Like Commerce Heights, for instance?

Were previous Olympic hosts, who managed to rp, the exception rather than the rule?

Hell yes.

[Hannasea]

The answer is probably "Yes", but I just wanted to check: is Ilyseum actually a valid member of the Olympic Council?

They pulled out of participation in the "most recent completed" Olympics, and their athletes being left in was simply a scorinator artifact that they said they would not be recognizing.

If 1.1.1 applies to anyone who competed in either Summer or Winter Olympics (I've never been entirely sure of the interpretation), then obviously this doesn't apply and they've retained their membership.

[CoraSpia]

The last summer Olympics weren't in the summer, if I recall correctly. And the world didn't collapse. I'd be more than happy with a 3-month wait if it meant we got a host who wanted to host.

Like Commerce Heights, for instance?

If CH would be happy to state that he would have put in a hosting bid should it be re-opened, I would drop my concerns, naturally regarding the choice of host.

[CoraSpia]

The answer is probably "Yes", but I just wanted to check: is Ilyseum actually a valid member of the Olympic Council?

They pulled out of participation in the "most recent completed" Olympics, and their athletes being left in was simply a scorinator artifact that they said they would not be recognizing.

If 1.1.1 applies to anyone who competed in either Summer or Winter Olympics (I've never been entirely sure of the interpretation), then obviously this doesn't apply and they've retained their membership.

East Saintland certainly would be, regardless.

[Hannasea]

East Saintland certainly would be, regardless.

Ah, you're right - thanks.

[Britonisea]

Don't even understand why hosts have to host all these events, anyway. The things you get out of hosting a summer Olympics isn't good - as described by Ceni. Sad.

[New West Guiana]

Like Commerce Heights, for instance?

If CH would be happy to state that he would have put in a hosting bid should it be re-opened, I would drop my concerns, naturally regarding the choice of host.

There are two people on this forum you should never have any concerns about their ability to host anything, those people are CH and Liventia, Liventia has done it all, CH many, many olympics. They are the only two that would have pulled off hosting the Olympics on such short notice with so few hiccups.

The things you get out of hosting a summer Olympics isn't good

Hosts get one thing, respect, ever notice no one ever questions previous hosts and their ability to do things?

[New West Guiana]

And who else is qualified to host a Olympics? Liventia, Electrum, myself, for one,

That's a stretch, there are many who have been here for years that are qualified but have many times stated they would never host the Olympics or even bid for that matter. Though that has always been the case for the summer, for those people.

I don't care if i have the same qualifications fuck no, would I ever voluntarily take on that stress

[Gregoryisgodistan]

Sorry, Coraspia, you're not remotely qualified to host an Olympics. Have you ever even hosted anything? Do you even know how to use a scorinator? I doubt it. Hell, I'm not qualified to host the Olympics. And I have far more experience than you. So quit claiming you are.

As for the job CH did, it's really the best he could have done given the circumstances. It was very last minute, and while I'm not entirely satisfied with the qualification being thrown in last minute, or a handful of delays during the Games, or with the Gregoryisgodistani athletes not being entered under their full names, there were extenuating circumstances, so all is forgiven. And it's worth noting that I verified with Ilyseum that our athletes would be allowed to enter under their full names with proper formatting, and have done the same with prior hosts, but neglected to do the same with CH, which is my fault. It's possible he would have said no anyway, but given our names are rather unusual, what CH did was perfectly reasonable in light of the circumstances.

In short, if CH had been the host from the start and had months to prepare, but there were still these issues, I would not be OK with that. But he had a much shorter time to prepare than a normal host would, and he really made the best of a bad situation.

[CoraSpia]

Sorry, Coraspia, you're not remotely qualified to host an Olympics. Have you ever even hosted anything? Do you even know how to use a scorinator? I doubt it. Hell, I'm not qualified to host the Olympics. And I have far more experience than you. So quit claiming you are.

As for the job CH did, it's really the best he could have done given the circumstances. It was very last minute, and while I'm not entirely satisfied with the qualification being thrown in last minute, or a handful of delays during the Games, or with the Gregoryisgodistani athletes not being entered under their full names, there were extenuating circumstances, so all is forgiven. And it's worth noting that I verified with Ilyseum that our athletes would be allowed to enter under their full names with proper formatting, and have done the same with prior hosts, but neglected to do the same with CH, which is my fault. It's possible he would have said no anyway, but given our names are rather unusual, what CH did was perfectly reasonable in light of the circumstances.

In short, if CH had been the host from the start and had months to prepare, but there were still these issues, I would not be OK with that. But he had a much shorter time to prepare than a normal host would, and he really made the best of a bad situation.

I'm not blaming CH, I'm blaming the time limitations. Of course, it would be nice for the rl and ns Olympics to run at the same time, however that shouldn't have been a priority.

[Britonisea]

If CH would be happy to state that he would have put in a hosting bid should it be re-opened, I would drop my concerns, naturally regarding the choice of host.

There are two people on this forum you should never have any concerns about their ability to host anything, those people are CH and Liventia, Liventia has done it all, CH many, many olympics. They are the only two that would have pulled off hosting the Olympics on such short notice with so few hiccups.

The things you get out of hosting a summer Olympics isn't good

Hosts get one thing, respect, ever notice no one ever questions previous hosts and their ability to do things?

Oh, that means that the majority of us won't get that respect then, which is sad. Oh well, life goes on.

[Liventia]

It might just be the fact I've had seven beers, but I really don't see any issues with Saintland's proposed amendments. While I'm not going to second them formally until I'm fully sober, I'm not overly concerned about the furore surrounding them.

That said, as Ceni and others have pointed out, Coraspia, you really do need to stop thinking you are somehow able to pull off an Olympics with no prior hosting experience. I know it's not the nicest thing to hear – I bid for every World Cup from 7 through 21 before hosting WC22 – but some things really do take time. I'm sure even Saintland, who you no doubt consider closest to your position, would agree.

Were previous Olympic hosts, who managed to rp, the exception rather than the rule?

As someone who hosted three Games, yes, most definitely yes. It's not easy to spend 4–5 hours a day on scorination and still find inspiration and time to RP.

[CoraSpia]

It might just be the fact I've had seven beers, but I really don't see any issues with Saintland's proposed amendments. While I'm not going to second them formally until I'm fully sober, I'm not overly concerned about the furore surrounding them.

That said, as Ceni and others have pointed out, Coraspia, you really do need to stop thinking you are somehow able to pull off an Olympics with no prior hosting experience. I know it's not the nicest thing to hear – I bid for every World Cup from 7 through 21 before hosting WC22 – but some things really do take time. I'm sure even Saintland, who you no doubt consider closest to your position, would agree.

Were previous Olympic hosts, who managed to rp, the exception rather than the rule?

As someone who hosted three Games, yes, most definitely yes. It's not easy to spend 4–5 hours a day on scorination and still find inspiration and time to RP.

Then I apologise to CH. I have participated in three Olympics, two of whose hosts rped. I believed it was normal.

[Commerce Heights]

I was going to wait to do this until I finished the closing ceremony RP, but I’m not in the mood for that right now, so here we go.

*retrieves presidential hat*

The first thing I want to address is sections 1.2.1 and 1.3.1 of the Olympic Charter:

1.2.1. Composition
The Executive Committee is composed of the four Olympic Council members that most recently hosted an Olympic Games to its completion, and one other person appointed by the President.

1.3.1. Appointment
The President shall be the host of the most recent completed Games of the Olympiad. The Vice President shall be the host of the most recent completed Olympic Winter Games.

While in this instance, it is unambiguous that the most recent completed Games of the Olympiad were the Games of the XI Olympiad, and that I was the host of those Games, these sections do not make clear what should happen in the event that the Games are abandoned in progress and a replacement host elected by the Executive Committee completes them. I propose that, in that case, a replacement host should become President or Vice President and sit on the Executive Committee as long as they complete more than half of the medal events. The proposed amedment reads:

Section 1.2.1 of the Olympic Charter is amended to say,
“The Executive Committee includes the four Olympic Council members that most recently hosted an Olympic Games to its completion. If the host of an Olympic Games was replaced by the Executive Committee, the new host will be entitled to their place on the Executive Committee as long as more than half of all medal events remained to be completed at the time of their election. The fifth member of the Executive Committee is appointed by the President. If less than four Olympic Council members have hosted a Games, then all of them will sit on the Executive Committee, and one additional member will be appointed by the Vice President.”

Section 1.3.1 of the Olympic Charter is amended to say,
“The President shall be the host of the most recent completed Games of the Olympiad. The Vice President shall be the host of the most recent completed Olympic Winter Games. If the host of an Olympic Games was replaced by the Executive Committee, the new host will be entitled to become President or Vice President as long as more than half of all medal events remained to be completed at the time of their election.

“In the event that the President is unavailable to perform his or her responsibilites, the Vice Presdent shall assume the role of President. Both the President and Vice President may appoint successors, to assume the role of President when both the President and Vice President are unavailable; successors appointed by the President will supersede those appointed by the Vice President.”

Second, I would like to remind everyone that the original intent of the clause allowing the President to appoint a member of the Executive Committee was not for the terms of past hosts to be extended, as it has often been used, but rather to allow a place for a non-host who otherwise contributes to the Olympic Games. For this reason, I appoint Vekaiyu to the Executive Committee.


Third, I want to return to the discussion which Gregoryisgodistan began in the Games of the XI Olympiad OOC thread regarding the IOC’s decision to allow sports to be added to the program for a specific edition of the Olympic Games. I’m sure there are lots of different opinions on this, so I’m not going to make a formal proposal at this point, but my preference would be:

• All events in the sports which are established as part of the RL Olympic program—i.e., those sports which are listed in the Bye-law to Rule 45 of the RL Olympic Charter and whose international federations are members of the ASOIF or AIOWF—must be included as medal events.
• Additional sports may be proposed in a host bid as medal events. Each such sport must be individually approved by a vote of the Olympic Council, which will take place at the same time as the host vote. A host bid may not be made contingent on the inclusion of any additional sport.
• During the year of the RL Games of the Olympiad, additional sports which are being contested at those RL Games may be included without a vote of the Olympic Council.

Whether anyone likes that idea or not, I think something will need to be done, as under the current rules, the additional Tokyo 2020 sports would become mandatory as soon as the complete event list for Tokyo 2020 becomes known.


Fourth, I have made some corrections to the non-binding entry limits for events on the base list for the Games of the Olympiad:

• Badminton: Maximum of 2 entries for each event.
• Track Cycling: Women’s Team Pursuit is now for a team of 4 rather than 3.
• Equestrian Eventing: Maximum of 4 individual entries.
• Artistic Gymnastics: Maximum of 5 individual entries.
• Sailing: Women’s Skiff is for a team of 2.
• Tennis: The limit for Mixed Doubles was missing from the list.

Fifth, I propose that Section 2.3.4 of the Olympic Charter, which allows the Executive Committee to replace the host of an abandoned Games, be extended to allow for the replacement of a host in case of grave misconduct. If, for example, a host were to attempt to use the threat of cancelling the Olympic Games as leverage in a personal vendetta, the Executive Committee should have the authority to replace the host irrespective of whether the host carries out that threat. The particulars of what constitute “grave misconduct” should be left for the Executive Committee to decide. The proposed amendment reads:

Section 2.3.4 of the Olympic Charter is amended to say,
“The host or hosts will be required to provide signup data and scorinator input files to a member of the Executive Committee, as would be needed to allow a replacement host to complete the Games.

“In the event that the host or hosts abandon the Games or are dismissed, the Executive Committee may vote to choose a replacement host, or to leave the Games abandoned. If a majority of voters choose to abandon the Games, their decision will be final; if a plurality of voters choose a replacement host, the replacement will be furnished with the files and charged with completing the Games (the contingency provisions may be used again in case of another abandonment). If neither a majority vote to abandon nor a plurality to choose a particular replacement host, the President will choose how to proceed.

“The Executive Committee may vote to dismiss the host or hosts in case of grave misconduct. Such a vote requires a unanimous decision of all members who cast votes. If the host or hosts are members of the Executive Committee, they may not vote.”

---

Since this thread seems to be veering off topic, I figure now is as good a time as any to introduce three proposed amendments that I had drafted over a month ago and decided to save until after the Games of the XI Olympiad were over.

I. Add the following as Section 2.3.4, re-numbering the current section to 2.3.5:

2.3.4. Contingency prior to start of Games
In the event that an elected host withdraws prior to the start of the Games, the election of said host is null and void and the Olympic Council shall go through the normal process of electing a host for said Games.

Additionally, alter the new 2.3.5 's header to read

2.3.5 Contingency during Games

This would ensure that, if a host withdraws after opening signups, everyone who had signed up would have to wait at least a week to find out if their signups are still going to count or if they’ve wasted their time. I don’t see what the benefit of that would be.

II. Alter 2.2 to read as follows:

2.2. Choice of sports
The Olympic Winter Games shall contain only sports contested on snow or ice, while the Games of the Olympiad shall contain only sports not contested on snow or ice. All Games must include all of the sports and events on the base list identified by the President, with no additions or omissions except as permitted by the extended list. Any such additions or omissions must be identified in a hosting bid. No restriction is made on the inclusion of demonstration sports and events for which medals are not awarded. All medal and demonstration events which are specified in a hosting bid must be held.

This language is ambiguous. Specified in a hosting bid? Any hosting bid? If you mean that, in the case of a host abandoning the Games, that any replacement host is obligated to host all the events, including demonstration events, that were in the original hosting bid, then I disagree. If you mean only that the events in the hosts’ own bid must be held, then I agree, but I think that failing to host all of the events constitutes abandoning the Games, which we have rules for already.

But it does give me another idea. The World Cup has a rule that hosts may not discuss as part of their bid whether they will scorinate any friendly matches. Perhaps the Olympic Games should have a similar rule regarding demonstration events.

III. Alter 2.3.2 to read as follows:

2.3.2. Bid requirements
Bids must identify what scorinators will be used for all medal events, and must make all these scorinators publicly available for testing. Bids that do not include a testable scorinator will not be considered by the Council. No individual may scorinate a medal event on behalf of the host unless specified in the host bid.

I don’t see what this accomplishes. It forbids hosts from delegating scorination in an emergency situation. It even forbids hosts from delegating scorination in case they want a neutral party to scorinate a particularly important match, as is commonplace in other NS Sports competitions. But it can be entirely circumvented by simply including a disclaimer in the host bid which reserves that right.

Timing is unimportant. What is important is that we have a host who is dedecated to the thread, and who is willing to respond to issues which are rped out in the thread. We did not have that this year.

I tried responding to an issue that was RPed out in the thread, but it turned out that the person I was responding to didn’t actually want me to respond. After that I was somewhat less motivated to do so.

[Liventia]

Section 1.2.1 of the Olympic Charter is amended to say,
“The Executive Committee includes the four Olympic Council members that most recently hosted an Olympic Games to its completion. If the host of an Olympic Games was replaced by the Executive Committee, the new host will be entitled to their place on the Executive Committee as long as more than half of all medal events remained to be completed at the time of their election. The fifth member of the Executive Committee is appointed by the President. If less than four Olympic Council members have hosted a Games, then all of them will sit on the Executive Committee, and one additional member will be appointed by the Vice President.”

Section 1.3.1 of the Olympic Charter is amended to say,
“The President shall be the host of the most recent completed Games of the Olympiad. The Vice President shall be the host of the most recent completed Olympic Winter Games. If the host of an Olympic Games was replaced by the Executive Committee, the new host will be entitled to become President or Vice President as long as more than half of all medal events remained to be completed at the time of their election.

“In the event that the President is unavailable to perform his or her responsibilites, the Vice Presdent shall assume the role of President. Both the President and Vice President may appoint successors, to assume the role of President when both the President and Vice President are unavailable; successors appointed by the President will supersede those appointed by the Vice President.”

Fair enough, seconded.

Second, I would like to remind everyone that the original intent of the clause allowing the President to appoint a member of the Executive Committee was not for the terms of past hosts to be extended, as it has often been used, but rather to allow a place for a non-host who otherwise contributes to the Olympic Games. For this reason, I appoint Vekaiyu to the Executive Committee.

I don't think that's necessarily how it's been intended to have been used. Certainly when I was President, I don't recall even appointing anyone to the Committee. As far as I'm aware I'm the only person, until now, who's been officially appointed as the President's selection to the Executive Committee. And I think it's completely up to the President of the time how he or she decides to fill the spot, whether his selection is a previous host or otherwise.

Fifth, I propose that Section 2.3.4 of the Olympic Charter, which allows the Executive Committee to replace the host of an abandoned Games, be extended to allow for the replacement of a host in case of grave misconduct. If, for example, a host were to attempt to use the threat of cancelling the Olympic Games as leverage in a personal vendetta, the Executive Committee should have the authority to replace the host irrespective of whether the host carries out that threat. The particulars of what constitute “grave misconduct” should be left for the Executive Committee to decide.

This happens literally so rarely that I'm not convinced we actually need to legislate for it.

[Commerce Heights]

I don't think that's necessarily how it's been intended to have been used. Certainly when I was President, I don't recall even appointing anyone to the Committee. As far as I'm aware I'm the only person, until now, who's been officially appointed as the President's selection to the Executive Committee. And I think it's completely up to the President of the time how he or she decides to fill the spot, whether his selection is a previous host or otherwise.

When I said “original intent”, I meant that it’s literally the reason why it was originally proposed. I’m not disputing that other presidents can appoint whomever they like.

[Gregoryisgodistan]

My understanding is the new sports in Tokyo 2020 wouldn't become mandatory until 2020, just as rugby sevens and golf weren't added to the NS Olympics until this year. And then they'd be un-mandatory in 2024 unless whoever the host that year IRL is decides to do them as well. At least under the current constitution.

I share CH's preference for the changes to that part.

[Zwangzug]

*emerges from factbook maze* According to my notes, I think I might have been the presidential appointee after the Sixth Winter Olympics (when Kelssek was president, looks like?).

*burrows into factbook maze again* Carry on, poke me when you have more shiny wiki tables to ogle over. >.>