The Eagle has Fallen (PLANING MT CLOSED INVITE ONLY)

[Inyourfaceistan]

Also, i must mention that i appreciate you taking the time and effort to offer us such a beautiful illustration. It pales in comparison to my own crudely drawn one. I can see how we are both sweating so hard just to stress a point here.

It didn't take that long, but thanks though!

[Asigna]

I lolled at Jorn being "accurate" (because its true, OTH systems are very unreliable) .

Accuracy for an OTH system is a matter of what it can turn into a pixel that represents something 5 - 30km from its actual position.
JORN can turn something with an RCS that almost no other OTH system can see into said undescriptive pixel.

And no, i'm not using OTH radar for this endeavor, i'm using a more accurate system.

Then how the hell do you expect to see the cruise missiles flying under the vision of your ground-based systems and dodging your AWACS patrols? (assuming you do have AWACS airborne, which was never mentioned)

First off, the conditions surrounding RV's navy is different from conditions surrounding mine. His only protection are his AWACs and it is highly doubtful it could field enough power to be able to detect a single stealth missile traveling alone. He doesn't have any more sophisticated infrastructure in his favor to allow him to detect enough, let alone track the missiles flying at subsonic speed. The moment they enter within terminal velocity, hence enabling more optimum view of the missiles from AWACs, it would be too late. Not to mention radar absorbent paint is part of the equation hence heavily reducing what may be left of the possible radar returns detected as a result of any attempt by AWACs to use lookdown methods to detect the missiles. RV has only one AWAC on each taskforce (IIRC) hence adding up to his problems. But i heavily invite him to shoot down said missiles if he still has a number of tricks in mind.

His SAM's, his ship's radar and his AWACS, even if they aren't anti-stealth (which is pretty lame of you to just assume so) are still in position to actually be able to bounce signals off of your missiles, because they are flying at an altitude where they are exposed to radar emissions outside of the critical source point. Additionally, because of altitude many of your missiles will be hit by radar from different angles, whereas the JASSM's I lobbed are only going to be seen from the front (the most RCS reduced angle) and mostl likely only in their terminal phase.

More importantly, a missile flying that fast is going to have a huge IR signature, stealth or not. RVN would likely have IR systems to pick them up at range, while my missiles are slower and will have a much smaller and easily reducible IR signature that again, will only be detected in their terminal phase.

First thing's first, do answer my question. Is this feature the terrain contour mapping that is present in Tomahawk missiles you're talking about?

Yes and sort-of.

Mid-Course Guidance for all (Inyurstan) missiles used in the attack is through TIMU, which works like GPS but uses internally-stored data so it doesn't need to rely on the satellite.
The Tomahawk missiles use TERCOM and the JASSM-ER (and LRASM) missiles use DSMAC. The latter use jam-resistant radar altimeters to fly at an almost sea-skimming altitude with ECM resistance.

You're all not listening were you (or reading is the correct term for a situation like this)?

Pls reread this. I beseech you. I need not to go through the trouble of having to explain things all over again.

And no, Zhouran's articles don't even apply since i'm using ground based static platforms not aircraft ones.

Please review the image I posted since you don't seem to understand why ground-based platforms are easily avoided by cruise missiles.

To repeat myself, it doesn't matter if you the best freaking radar in the world if the system still can physically bounce beams off of the target, it can't see the target.
This is why OTH and aircraft radar are necessary for early/long-range detection of cruise missiles...

---

P.S. Ironically, in your description you have actually made the position of the Asignese air defenses in Occupied Australia worse. When I planned the attack I was assuming you were using OTH and aircraft radar but damn, if I had known you were just using ground based radar I could have just used Tomahawks...

I will deal with this tomorrow. We're not done here.

[Aeyariss]

Ugh, when is this RP coming to an end?

[Inyourfaceistan]

Ugh, when is this RP coming to an end?

This RP has only just begun...

Or end when we all get tired of the hand waving and retcon...

[Aeyariss]

Probably ends up being the later. But that's just my 2 cents.

[Gigaverse]

Probably ends up being the later. But that's just my 2 cents.

To be frank, it's probably better that way. I'm tired of watching the sequels of sequels.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Here is a grand idea, can we fucking stop with the absolute bullshit delay tactics and actually fucking post?

There is no god damned reason why the OOC can contain stupid long debates about the most irrelevant of bullshit, while at the same time trying to claim that one doesn't have time to make an IC post. We are not here to write your IC posts for you Asigna, go to the mentors or even better the Realism consultation thread for that shit and stop wasting our time.

[Flardania]

Here is a grand idea, can we fucking stop with the absolute bullshit delay tactics and actually fucking post?

There is no god damned reason why the OOC can contain stupid long debates about the most irrelevant of bullshit, while at the same time trying to claim that one doesn't have time to make an IC post. We are not here to write your IC posts for you Asigna, go to the mentors or even better the Realism consultation thread for that shit and stop wasting our time.

to be fair the discussion is happening in the ooc thread because we are having a discussion about the previous post. This is in a sense relevant.

[Inyourfaceistan]

There is no god damned reason why the OOC can contain stupid long debates about the most irrelevant of bullshit, while at the same time trying to claim that one doesn't have time to make an IC post.

I get why you are upset, but some of us have very valid reasons for wanting Asigna to stop using the "iWin" shields, laughing off our attacks like we are stupid, then moving on and pretending everything is hunky-dory.

I mean no offense, but if he has hand-waved out of all of our attacks, do you really want to know what magical BS scenario he has waiting to effortlessly yet nonsensically walk out of your attack unscathed?

to be fair the discussion is happening in the ooc thread because we are having a discussion about the previous post. This is in a sense relevant.

Agreed.

[Asigna]

There is no god damned reason why the OOC can contain stupid long debates about the most irrelevant of bullshit, while at the same time trying to claim that one doesn't have time to make an IC post.

I get why you are upset, but some of us have very valid reasons for wanting Asigna to stop using the "iWin" shields, laughing off our attacks like we are stupid, then moving on and pretending everything is hunky-dory.

I mean no offense, but if he has hand-waved out of all of our attacks, do you really want to know what magical BS scenario he has waiting to effortlessly yet nonsensically walk out of your attack unscathed?

to be fair the discussion is happening in the ooc thread because we are having a discussion about the previous post. This is in a sense relevant.

Agreed.

On further notice i will have to recall my latest post regarding Tronesia. It was, i admit, a very hastily written one. I will rp with appropriate casualties in proportion to the conditions in question. First i will continue this debate with Inyursta about what those conditions are and its definitely not me who's going to change the stance to a larger extent. Of course, for the meantime, please be patient while i attend other matters and relax.

Of course, yes, if they have the time, please do call forth the appropriate RP mentors to break this disagreement.

[Rokodan]

...and Thailand forces is still standing by for action.

[Asigna]

I'm sorry i did not work much on the post guys. I had some hard time spending the past week making this tedious video for my psychology project for my pre thesis submission and making some artwork (war related, yay).

Do understand.

[New Aeyariss]

I'm sorry i did not work much on the post guys. I had some hard time spending the past week making this tedious video for my psychology project for my pre thesis submission and making some artwork (war related, yay).

Do understand.

By the way Asigna a question: How are you streaming data from your microsats?

[Asigna]

I'm sorry i did not work much on the post guys. I had some hard time spending the past week making this tedious video for my psychology project for my pre thesis submission and making some artwork (war related, yay).

Do understand.

By the way Asigna a question: How are you streaming data from your microsats?

The same way how weather satellites send there data. And if you're going to attempt jamming. I've long seen that coming.

Yeah, the satforce has its weaknesses, i admit. Not exactly the bayan's forte.

[Inyourfaceistan]

By the way Asigna a question: How are you streaming data from your microsats?

The same way how weather satellites send there data. And if you're going to attempt jamming. I've long seen that coming.

Yeah, the satforce has its weaknesses, i admit. Not exactly the bayan's forte.

It's a lot easier to spot, decipher and confirm giant cloud formations covering thousands upon thousands of square nautical miles than it is small military-sized dots scattered about in motion...
It also takes a lot less valuable time.

[Asigna]

The same way how weather satellites send there data. And if you're going to attempt jamming. I've long seen that coming.

Yeah, the satforce has its weaknesses, i admit. Not exactly the bayan's forte.

It's a lot easier to spot, decipher and confirm giant cloud formations covering thousands upon thousands of square nautical miles than it is small military-sized dots scattered about in motion...
It also takes a lot less valuable time.

Not if your spending billions of dollars on creating live coverage photographic satellites in conjunction with platforms on the ground. We don't purely rely on satellites, there are other factors that come into play. It's really a situation based opportunity that we are able to detect enemy ships. Which is why we didn't give absolute fucks on Cuscatlan's fleet deploying, it is much cheaper to monitor only the home seas and territorial waters with the more accurate satellites. Although the bayan does have assets that could track submarines through multiple sensors such as thermal trails (only used as a last resort) on the ocean and even with this, it is really hard due to its effectiveness being dependent on the weather situation.

Team work is key.

[Asigna]

I'm sorry i did not work much on the post guys. I had some hard time spending the past week making this tedious video for my psychology project for my pre thesis submission and making some artwork (war related, yay).

Do understand.

By the way Asigna a question: How are you streaming data from your microsats?

Oh, if you're asking. Microsats are not the only assets of our force. We have a maximum of 80 satellites. Originally for weather but purposely retrofitted for military purpose. And yes, i'll give a preview, Paddy did a very very serious damage on the Sat force.

[Republic of Vietnam]

Asigna, I have one slight problem with your post.

In order to jam the bayan's systems effectively, which was remotely possible considering the pre arrangement of the bayan's defense arrays, the AWACs would have to go as close to 240 km and not only for jamming operations, but also for ship detection. This immediately made them a target for the lethal 48N6DM. Since jamming operations are really demanding task that would take some time to be effective, the enemy's AEWAC platform was just another turkey to be shot.

First off, no where in my post did I say I am using my AEWAC to jam your systems or use it to detect ships. You can't just assume bs like that. I'm using my AEWAC in a C&C role and also using it to detect aircraft and SAM launches. In addition, you can't just place restrictions on me like that. The 737 AEWAC can detects aircraft at 370 km max range, so I have no problem staying outside of a 250km radius to avoid your missiles, and detect aircraft and SAM launches at the same time.

The enemy AWACs were already being dealt with at a distance thrice that of the F-15.

You have said that you fired your missiles at the AEWAC at 240km. From that, you would have fired missiles at my F-15s at 80km. By the time you get that lock-on, your radars would have been blown up by AGM-88E AARGM (max distance of 150km). And yes, I did say in the Attack summary and the post that the planes would launch AGM-88E at detected radar and SAM sites, and in total my strike group has 40+ AGM-88E carried on the planes. So go figure.

[New Aeyariss]

Oh, if you're asking. Microsats are not the only assets of our force. We have a maximum of 80 satellites. Originally for weather but purposely retrofitted for military purpose. And yes, i'll give a preview, Paddy did a very very serious damage on the Sat force.

And that won't help you even a bit to be honest, even without Paddy's damage. How are you trying to use them?

[Asigna]

Asigna, I have one slight problem with your post.

In order to jam the bayan's systems effectively, which was remotely possible considering the pre arrangement of the bayan's defense arrays, the AWACs would have to go as close to 240 km and not only for jamming operations, but also for ship detection. This immediately made them a target for the lethal 48N6DM. Since jamming operations are really demanding task that would take some time to be effective, the enemy's AEWAC platform was just another turkey to be shot.

First off, no where in my post did I say I am using my AEWAC to jam your systems or use it to detect ships. You can't just assume bs like that. I'm using my AEWAC as a C&C aircraft and SAM launch detection platform. In addition, you can't just place restrictions on me like that. The 737 AEWAC can detects aircraft at 370 km max range, so I have no problem staying outside of a 250km radius to avoid your missiles and detect aircrafts and SAM launches at the same time.

The enemy AWACs were already being dealt with at a distance thrice that of the F-15.

You have said that you fired your missiles at the AEWAC at 240km. From that, you would have fired missiles at my F-15s at 80km. By the time you get that lock-on, your radars would have been blown up by AGM-88E AARGM (max distance of 150km). And yes, I did say in the Attack summary and the post that the planes would launch AGM-88E at detected radar and SAM sites, and in total my strike group has 40+ AGM-88E carried on the planes. So go figure.

I can still fire my missiles all the way from the 400 km if you insist. I will tweak the numbers right now if you may. You didn't mention attacking the AWAC assets there did you? I can still edit cause it's pretty much my turn. No touch moves.

Oh, if you're asking. Microsats are not the only assets of our force. We have a maximum of 80 satellites. Originally for weather but purposely retrofitted for military purpose. And yes, i'll give a preview, Paddy did a very very serious damage on the Sat force.

And that won't help you even a bit to be honest, even without Paddy's damage. How are you trying to use them?

Hahah, then in that case, Guadalupador's fleet would had not been sunken by Ryisa and that nation would still be united to this day. The same situation applies there and here.

[New Aeyariss]

Hahah, then in that case, Guadalupador's fleet would had not been sunken by Ryisa and that nation would still be united to this day. The same situation applies there and here.

I request an answer to my statement, not statement about Riysa's fleet.

[Asigna]

Yeah Cuscy, i saw the post you just deleted and i can be kind to respond to it.



I have AWACs too, haven't i told you used not only to detect the incoming attack, but also pinpoint the coordinates of the Vietnamese ships? Not to mention some secret allies in the South China sea (i forgot, i signed a deal with them on data/surveillance sharing) who i will mention on the forecoming ORBAT.

Satellite is used to detect missile/rocket launches or submarine trails. Not much. But it's a bonus when needed. More of an expensive support asset the bayan itself is not interested in operating too much.

[New Aeyariss]

I have AWACs too, haven't i told you used not only to detect the incoming attack, but also pinpoint the coordinates of the Vietnamese ships? Not to mention some secret allies who i will mention on the forecoming ORBAT.

Okay. How did it get past Vietnamese fighter screen positioned 500km around it with their own AWACS to detect yours and shoot it down before it can detect Vietnamese naval assets?

This is exactly why Dor's carrier group's wipeout was even possible...

Satellite is used to detect missile/rocket launches or submarine trails. Not much. But it's a bonus when needed. More of an expensive support asset the bayan itself is not interested in operating too much.

Then sorry but no satellite currently in existence can do such stuff, unless you would mean for ballistic missiles.

[Inyourfaceistan]

Hahah, then in that case, Guadalupador's fleet would had not been sunken by Ryisa and that nation would still be united to this day. The same situation applies there and here.

If I am not mistaken, Ris detected Dor's fleet through a combination of AWAC's, ELINT/SIGINT, paired with satellite information and if I remember correctly horrible OPSEC on Dor's part (not terribly sure about the last one though).

What you seem to be describing is a magic web of insta-detection satellites designed for targeting of naval vessels mixed in with islands and civilian traffic.

[New Aeyariss]

If I am not mistaken, Ris detected Dor's fleet through a combination of AWAC's, ELINT/SIGINT, paired with satellite information and if I remember correctly horrible OPSEC on Dor's part (not terribly sure about the last one though).

What you seem to be describing is a magic web of insta-detection satellites designed for targeting of naval vessels mixed in with islands and civilian traffic.

Not to mention that in next post the Bayan will enjoy a Kessler effect above itself...