2500: A new colonialism (OOC/AH/Signups)

[Free Asian Ports]

People arguing about weapons, and I'm sitting here wondering whether or not to arm my torpedoes with nukes.

[The Manticoran Empire]

People arguing about weapons, and I'm sitting here wondering whether or not to arm my torpedoes with nukes.

Nukes may work well if they hit the ship or get close enough to it. A proximity detonation, depending on warhead yield, out to maybe 5 km could cause damage to electrical systems and maybe even damage the hull. Though good radiation protection would require a direct impact for anything more than systems interference.

[Plzen]

Remember Rick Robinson's First Law of Space Combat?

Lasers can melt through any kind of armour really really fast, and kinetic weapons can do it even faster.

I don't think you can defend against kinetic missiles - or lasers, for that matter - without using absurdly thick armour that will cripple spacecraft performance.

Seriously. We're talking about something comparable to a good nuke here.

The Stockholm-class has such thin armour, because against 50x 30mm lasers (which you say you will have on your new warship), it's not going to matter very much whether my armour is 27mm or 270mm. One good volley of lasers and the Stockholm is space wreck.

I will also add that if you expect to fire your lasers more than once, you'll also need to have good radiators, that - forget space lasers - a good general infantry grenade will punch through. Then again, one round of lasers is probably enough anyways.

Just a note on the missiles, the "Arctic Storm" and the "Odin" is basically a big sensor on a rocket. Maybe 3m long, if even that.

As far as my lasers, stop that argument, ok? Cold Fusion isn't even really possible right now. It is in this 26th century. Bugger off the improbabilities of lasers for now. If the range is long enough, a KEW can be detected and either destroyed or knocked off course. One of the reasons for point defense weapons in science fiction. Now yes, a laser is going to just burn through anything with enough power and a KEW, if it hits and is going fast enough, is gonna make your day go south really fast. Which is why ships would be compartmentalized. If the hull is breached, bulkheads would automatically seal to keep the atmosphere inside, where it needs to be. Space battles will be like Jutland, almost.

Though, personally, I like the Honorverse idea of space combat. Hell, I may just reboot my whole naval force.

I will talk to Free Asian Ports about that Cold Fusion thing...

But seriously. I'm telling you that lasers are excellent weapon with pros and cons. Here, I even made a nifty chart for you.

Why use lasers?	Why use kinetics?
Excellent projectile velocity Excellent engagement range Cannot be intercepted	Can be reloaded Higher sheer damage Higher firing rate

[The Manticoran Empire]

As far as my lasers, stop that argument, ok? Cold Fusion isn't even really possible right now. It is in this 26th century. Bugger off the improbabilities of lasers for now. If the range is long enough, a KEW can be detected and either destroyed or knocked off course. One of the reasons for point defense weapons in science fiction. Now yes, a laser is going to just burn through anything with enough power and a KEW, if it hits and is going fast enough, is gonna make your day go south really fast. Which is why ships would be compartmentalized. If the hull is breached, bulkheads would automatically seal to keep the atmosphere inside, where it needs to be. Space battles will be like Jutland, almost.

Though, personally, I like the Honorverse idea of space combat. Hell, I may just reboot my whole naval force.

I will talk to Free Asian Ports about that Cold Fusion thing...

But seriously. I'm telling you that lasers are excellent weapon with pros and cons. Here, I even made a nifty chart for you.

Why use lasers?	Why use kinetics?
Excellent projectile velocity Excellent engagement range Cannot be intercepted	Can be reloaded Higher sheer damage Higher firing rate

I have no problem with the Cold Fusion thing. And Honorverse combines KEWs (missiles with nuclear and laser cluster warheads) and energy weapons (lasers and grasers [basically a more powerful, less physics defying space laser or some shit like that.]) in space combat. They have some energy shielding but rely mainly on point defense and electronic countermeasures to stop missiles. The battles generally result in heavy casualties. In the book On Basilisk Station, Commander Honor Harrington uses her light cruiser to take down a dreadnought sized Q-ship and loses I think a third of her crew while the Q ship is completely destroyed. The weapon impacts wreak havoc on her ship, even causing one of her reactors to overload shortly after it was jettisoned, killing most of her engineering staff.

[Plzen]

Here is a perfect analogy that I just thought of:

Think of space battles like 17th century duels.

As the duelists (spaceships) approach each other, the first thing to go off are the pistols (laser weapons), that can seriously cripple the enemy at higher range and can't be defended against. But if the enemy is still up after you shoot the pistol, hope you have your sword (kinetic weapons) up because you're not going to get time to reload your pistol.

If that wasn't enough, there's also the fact that swords (kinetic weapons) are excellent at defending against other swords (kinetic weapons).

[The Manticoran Empire]

Here is a perfect analogy that I just thought of:

Think of space battles like 17th century duels.

As the duelists (spaceships) approach each other, the first thing to go off are the pistols (laser weapons), that can seriously cripple the enemy at higher range and can't be defended against. But if the enemy is still up after you shoot the pistol, hope you have your sword (kinetic weapons) up because you're not going to get time to reload your pistol.

If that wasn't enough, there's also the fact that swords (kinetic weapons) are excellent at defending against other swords (kinetic weapons).

Well, in Honorverse, missiles are used first at ranges of 1 million kilometers and down due to the difficulty of focusing lasers and grasers. In Honorverse, lasers and grasers are more like cannons on 18th century warships while missiles are missiles. Battles still are brutal, though, either which way you do it.

[Plzen]

Here is a perfect analogy that I just thought of:

Think of space battles like 17th century duels.

As the duelists (spaceships) approach each other, the first thing to go off are the pistols (laser weapons), that can seriously cripple the enemy at higher range and can't be defended against. But if the enemy is still up after you shoot the pistol, hope you have your sword (kinetic weapons) up because you're not going to get time to reload your pistol.

If that wasn't enough, there's also the fact that swords (kinetic weapons) are excellent at defending against other swords (kinetic weapons).

Well, in Honorverse, missiles are used first at ranges of 1 million kilometers and down due to the difficulty of focusing lasers and grasers. In Honorverse, lasers and grasers are more like cannons on 18th century warships while missiles are missiles. Battles still are brutal, though, either which way you do it.

I'm going for slightly more realism than Honorverse.

I personally like my analogy a lot, because it gives lasers and kinetic weapons extremely distinct roles.

[The Manticoran Empire]

Well, in Honorverse, missiles are used first at ranges of 1 million kilometers and down due to the difficulty of focusing lasers and grasers. In Honorverse, lasers and grasers are more like cannons on 18th century warships while missiles are missiles. Battles still are brutal, though, either which way you do it.

I'm going for slightly more realism than Honorverse.

I personally like my analogy a lot, because it gives lasers and kinetic weapons extremely distinct roles.

Well, personal preferences I guess. Your's does have the advantage of distinct roles, though I like the idea of a laser being more like a cannon: takes time to recharge and is difficult to aim but can be a game changer. Missiles and lasers will be the major weapons of war, with guns relegated to stopping missiles. Much of the armor will be thermally reflective to try to stop lasers and lots of CIWS to stop missiles.

[Plzen]

I'm going for slightly more realism than Honorverse.

I personally like my analogy a lot, because it gives lasers and kinetic weapons extremely distinct roles.

Well, personal preferences I guess. Your's does have the advantage of distinct roles, though I like the idea of a laser being more like a cannon: takes time to recharge and is difficult to aim but can be a game changer. Missiles and lasers will be the major weapons of war, with guns relegated to stopping missiles. Much of the armor will be thermally reflective to try to stop lasers and lots of CIWS to stop missiles.

OP, can you do a general vote on this? Which system of space warfare should we use for this RP?

Both of us has presented our systems in enough detail for you to make a decision, I think.

[The Manticoran Empire]

Well, personal preferences I guess. Your's does have the advantage of distinct roles, though I like the idea of a laser being more like a cannon: takes time to recharge and is difficult to aim but can be a game changer. Missiles and lasers will be the major weapons of war, with guns relegated to stopping missiles. Much of the armor will be thermally reflective to try to stop lasers and lots of CIWS to stop missiles.

OP, can you do a general vote on this? Which system of space warfare should we use for this RP?

Both of us has presented our systems in enough detail for you to make a decision, I think.

Why not make it a cultural decision? Some nations would emphasize KEWs and Missiles over energy weapons, and thereby be forced to use KEWs and Missiles in long range combat and lasers in close range engagements while others would follow your example. And then some would use missiles and lasers in tandem. Just depends on the nation's culture.

[Free Asian Ports]

As far as my lasers, stop that argument, ok? Cold Fusion isn't even really possible right now. It is in this 26th century. Bugger off the improbabilities of lasers for now. If the range is long enough, a KEW can be detected and either destroyed or knocked off course. One of the reasons for point defense weapons in science fiction. Now yes, a laser is going to just burn through anything with enough power and a KEW, if it hits and is going fast enough, is gonna make your day go south really fast. Which is why ships would be compartmentalized. If the hull is breached, bulkheads would automatically seal to keep the atmosphere inside, where it needs to be. Space battles will be like Jutland, almost.

Though, personally, I like the Honorverse idea of space combat. Hell, I may just reboot my whole naval force.

I will talk to Free Asian Ports about that Cold Fusion thing...

Meh, I said Cold Fusion 'cause it sounded cooler than normal fusion. I know it's not possible now, if at all, but a little suspension of disbelief for power sources is understandable. It's not like it provides a massive boost over other forms of energy production.

[Plzen]

OP, can you do a general vote on this? Which system of space warfare should we use for this RP?

Both of us has presented our systems in enough detail for you to make a decision, I think.

Why not make it a cultural decision? Some nations would emphasize KEWs and Missiles over energy weapons, and thereby be forced to use KEWs and Missiles in long range combat and lasers in close range engagements while others would follow your example. And then some would use missiles and lasers in tandem. Just depends on the nation's culture.

By "system of warfare," I meant more like "what are different weapons like?"

I presented a system of warfare where lasers are excellent single shot weapons but can't be reloaded (radiator space) and kinetic weapons are dominant at long battles, whereas you presented a system of warfare where lasers have much shorter range, but are much more viable long-battle, artillery-style weapons.

Basically, pseudo-realistic duel battles, or Honorverse-style battles?

[The Manticoran Empire]

Why not make it a cultural decision? Some nations would emphasize KEWs and Missiles over energy weapons, and thereby be forced to use KEWs and Missiles in long range combat and lasers in close range engagements while others would follow your example. And then some would use missiles and lasers in tandem. Just depends on the nation's culture.

By "system of warfare," I meant more like "what are different weapons like?"

I presented a system of warfare where lasers are excellent single shot weapons but can't be reloaded (radiator space) and kinetic weapons are dominant at long battles, whereas you presented a system of warfare where lasers have much shorter range, but are much more viable long-battle, artillery-style weapons.

Basically, pseudo-realistic duel battles, or Honorverse-style battles?

More or less. The Honorverse ships do have only a handful of missiles, which is why they use lasers and grasers. Those don't run out of ammo. Missiles run short, since each one is like 4 or 5 meters long and then you have space for the crew and then the propulsion, power supply, etc.

[The Manticoran Empire]

There is a downside to every system.

[The Commonwealth of the South Pacific]

Hmmm, Weaponised Nanotech a thing? or will I have to use your guys systems of warfare?

[The Manticoran Empire]

Hmmm, Weaponised Nanotech a thing? or will I have to use your guys systems of warfare?

AGH! NANITES! NO!

[The Manticoran Empire]

I am definitely going to redo my naval ships at some point. The Halo ships lack firepower while the ISDs, while monetarily cheap, are manpower expensive. Almost 50,000 Personnel per ISD.

[The Commonwealth of the South Pacific]

Hmmm, Weaponised Nanotech a thing? or will I have to use your guys systems of warfare?

AGH! NANITES! NO!

Hmm, I wonder how your Imperials will handle multiple clouds of nano thermite and nano explosives, not to mention your ground forces...

[The Manticoran Empire]

AGH! NANITES! NO!

Hmm, I wonder how your Imperials will handle multiple clouds of nano thermite and nano explosives, not to mention your ground forces...

Fuck you and your nanites.

[The Commonwealth of the South Pacific]

Hmm, I wonder how your Imperials will handle multiple clouds of nano thermite and nano explosives, not to mention your ground forces...

Fuck you and your nanites.

Hmm, I hope your troops will have better things to fight me with than weak threats... also I wonder why you are still using flesh and blood troops seeing as an A.I can perform far, far better than one of your pilots

[Free Asian Ports]

Fuck you and your nanites.

Hmm, I hope your troops will have better things to fight me with than weak threats... also I wonder why you are still using flesh and blood troops seeing as an A.I can perform far, far better than one of your pilots

Do cyborgs count as flesh and blood?

[Plzen]

Design specs for the Narvik-class is... up.

I just extended my last post instead of making a new one, because the thread is cluttered enough already.

Any comments on this ship? It's not really any smaller than the Stockholm-class, but it's still faster because more engines.

[The Manticoran Empire]

Design specs for the Narvik-class is... up.

I just extended my last post instead of making a new one, because the thread is cluttered enough already.

Any comments on this ship? It's not really any smaller than the Stockholm-class, but it's still faster because more engines.

You really like the little ships.

[Plzen]

Design specs for the Narvik-class is... up.

I just extended my last post instead of making a new one, because the thread is cluttered enough already.

Any comments on this ship? It's not really any smaller than the Stockholm-class, but it's still faster because more engines.

You really like the little ships.

Instead of one big ship compartmentalized into lots of sections, I just have lots of ships. Achieves the same end result, really.

[Greater North American Confederacy]

Do not remove for tracking purposes
Name: North American Union
Flag (use a spoiler if it's over 250px): https://www.google.com/search?q=north+american+union+flag&safe=strict&espv=2&biw=1040&bih=882&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwj33f-3t-vKAhVor4MKHcQ4A3UQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=4HRFPNROeRIJFM%3A
Population: 1.5 billion
Territory (if fictional): All of North America
Head of Government:President Austin Babb
History: will work on
Head of State*:President Austin Babb
Number of Soldiers:8 million
Number of Ships:3,000
Number of Tanks:50,000
Number of Spacecraft: 1,000
Religion: Christian
Language: english, spanish, french, other