Open Letter From the Mentor Team, Re: Security Council

[Hobbesistan]

Yeah, so? He's allowed to do that. I'm allowed to do that. You're allowed to do that. Every player in the entire game is allowed to make an SC proposal just like Mall did using similar or near identical language.

Doesn't mean the proposal will pass.



Right, I guess I've just been playing Fake NS all these years, not Real NS.

R/D is not the game that allows the RP forums to exist. That's what was said, that's what I disproved. If you've been looking at your nation page, answering issues, etc, you've been playing NS. Anything beyond that, is not playing the actual NS game, but doing things which may only exist because of. So, while R/D players play NS like everyone else, contrary to their belief, R/D is NOT the game.

R/D is a series of game mechanics.

RP is a forum.

R/D = part of the game, don't see why this is so hard to grasp.

[Tiltjuice]

Not that I think it's likely, mind, but it's a possibility.

He'd never give up the ad revenue.

---

Not that I think it's likely

[Bentus]

Really? That's your counterargument? Making a nation automatically pitches me into the R/D game. Furthermore,

Yes, if your in a region, you can be subject to the R/D game.

.

Does it have to be that way?
Is there no conceivable way to have an account on NS and not be in the R/D game (I'm assuming all nations have to be in regions)?
And if that's the case, then our argument is SHOULD that be the case? If not, then how do we change it?

[New Babylonia]

R/D is not the game that allows the RP forums to exist. That's what was said, that's what I disproved. If you've been looking at your nation page, answering issues, etc, you've been playing NS. Anything beyond that, is not playing the actual NS game, but doing things which may only exist because of. So, while R/D players play NS like everyone else, contrary to their belief, R/D is NOT the game.

R/D is a series of game mechanics.

RP is a forum.

R/D = part of the game, don't see why this is so hard to grasp.

R/D is a series of glitches as explained. And, no, R/D Is still not THE game like you put it. NS existed just dandily before R/D came along, the existence of R/D does not allow NS, nor the RP forums, to exist. The Existence of NS provide for both.

[New Zepuha]

Problem is Hobbes, people like Esquarium and Elysium and other RP regions found a way to combine them. So unless you can separate them, they are essentially one thing.

[Tiltjuice]

R/D is a series of game mechanics.

RP is a forum.

R/D = part of the game, don't see why this is so hard to grasp.

Because it's not.

R/D is a set of tactics that emerged out of the game.

RP is a set of campaigns and tales that emerged out of the forum.

I don't see why the lack of distinction is so hard to grasp.

[Hobbesistan]

Yes, if your in a region, you can be subject to the R/D game.

.

Does it have to be that way?
Is there no conceivable way to have an account on NS and not be in the R/D game (I'm assuming all nations have to be in regions)?
And if that's the case, then our argument is SHOULD that be the case? If not, then how do we change it?

Password the region, although mall is proving thats exploitable.

Have a active founder is #1, Founder passwords can't be liberated and he can eject the delegate if he gets rouge/gets raided at his will.

[Hobbesistan]

R/D is a series of game mechanics.

RP is a forum.

R/D = part of the game, don't see why this is so hard to grasp.

Because it's not.

R/D is a set of tactics that emerged out of the game.

RP is a set of campaigns and tales that emerged out of the forum.

I don't see why the lack of distinction is so hard to grasp.

Spend 1 update actually doing R/D then come back to me with that argument.

[New Babylonia]

Does it have to be that way?
Is there no conceivable way to have an account on NS and not be in the R/D game (I'm assuming all nations have to be in regions)?
And if that's the case, then our argument is SHOULD that be the case? If not, then how do we change it?

Password the region, although mall is proving thats exploitable.

Have a active founder is #1, Founder passwords can't be liberated and he can eject the delegate if he gets rouge/gets raided at his will.

Founders are not eternal. They CTE. They are people, and they cannot/ will not be there forever. This is not a fix all solution like all of R/D seems to think.

[Tiltjuice]

Because it's not.

R/D is a set of tactics that emerged out of the game.

RP is a set of campaigns and tales that emerged out of the forum.

I don't see why the lack of distinction is so hard to grasp.

Spend 1 update actually doing R/D then come back to me with that argument.

I have.

And if further debate is only going to continue along this vein, continuing it is pointless. I refer you to where I posed the question about RPer frustration.

[Hobbesistan]

Password the region, although mall is proving thats exploitable.

Have a active founder is #1, Founder passwords can't be liberated and he can eject the delegate if he gets rouge/gets raided at his will.

Founders are not eternal. They CTE. They are people, and they cannot/ will not be there forever. This is not a fix all solution like all of R/D seems to think.

Then maybe a more gameplay-savvy delegate who knows how influence/endorsements, both game mechanics, work.

[Hobbesistan]

Spend 1 update actually doing R/D then come back to me with that argument.

I have.

And if further debate is only going to continue along this vein, continuing it is pointless. I refer you to where I posed the question about RPer frustration.

Doing what, exactly?

I really don't see your argument here.

[Evil Wolf]

So, while R/D players play NS like everyone else, contrary to their belief, R/D is NOT the game.

Nope, it's part of the game, even if it wasn't part of the game since day one. The Security Council didn't exist until years later. By your logic, if you like proposing SC resolutions, you're not playing the "Real" Nationstates simply because the SC didn't exist from the very start.

In fact all this talk of what is and isn't "Real" Nationstates is purely semantics and is a pretty pointless discussion to get into. It doesn't actually prove anything at all except that the RP can claim they screamed "FIRST!" before any Military Gameplayers did. Woop-de-doo.

[Applebania]

Password the region, although mall is proving thats exploitable.

Have a active founder is #1, Founder passwords can't be liberated and he can eject the delegate if he gets rouge/gets raided at his will.

Founders are not eternal. They CTE. They are people, and they cannot/ will not be there forever. This is not a fix all solution like all of R/D seems to think.

A communal founder, which multiple people always have access to, is, however.

DISCLAIMER: Refounding is a tricky business, and I am on your side in thinking that changes need to be made.

[The Leningrad Union]

R/D is a series of glitches as explained. And, no, R/D Is still not THE game like you put it. NS existed just dandily before R/D came along, the existence of R/D does not allow NS, nor the RP forums, to exist. The Existence of NS provide for both.

What the actual fuck?

You roleplayers and generalites really need to do some more exploring of GP before making statements like this. Back in the day when I was a clueless RPer/NSGer, I thought R/D was evil and should be banned too, but I 'got out more' and realized that it's a part of the game and arguably one of the best and most important parts of the game.

[New Babylonia]

Founders are not eternal. They CTE. They are people, and they cannot/ will not be there forever. This is not a fix all solution like all of R/D seems to think.

Then maybe a more gameplay-savvy delegate who knows how influence/endorsements, both game mechanics, work.

I have never played GP, but watch this.

Endorsements are given by WA nations to other WA nations whom they wish to represent as them as their delegate, or to increase influence.

Influence slowly increases over time, and with WA endorsements. Influence is used for Executive actions by the delegate, like, kicking people.

A founder has unlimited control, and does not require influence for executive actions.

[New Babylonia]

R/D is a series of glitches as explained. And, no, R/D Is still not THE game like you put it. NS existed just dandily before R/D came along, the existence of R/D does not allow NS, nor the RP forums, to exist. The Existence of NS provide for both.

What the actual fuck?

You roleplayers and generalites really need to do some more exploring of GP before making statements like this. Back in the day when I was a clueless RPer/NSGer, I thought R/D was evil and should be banned too, but I 'got out more' and realized that it's a part of the game and arguably one of the best and most important parts of the game.

Its been stated by Admins before that R/D was nothing but a glitch that a few people found, and started using. Rather than patch it up, they left it be. Is there something in that that you do not understand?

[Hobbesistan]

Then maybe a more gameplay-savvy delegate who knows how influence/endorsements, both game mechanics, work.

I have never played GP, but watch this.

Endorsements are given by WA nations to other WA nations whom they wish to represent as them as their delegate, or to increase influence.

Influence slowly increases over time, and with WA endorsements. Influence is used for Executive actions by the delegate, like, kicking people.

A founder has unlimited control, and does not require influence for executive actions.

Yes, which is why a active founder is best, but a active delegate can maintain control and even password a region.

Despite what some people here will say, the technical ability to liberate a rping region to raid it exists, but its practically impossible with current voting.

It's like saying a WA resolution to ban nukes is technically possible, but will never happen.

[Bentus]

Then maybe a more gameplay-savvy delegate who knows how influence/endorsements, both game mechanics, work.

R/D shows that a good raider can overcome a 'gameplay-savvy delegate' - that's the whole point I presume, to compete. And that's when a raider goes up against someone who wants to take part and is willing to invest time in doing so. RP delegates just want to play their game, RP - just like anybody else.

[Hobbesistan]

It's also worth noting that the second such a liberation where to pass, if it was ever to, every defender in the game would immediatly flock to the region and endorse the native delegate, making raiding impractical and or impossible.

[The Leningrad Union]

What the actual fuck?

You roleplayers and generalites really need to do some more exploring of GP before making statements like this. Back in the day when I was a clueless RPer/NSGer, I thought R/D was evil and should be banned too, but I 'got out more' and realized that it's a part of the game and arguably one of the best and most important parts of the game.

Its been stated by Admins before that R/D was nothing but a glitch that a few people found, and started using. Rather than patch it up, they left it be. Is there something in that that you do not understand?

It's a minigame if anything. There's no way to stop it.

[Jordslag]

...
What the hell? This is so off-Topic. Honestly, I don't care what the 'Real' Nationstates is and what isn't. It's all fun, so why should it matter. We need not be divided on wether R/D is part of 'Real' Nationstates or not. We need to be united against Mall's proposal, to destroy it and let Password Regions and RP Regions live on. Live and let be people, and focus on what's important: stopping this proposal.

[Bentus]

R/D is a series of glitches as explained. And, no, R/D Is still not THE game like you put it. NS existed just dandily before R/D came along, the existence of R/D does not allow NS, nor the RP forums, to exist. The Existence of NS provide for both.

What the actual fuck?

You roleplayers and generalites really need to do some more exploring of GP before making statements like this. Back in the day when I was a clueless RPer/NSGer, I thought R/D was evil and should be banned too, but I 'got out more' and realized that it's a part of the game and arguably one of the best and most important parts of the game.

Mate, that's what we're saying. It started off as an accident (maybe 'glitch' was too strong a word) but was kept because it was fun for a community. Hence, it's a part of NS now. But it is just PART. Just like RP, the WA and the rest. Nobody should be forced into it without their consent just to gain access to the rest.

[The Leningrad Union]

...
What the hell? This is so off-Topic. Honestly, I don't care what the 'Real' Nationstates is and what isn't. It's all fun, so why should it matter. We need not be divided on wether R/D is part of 'Real' Nationstates or not. We need to be united against Mall's proposal, to destroy it and let Password Regions and RP Regions live on. Live and let be people, and focus on what's important: stopping this proposal.

Then do that and stop trying to ruin his career as a mod just because you disagree with him.

[Evil Wolf]

R/D is a set of tactics that emerged out of the game.

RP is a set of campaigns and tales that emerged out of the forum.

I don't see why the lack of distinction is so hard to grasp.

Military Gameplay is more than just a set of tactics, however. We have a community, we also have a set of campaigns and tales, expect ours are more tangible than RP because they take place mostly on the game site proper, as dictated by the rules of the game, and not in the RP Forum, as dictated by the rules of our imaginations. Military Gameplay also has forums, they're called "Gameplay", and we also like posting said tales and stories there.

You think of Military Gameplay just as the act of Raiding and Defending, but there's more to it than that.