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Future Tech Advice and Assistance Thread [O.O.C.]

A staging-point for declarations of war and other major diplomatic events. [In character]

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Magia
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Postby Magia » Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:16 pm

All of this advice is indeed very helpful. Guidance on what the key concerns of the community are in relation to other technologies are the criteria that a factbook should really focus on as its being developed. It's the price that is paid for the freedom of having an RP environment without hard rules and limits.

I should also say that I made my posts with a form of magic I've observed in anime, not that used in D&D, in mind. If I misjudged about that, I apologise. Something not only specific to a world and society, but also well curated, as has been discussed in several recent posts. There isn't really a mechanic for "leveling up" to infinity and having ridiculously overpowered characters that are unpredictable and frustrating for RP.

As for my nation, I'll try my best to incorporate this advice. I imagined magic not really as a consequence of an OOC decision to have some sort of advantage or innovation. I'm evaluating it as purely an IC necessity that operates on the same level as, or even worse than, FT technology. It's not so much a technology as an element of society. Therefore, it's going to be there even if it's inferior or offers inefficiencies, and it's not going to be so ridiculously overpowered to focus on "winning."

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Kyrusia
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Postby Kyrusia » Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:29 pm

Magia wrote:All of this advice is indeed very helpful. Guidance on what the key concerns of the community are in relation to other technologies are the criteria that a factbook should really focus on as its being developed. It's the price that is paid for the freedom of having an RP environment without hard rules and limits.

I should also say that I made my posts with a form of magic I've observed in anime, not that used in D&D, in mind. If I misjudged about that, I apologise. Something not only specific to a world and society, but also well curated, as has been discussed in several recent posts. There isn't really a mechanic for "leveling up" to infinity and having ridiculously overpowered characters that are unpredictable and frustrating for RP.

As for my nation, I'll try my best to incorporate this advice. I imagined magic not really as a consequence of an OOC decision to have some sort of advantage or innovation. I'm evaluating it as purely an IC necessity that operates on the same level as, or even worse than, FT technology. It's not so much a technology as an element of society. Therefore, it's going to be there even if it's inferior or offers inefficiencies, and it's not going to be so ridiculously overpowered to focus on "winning."

Glad you've found the advice and assistance provided helpful. :D

As a bit of a follow-up question, and this may go into how your preternatural effects develop (and, possibly, how they are restricted or otherwise "constrained" from being "game-breaking," so to speak), but did you intend for them to be linked or otherwise a consequence of your star-state's religious faith, spirituality, or overriding existential philosophy - or some permutation thereof?
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Magia
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Postby Magia » Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:00 pm

Kyrusia wrote:
Magia wrote:All of this advice is indeed very helpful. Guidance on what the key concerns of the community are in relation to other technologies are the criteria that a factbook should really focus on as its being developed. It's the price that is paid for the freedom of having an RP environment without hard rules and limits.

I should also say that I made my posts with a form of magic I've observed in anime, not that used in D&D, in mind. If I misjudged about that, I apologise. Something not only specific to a world and society, but also well curated, as has been discussed in several recent posts. There isn't really a mechanic for "leveling up" to infinity and having ridiculously overpowered characters that are unpredictable and frustrating for RP.

As for my nation, I'll try my best to incorporate this advice. I imagined magic not really as a consequence of an OOC decision to have some sort of advantage or innovation. I'm evaluating it as purely an IC necessity that operates on the same level as, or even worse than, FT technology. It's not so much a technology as an element of society. Therefore, it's going to be there even if it's inferior or offers inefficiencies, and it's not going to be so ridiculously overpowered to focus on "winning."

Glad you've found the advice and assistance provided helpful. :D

As a bit of a follow-up question, and this may go into how your preternatural effects develop (and, possibly, how they are restricted or otherwise "constrained" from being "game-breaking," so to speak), but did you intend for them to be linked or otherwise a consequence of your star-state's religious faith, spirituality, or overriding existential philosophy - or some permutation thereof?

Yes, although probably more concurrent with the philosophy. The society's easiest way to access the energy its society needed was to develop a system of magic. This requires cooperation and preservation over competition and exploitation (in the sense of destroying or accumulating). Thus the traditional insistence on ecological preservation.

I was also thinking of a cross betwen a feudal society in terms of a basic economic structure with a social structure that is more quasi-socialistic.

There's also an internal split in philosophy that generates a different magical system. One that calls for complete exploitation to accumulate massive amounts of energy at the expense of a more egalitarian and sustainable society. I was going to have this separate internal non-state actor be a problem due to some internal social crisis, although I haven't quite settled on what that might be.

Thank you very much again for your help! You seem very dedicated to the details behind this community and helping it to grow wisely.
Last edited by Magia on Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Kyrusia » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:20 pm

Magia wrote:Thank you very much again for your help! You seem very dedicated to the details behind this community and helping it to grow wisely.

While I appreciate the sentiment - truly, I do - I can't really say that this thread has been successful because of myself. I'm just another member of the Future Tech community trying to help the community I enjoy and love being a part of. Like with everything in NSFT, the Advice Thread itself is a community-driven, community-supported endeavor; without the community, there would be no Advice Thread, none of the fundamentals, nor any of the magnificent depth and breadth of creativity and community respect, collaboration, and cooperation. Virtually every member of this community is, similarly, just as dedicated to helping this community; they deserve the thanks as much (and probably moreso) than I do.

It's this community which has made this thread (if I may) as successful as it is, and as I hope it continues to be. :hug:

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(I try and avoid posts which don't pertain directly to providing advice and assistance, as to keep the thread from devolving into a "chat thread," but I felt this was worth stating in a public manner given, well, it's true.)
Last edited by Kyrusia on Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Nyte » Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:17 am

So, I've been having some issues with my factbook lately; particularly the history section of my wiki style overview. I can't seem to format it/write it to my liking... So, I think I've come up with a solution, but I'm curious for some extra input.

Here's what I'm thinking of doing... I want to change the format of that section to that of a timeline of major events (including events that my people know little, if anything about) starting from before the creation of the interstellar empire itself to what would be considered "present day."

My problem is that I'm not sure of using the timeline format in my factbook, so I'd like a few more opinions as to whether or not I should. Thanks.
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Postby Sunset » Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:26 am

You know, I've tried a timeline format before, and it never ends up looking that good. Finally I went back to a short story-line format and that has worked well enough to at least get me a few up-flags. But I remember loving those giant folding multi-page timelines in the history coffee-table books when I was a kid, and that might just be it; A timeline seems to work best for me when there are twists and turns that make it into a story. Tracing that colored line as it merges/emerges and those major events are listed along with what is happening nearby or even around the world was fascinating. If you're willing to give it a go, that might be the way to go. If you have some nearby neighbors or even NPC frien-emies, make something complex that is its own story-line.
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Stormwrath
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Postby Stormwrath » Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:55 am

I have a question: bombers. Do they make sense to use in FT?

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Postby Vocenae » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:05 am

Without getting too close to THAT particular argument, bombers make perfect sense in FT. Huerdae has bomber strike craft outfitted with missiles, I've used them in planetary defense...They're perfectly viable in FT because once again, it's not so much what you use, just how you use it.
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Postby The Fedral Union » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:22 am

Vocenae wrote:Without getting too close to THAT particular argument, bombers make perfect sense in FT. Huerdae has bomber strike craft outfitted with missiles, I've used them in planetary defense...They're perfectly viable in FT because once again, it's not so much what you use, just how you use it.


Multirole craft are great for air support if your conducting planetary operations; and are generally good for SEOD (Suppression of Enemy Orbital Defense) operations for when you don't want to use expensive and large ships to put out small hotspots of resistance.
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Lubyak
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Postby Lubyak » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:50 am

Stormwrath wrote:I have a question: bombers. Do they make sense to use in FT?


The 'space fighter/bomber' debate is one with a long history here, and one we've basically come to peace with.

The basic idea is that they make sense if you want them to. If you feel like the use of bombers would be effective in your FT, then do so. If you want to use them for plot purposes, or something, feel free to do so. The issue is that since everyone in FT has different interpretations of tech, the question of whether some particular bit of tech 'makes sense' or not can not be answered.

This is why we have the Rule of Cool/Code of Bro. So long as you use your bombers in accordance with that rule, it should be fine. I use bombers. I quite like them. They offer lots of interesting writing opportunities, having a few characters in tight quarters doing very dangerous things during awesome battles.

So do bombers make sense? That's up to you. Do they make sense in your canon? Do they fit with the character of the rest of your nation?

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Postby Excidium Planetis » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:05 am

Okay, so I have a bit of a dilemma.

I generally try to be hard FT. I don't like to use technology that isn't something that could theoretically exist in the real world (or at least, what couldn't exist based on what I know of the real world). This actually works out fairly well for me.

The problem comes in in the one area where I broke the rules: FTL travel. To explain the exotic matter requirements for the Alcubierre drives we use, I invented a fictional device that can manipulate the mass of objects (thus allowing negative mass). It is quite easy to see how this could be weaponized and abused immensly. I shut down that problem by saying that my government shut down all research into these devices, locked all scientists who had ever worked on them away for life, split the plans into parts, encrypted them, and all new devices are constructed by automated factories. Basically, no living being that currently exists in my nation knows how they work, nor how to make them. We just use them for their intended purpose, use in our FTL drives.

But I still have a problem. The Alcubierre drives themselves are too easily weaponized! Theoretical research has shown that Alcubierre drives pick up mass and energy from space as they travel, which is released when the ship stops warp. Apparently, even for short journeys, it is enough to obliterate whatever is in front of the ship. I have a totally improvised and probably unrealistic solution to this for ordinary FTL travel... but some scientists, particularly ones with a knowledge of our FTL drives, could too easily make a weaponized "warp bomb", a ship which basically just picks up a ton of space stuff and then stops right in front of its target (probably a planet).

I can't really ignore the physics that allows for this, and I can't really outlaw such weapons (partly because we love freedom, and mostly because every single FTL starship could become weaponized).

Do I accept that my nation has weapons far more powerful than our standard military stuff, and possibly in civilian hands? Is there anything that would be a solution to this?
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Postby Lubyak » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:39 am

The easiest solution would be to just handwave it away. I know you want to be hard FT, but when a dilemma like this arises, and the only options are simply unpalatable for IC and OOC reasons, I don't think anyone would judge you for handwaving it away and simply saying 'this is not an issue because [technobabble/I say so].' That would be my solution to it. Use a handwave in this one particular instance to simply ignore the problem completely.

There are other solutions of course. This whole thing could be used as a very interesting RP, involving factions opposed to and supportive of the development of a warp bomb, that doesn't occur around normal vessels because [reasons].

The other options can be cultural or legal. You could have it that the use of such technology as a weapon is so traumatic, and regarded as so utterly wrong by your civilisation's people that anyone who did such a thing would become a complete outcast, reviled by society, executed on sight, etc. Such social and cultural pressured would be quite powerful. Having them reinforced by law is also something that could be considered. It reminds me a bit of the Honorverse's attitudes towards orbital bombardment, where there is such a strong jus cogens norm against it--except in very specific situations--that anyone who broke the norm would find themselves being attacked, embargoed, or something by everyone else in short order.

So, basically, there are ways around it. I won't pretend that I have some Hard FT way for you to do so. IMO, the easiest and best thing to do is to handwave it away, but keep that idea in your pocket for future use as an RP. You might also dress up the handwave a bit by factoring in legal and cultural pressures against such a development. Overall, that seems like it'd be a reasonably effective way to resolve the issue.

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Postby Diopolis » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:48 am

Excidium Planetis wrote:Okay, so I have a bit of a dilemma.

I generally try to be hard FT. I don't like to use technology that isn't something that could theoretically exist in the real world (or at least, what couldn't exist based on what I know of the real world). This actually works out fairly well for me.

The problem comes in in the one area where I broke the rules: FTL travel. To explain the exotic matter requirements for the Alcubierre drives we use, I invented a fictional device that can manipulate the mass of objects (thus allowing negative mass). It is quite easy to see how this could be weaponized and abused immensly. I shut down that problem by saying that my government shut down all research into these devices, locked all scientists who had ever worked on them away for life, split the plans into parts, encrypted them, and all new devices are constructed by automated factories. Basically, no living being that currently exists in my nation knows how they work, nor how to make them. We just use them for their intended purpose, use in our FTL drives.

But I still have a problem. The Alcubierre drives themselves are too easily weaponized! Theoretical research has shown that Alcubierre drives pick up mass and energy from space as they travel, which is released when the ship stops warp. Apparently, even for short journeys, it is enough to obliterate whatever is in front of the ship. I have a totally improvised and probably unrealistic solution to this for ordinary FTL travel... but some scientists, particularly ones with a knowledge of our FTL drives, could too easily make a weaponized "warp bomb", a ship which basically just picks up a ton of space stuff and then stops right in front of its target (probably a planet).

I can't really ignore the physics that allows for this, and I can't really outlaw such weapons (partly because we love freedom, and mostly because every single FTL starship could become weaponized).

Do I accept that my nation has weapons far more powerful than our standard military stuff, and possibly in civilian hands? Is there anything that would be a solution to this?

No one knows how the mass manipulation works, so you could just say that a side-effect of it is that it fixes the matter-energy accumulation problem by, say, using it as fuel and expelling it from the warp bubble. Not a perfect solution, but it's slightly harder than just ignoring it, and if no one has access to the blueprints, then they can't weaponize it.
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Postby The Fedral Union » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:13 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Excidium Planetis wrote:Okay, so I have a bit of a dilemma.

I generally try to be hard FT. I don't like to use technology that isn't something that could theoretically exist in the real world (or at least, what couldn't exist based on what I know of the real world). This actually works out fairly well for me.

The problem comes in in the one area where I broke the rules: FTL travel. To explain the exotic matter requirements for the Alcubierre drives we use, I invented a fictional device that can manipulate the mass of objects (thus allowing negative mass). It is quite easy to see how this could be weaponized and abused immensly. I shut down that problem by saying that my government shut down all research into these devices, locked all scientists who had ever worked on them away for life, split the plans into parts, encrypted them, and all new devices are constructed by automated factories. Basically, no living being that currently exists in my nation knows how they work, nor how to make them. We just use them for their intended purpose, use in our FTL drives.

But I still have a problem. The Alcubierre drives themselves are too easily weaponized! Theoretical research has shown that Alcubierre drives pick up mass and energy from space as they travel, which is released when the ship stops warp. Apparently, even for short journeys, it is enough to obliterate whatever is in front of the ship. I have a totally improvised and probably unrealistic solution to this for ordinary FTL travel... but some scientists, particularly ones with a knowledge of our FTL drives, could too easily make a weaponized "warp bomb", a ship which basically just picks up a ton of space stuff and then stops right in front of its target (probably a planet).

I can't really ignore the physics that allows for this, and I can't really outlaw such weapons (partly because we love freedom, and mostly because every single FTL starship could become weaponized).

Do I accept that my nation has weapons far more powerful than our standard military stuff, and possibly in civilian hands? Is there anything that would be a solution to this?

No one knows how the mass manipulation works, so you could just say that a side-effect of it is that it fixes the matter-energy accumulation problem by, say, using it as fuel and expelling it from the warp bubble. Not a perfect solution, but it's slightly harder than just ignoring it, and if no one has access to the blueprints, then they can't weaponize it.



Warp drives like that aren't Hard FT...Its rooted in theory sure; but the amount of exotic energy required to make one is currently beyond our means (even if the limit has been lowered) and I think NASA came out with a statement that solved the system/planet kill problem with such drives. My advice is; try not to go into too many details ; hyper space; warp metrics, wormholes.. People don't inherently need to know how they function in a thread; that's something you put in a factbook or tech manual.

And stuff based on theory is never fool proof anyway; it could turn out to be pseudo science in the next few years for all we know. But hey smoke em if you got em.
Last edited by The Fedral Union on Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nyte
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Postby Nyte » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:50 pm

Sunset wrote:You know, I've tried a timeline format before, and it never ends up looking that good. Finally I went back to a short story-line format and that has worked well enough to at least get me a few up-flags. But I remember loving those giant folding multi-page timelines in the history coffee-table books when I was a kid, and that might just be it; A timeline seems to work best for me when there are twists and turns that make it into a story. Tracing that colored line as it merges/emerges and those major events are listed along with what is happening nearby or even around the world was fascinating. If you're willing to give it a go, that might be the way to go. If you have some nearby neighbors or even NPC frien-emies, make something complex that is its own story-line.


My problem is that I'm not satisfied with my current history section, and it basically is the short story format you mention. I've rewritten it 3 times already, and I still can't seem to get it how I envision it. That's why I want to try a timeline. I'm hoping it will get the point across while still providing the needed background information. I just wanted a few opinions on the matter before I went ahead with it.

Excidium Planetis wrote:Okay, so I have a bit of a dilemma.

I generally try to be hard FT. I don't like to use technology that isn't something that could theoretically exist in the real world (or at least, what couldn't exist based on what I know of the real world). This actually works out fairly well for me.

The problem comes in in the one area where I broke the rules: FTL travel. To explain the exotic matter requirements for the Alcubierre drives we use, I invented a fictional device that can manipulate the mass of objects (thus allowing negative mass). It is quite easy to see how this could be weaponized and abused immensly. I shut down that problem by saying that my government shut down all research into these devices, locked all scientists who had ever worked on them away for life, split the plans into parts, encrypted them, and all new devices are constructed by automated factories. Basically, no living being that currently exists in my nation knows how they work, nor how to make them. We just use them for their intended purpose, use in our FTL drives.

But I still have a problem. The Alcubierre drives themselves are too easily weaponized! Theoretical research has shown that Alcubierre drives pick up mass and energy from space as they travel, which is released when the ship stops warp. Apparently, even for short journeys, it is enough to obliterate whatever is in front of the ship. I have a totally improvised and probably unrealistic solution to this for ordinary FTL travel... but some scientists, particularly ones with a knowledge of our FTL drives, could too easily make a weaponized "warp bomb", a ship which basically just picks up a ton of space stuff and then stops right in front of its target (probably a planet).

I can't really ignore the physics that allows for this, and I can't really outlaw such weapons (partly because we love freedom, and mostly because every single FTL starship could become weaponized).

Do I accept that my nation has weapons far more powerful than our standard military stuff, and possibly in civilian hands? Is there anything that would be a solution to this?


I use the same type of drive... I've even used it as a weapon once or twice though not on the system destroying scale it's theoretically capable of. Simply handwave a limiter on the radius of how far that excess energy/matter can travel (I usually stop it at a few thousand miles which is basically spitting distance in space). Just make such a limiter a part of the drive like I do, and as your people don't know how it works anyway, they'd have no idea how to turn it off.
Last edited by Nyte on Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Perditan
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Postby Perditan » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:34 pm

Excidium Planetis wrote:Okay, so I have a bit of a dilemma.

I generally try to be hard FT. I don't like to use technology that isn't something that could theoretically exist in the real world (or at least, what couldn't exist based on what I know of the real world). This actually works out fairly well for me.

The problem comes in in the one area where I broke the rules: FTL travel. To explain the exotic matter requirements for the Alcubierre drives we use, I invented a fictional device that can manipulate the mass of objects (thus allowing negative mass). It is quite easy to see how this could be weaponized and abused immensly. I shut down that problem by saying that my government shut down all research into these devices, locked all scientists who had ever worked on them away for life, split the plans into parts, encrypted them, and all new devices are constructed by automated factories. Basically, no living being that currently exists in my nation knows how they work, nor how to make them. We just use them for their intended purpose, use in our FTL drives.

But I still have a problem. The Alcubierre drives themselves are too easily weaponized! Theoretical research has shown that Alcubierre drives pick up mass and energy from space as they travel, which is released when the ship stops warp. Apparently, even for short journeys, it is enough to obliterate whatever is in front of the ship. I have a totally improvised and probably unrealistic solution to this for ordinary FTL travel... but some scientists, particularly ones with a knowledge of our FTL drives, could too easily make a weaponized "warp bomb", a ship which basically just picks up a ton of space stuff and then stops right in front of its target (probably a planet).

I can't really ignore the physics that allows for this, and I can't really outlaw such weapons (partly because we love freedom, and mostly because every single FTL starship could become weaponized).

Do I accept that my nation has weapons far more powerful than our standard military stuff, and possibly in civilian hands? Is there anything that would be a solution to this?

I suppose I have something similar with my wormhole technology -- it could be theoretically possible to, say, generate a wormhole with one end near a black hole and the other near a planet, and watch as the entire planet is destroyed.

However, I say that the overwhelming gravity of planets/black holes would make generating a wormhole take ludicrous amounts of energy, even by FT standards. Thus, a wormhole can't really be generated near any major cosmic body.

Maybe you could say something similar. Perhaps the warp can't be replicated on something as small as a bomb (I don't know if this would fit with your tech) and would be economically infeasible as just being a weapon device on something as big as a standard ship.

If you want something prohibitive while avoiding "handwaving" it away, maybe just acknowledge that it is theoretically possible, but the action is so morally repugnant to your people that they'd never think of it if it ever came up.

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Postby Auman » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:31 pm

Sunset wrote:You know, I've tried a timeline format before, and it never ends up looking that good. Finally I went back to a short story-line format and that has worked well enough to at least get me a few up-flags. But I remember loving those giant folding multi-page timelines in the history coffee-table books when I was a kid, and that might just be it; A timeline seems to work best for me when there are twists and turns that make it into a story. Tracing that colored line as it merges/emerges and those major events are listed along with what is happening nearby or even around the world was fascinating. If you're willing to give it a go, that might be the way to go. If you have some nearby neighbors or even NPC frien-emies, make something complex that is its own story-line.



Time lines are something that you should have because they're so easy to bang out. You can put a couple of hours in and get three or four hundred years worth of stuff. I banged out a thousand year history of Auman in about seven hours and that was with tons of breaks. You'll have story fodder for a very, very, long time.

You can knock out a time line quickly. Basically it's a repository for all of your ideas, no matter how silly. You can draw upon them and expand them at your leisure. So yeah, I'd suggest you do one and just find stuff that you like and then turn those into full blown stories.
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Postby The Fedral Union » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:15 pm

Auman wrote:
Sunset wrote:You know, I've tried a timeline format before, and it never ends up looking that good. Finally I went back to a short story-line format and that has worked well enough to at least get me a few up-flags. But I remember loving those giant folding multi-page timelines in the history coffee-table books when I was a kid, and that might just be it; A timeline seems to work best for me when there are twists and turns that make it into a story. Tracing that colored line as it merges/emerges and those major events are listed along with what is happening nearby or even around the world was fascinating. If you're willing to give it a go, that might be the way to go. If you have some nearby neighbors or even NPC frien-emies, make something complex that is its own story-line.



Time lines are something that you should have because they're so easy to bang out. You can put a couple of hours in and get three or four hundred years worth of stuff. I banged out a thousand year history of Auman in about seven hours and that was with tons of breaks. You'll have story fodder for a very, very, long time.

You can knock out a time line quickly. Basically it's a repository for all of your ideas, no matter how silly. You can draw upon them and expand them at your leisure. So yeah, I'd suggest you do one and just find stuff that you like and then turn those into full blown stories.


Anything could be considered silly if executed the wrong way; I find it rather easier to work out things as I go in rps and threads rather than trying to stuff everything in to a long timeline or super factbook all at once. But I second what Auman and sunset have to say; addtionaly try to think unconventionally perhaps with a splinter group.

Now my question is to you Auman and some others that might be far removed from "Terra prime"... (used loosely) have you ever considered the ramifications of your humans deviating from homo sapiens via evolution on a new planet that might be earthlike but isn't exactly earth? I've not seen that done much I'm not talking rubber-forehead aliens I'm talking actual evolutionary deviations from baseline humans based on the environments they colonized?

Brings me to another point: would you still consider them human?

(I realize im talking about large time scales but its been proven even in a short amount of time a species and humans can change or evolve or deviate; or at least its theorized it wouldn't take millions of years. For example we now know that ALOT of our own genetic code in rl and through earth animal kingdom history has been impacted by retro-viruses and viral deposits of DNA.)
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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:00 pm

The Fedral Union wrote:
Auman wrote:

Time lines are something that you should have because they're so easy to bang out. You can put a couple of hours in and get three or four hundred years worth of stuff. I banged out a thousand year history of Auman in about seven hours and that was with tons of breaks. You'll have story fodder for a very, very, long time.

You can knock out a time line quickly. Basically it's a repository for all of your ideas, no matter how silly. You can draw upon them and expand them at your leisure. So yeah, I'd suggest you do one and just find stuff that you like and then turn those into full blown stories.


Anything could be considered silly if executed the wrong way; I find it rather easier to work out things as I go in rps and threads rather than trying to stuff everything in to a long timeline or super factbook all at once. But I second what Auman and sunset have to say; addtionaly try to think unconventionally perhaps with a splinter group.

Now my question is to you Auman and some others that might be far removed from "Terra prime"... (used loosely) have you ever considered the ramifications of your humans deviating from homo sapiens via evolution on a new planet that might be earthlike but isn't exactly earth? I've not seen that done much I'm not talking rubber-forehead aliens I'm talking actual evolutionary deviations from baseline humans based on the environments they colonized?

Brings me to another point: would you still consider them human?

(I realize im talking about large time scales but its been proven even in a short amount of time a species and humans can change or evolve or deviate; or at least its theorized it wouldn't take millions of years. For example we now know that ALOT of our own genetic code in rl and through earth animal kingdom history has been impacted by retro-viruses and viral deposits of DNA.)

I'd leave whether they're humans to the player behind them.
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The Fedral Union
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Postby The Fedral Union » Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:05 pm

Well yeah but how would some nations icly react or think about them? Therein lies the question.
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Postby Auman » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:23 pm

I'm trying to cover this concept with my brother in the setting that we are creating, actually. It's an interesting concept that should get more attention than it does, but what ever.

On the planet Earth, the human race has an amazing amount diversity, just in terms of physical appearance alone. It has taken a very long time for our species to deviate in any significant way... I think it is said that it took 25,000 years for the people that left Africa to deviate... And another 25,000 for change between Europeans and Asian peoples. I don't want to get into an argument, this is just information I scooped from IFLS.

Anyway, without serious intervention in the human genome through science or alien radiation waves, I think you would see a similar amount of time having to pass before any major, notable variations from homo sapiens... Since this is FT, that can be easily hand waved.

In the setting that I'm apart of working on, humanity has been marooned on a lot of different worlds for a very long period of time.

The Aumanii and their like, thanks to the compound interest of relativity, are the closest to Earth humans as you are going to get... And several "alien" races will be revealed as offshoots of humanity and/or homo sapiens that have cross bred with compatible and suitably sexy alien species.

Tl;dr It takes a long time to see a difference without mad science or sexy alien girls.
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Postby Excidium Planetis » Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:00 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Excidium Planetis wrote:
Okay, so I have a bit of a dilemma.

I generally try to be hard FT. I don't like to use technology that isn't something that could theoretically exist in the real world (or at least, what couldn't exist based on what I know of the real world). This actually works out fairly well for me.

The problem comes in in the one area where I broke the rules: FTL travel. To explain the exotic matter requirements for the Alcubierre drives we use, I invented a fictional device that can manipulate the mass of objects (thus allowing negative mass). It is quite easy to see how this could be weaponized and abused immensly. I shut down that problem by saying that my government shut down all research into these devices, locked all scientists who had ever worked on them away for life, split the plans into parts, encrypted them, and all new devices are constructed by automated factories. Basically, no living being that currently exists in my nation knows how they work, nor how to make them. We just use them for their intended purpose, use in our FTL drives.

But I still have a problem. The Alcubierre drives themselves are too easily weaponized! Theoretical research has shown that Alcubierre drives pick up mass and energy from space as they travel, which is released when the ship stops warp. Apparently, even for short journeys, it is enough to obliterate whatever is in front of the ship. I have a totally improvised and probably unrealistic solution to this for ordinary FTL travel... but some scientists, particularly ones with a knowledge of our FTL drives, could too easily make a weaponized "warp bomb", a ship which basically just picks up a ton of space stuff and then stops right in front of its target (probably a planet).

I can't really ignore the physics that allows for this, and I can't really outlaw such weapons (partly because we love freedom, and mostly because every single FTL starship could become weaponized).

Do I accept that my nation has weapons far more powerful than our standard military stuff, and possibly in civilian hands? Is there anything that would be a solution to this?

No one knows how the mass manipulation works, so you could just say that a side-effect of it is that it fixes the matter-energy accumulation problem by, say, using it as fuel and expelling it from the warp bubble. Not a perfect solution, but it's slightly harder than just ignoring it, and if no one has access to the blueprints, then they can't weaponize it.


Thanks for the advice everyone. I have decided to go with Diopolis' suggestion, but I'll have to work out some slight problems with it. (Notably, if it requires that much energy to run, how do we even start it up in the first place?)

I don't want to just handwave it away. I could do the "morally reprehensible" thing, but A) I don't believe my citizens are that morally upstanding and B) our culture is based on ensuring our nation's survival above all else (even above individual survival), and having warp bombs definitely helps ensure our survival in wars.
Last edited by Excidium Planetis on Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Genomita
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Postby Genomita » Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:51 pm

This might be a silly question, but what are the odds that the four-armed humans (and later transhumans) that would eventually become the genomitans evolved on a world where all vertebrates evolved with an additional set of limbs because their common amphibian ancestor had six limbs instead of four, and may have survived it's four-legged counterparts due to having tougher skin or otherwise favorable traits?
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Postby The Fedral Union » Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:11 pm

That depends on the environmental factors; and are they alien or humnoid? Human refers to Homo-sapiens spaien... Humanoid is the structure of a body that's similar in construct to a humans.. but not exactly human.

There are a complex set of variables that go in to how your people would genetically modify themselves or how they would evolve; weather genetic manipulation to survive environmental changes without the long wait periods of evolution or just to make "a superior" evolutionary offspring.

Do those extra arms say serve a function like say extra dexterity holding on to things in lieu of a tail that earth primates have? Or are they meant for something else?.

For example my mantoids have two sets of limbs (Foreclaws) and Grasping claws; both as an evolutionary feature and as a result of genetic modding. (Mantoids re extremely similar to mantis shrimp like aliens.. They don't even need PA). Genetics also influences social behaviors as well; im still coming up for the social concepts of my mantoids like say cycling between communal and solitary nature.. But I'll spare you the details..

Back to the question; you have to think of Why?, What do they do? And the environment?.
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Genomita
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Postby Genomita » Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:37 pm

Well, i originally had the Genomitans, who have a long history of genetic modification and bio-augmentation (up to and including traits from native alien fauna to survive in harsh environments) modify themselves to gain extra arms for added utility, such as workers being able to handle their tasks quicker, enabling soldiers to carry more weapons etc, but then I thought "since there are human nations all over the galaxy and they appearantly all came to be independently from another, wouldn't it be possible that the (trans)humans in my nation evolved an additional pair of arms?"

In either case the arms would be identical to the pair they already possessed, though I could easily see them providing extra dexterity when climbing, holding things or defending themselves, among other things.
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