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by Sunset » Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:17 pm
by Neu Engollon » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:55 pm
Sunset wrote:Again, a lot of variables.
The history of the nation will have a huge impact on all three of these things;
It may not need a military. If it is a true corporate state, it could technically exist in the middle of any number of other sovereign states. The citizens are also citizens of other countries who just happen to work for said mega-corporation. If it is itself a true sovereignty, is it an aggressive one? And then there is the question of education, which ties into military.
Dumb People Fight Wars.
Period.
There is a difference between being prepared to defend yourself, and being prepared to invade someone else. Smart people take the long view; Ultimately, an inefficient economic or political system will destroy itself while a more efficient and effective system will sustain itself. So, if your proposed nation values highly educated people, it will likely have a potent but small military that is suited for defense with some kind of backup plan for the occasional Hitler scenario. If it is run by dumb people, it will likely have a large, unwieldy military that has a large role in society.
Now, an effective corporate leadership team will go with the first option; The expense of maintaining the military will be balanced against what it gains the nation, both tangibly and intangibly. But let's just put it this way; MBAs are not generally very good with the idea of intangibles. They want hard numbers and tend to ignore what cannot be precisely quantified. Witness IT spending; Many companies cut their IT departments because they do not seem to be 'producing' anything. This leads to inefficient business practices as their IT infrastructure (which is very important in the modern world) is sub-par to non-existent. But because it cannot be precisely quantified, the MBA-type will see it as unimportant. Until their laptop stops working (because they were surfing porn at work).
So, what is the education like? And what is the source? If the nation exists alongside others (Like in Jennifer Government!) then the education may come from outside. If it's internal, is it driven by an ideology? If so, what?
All of these questions and their answers will have knock-on effects to other parts of the nation and to it's history. So. Variable. History. That's where I would start.
by Roski » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:46 pm
Sunset wrote:Again, a lot of variables.
The history of the nation will have a huge impact on all three of these things;
It may not need a military. If it is a true corporate state, it could technically exist in the middle of any number of other sovereign states. The citizens are also citizens of other countries who just happen to work for said mega-corporation. If it is itself a true sovereignty, is it an aggressive one? And then there is the question of education, which ties into military.
Dumb People Fight Wars.
Period.
There is a difference between being prepared to defend yourself, and being prepared to invade someone else. Smart people take the long view; Ultimately, an inefficient economic or political system will destroy itself while a more efficient and effective system will sustain itself. So, if your proposed nation values highly educated people, it will likely have a potent but small military that is suited for defense with some kind of backup plan for the occasional Hitler scenario. If it is run by dumb people, it will likely have a large, unwieldy military that has a large role in society.
Now, an effective corporate leadership team will go with the first option; The expense of maintaining the military will be balanced against what it gains the nation, both tangibly and intangibly. But let's just put it this way; MBAs are not generally very good with the idea of intangibles. They want hard numbers and tend to ignore what cannot be precisely quantified. Witness IT spending; Many companies cut their IT departments because they do not seem to be 'producing' anything. This leads to inefficient business practices as their IT infrastructure (which is very important in the modern world) is sub-par to non-existent. But because it cannot be precisely quantified, the MBA-type will see it as unimportant. Until their laptop stops working (because they were surfing porn at work).
So, what is the education like? And what is the source? If the nation exists alongside others (Like in Jennifer Government!) then the education may come from outside. If it's internal, is it driven by an ideology? If so, what?
All of these questions and their answers will have knock-on effects to other parts of the nation and to it's history. So. Variable. History. That's where I would start.
by Northern Collectives » Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:04 pm
Roski wrote:Sunset wrote:Again, a lot of variables.
The history of the nation will have a huge impact on all three of these things;
It may not need a military. If it is a true corporate state, it could technically exist in the middle of any number of other sovereign states. The citizens are also citizens of other countries who just happen to work for said mega-corporation. If it is itself a true sovereignty, is it an aggressive one? And then there is the question of education, which ties into military.
Dumb People Fight Wars.
Period.
There is a difference between being prepared to defend yourself, and being prepared to invade someone else. Smart people take the long view; Ultimately, an inefficient economic or political system will destroy itself while a more efficient and effective system will sustain itself. So, if your proposed nation values highly educated people, it will likely have a potent but small military that is suited for defense with some kind of backup plan for the occasional Hitler scenario. If it is run by dumb people, it will likely have a large, unwieldy military that has a large role in society.
Now, an effective corporate leadership team will go with the first option; The expense of maintaining the military will be balanced against what it gains the nation, both tangibly and intangibly. But let's just put it this way; MBAs are not generally very good with the idea of intangibles. They want hard numbers and tend to ignore what cannot be precisely quantified. Witness IT spending; Many companies cut their IT departments because they do not seem to be 'producing' anything. This leads to inefficient business practices as their IT infrastructure (which is very important in the modern world) is sub-par to non-existent. But because it cannot be precisely quantified, the MBA-type will see it as unimportant. Until their laptop stops working (because they were surfing porn at work).
So, what is the education like? And what is the source? If the nation exists alongside others (Like in Jennifer Government!) then the education may come from outside. If it's internal, is it driven by an ideology? If so, what?
All of these questions and their answers will have knock-on effects to other parts of the nation and to it's history. So. Variable. History. That's where I would start.
Can Smart people have a militarized society? Or is this a all x are y
by Sunset » Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:19 pm
by Draica » Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:23 pm
by Roski » Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:49 pm
Sunset wrote:The wording was at least somewhat careful. There are always exceptions to the rule, and I was going for a sharp point rather than a thesis statement. But could, in my opinion, a smart civilization also be a militarized one? Sure.
At that point the question is why and this goes into history and developing your nation.
Sunset would be an example of this particular scenario, to a certain extent. It is not hyper-militarized with tanks on every corner and a senior general on the board of every corporation, but it has a strong military tradition and emphasis on service. The history behind that is important; When NS-RP started out, Mars was one of those go-to planets for a lot of people. Want to expand into space? Mars. Looking for somewhere to lick your military chops? Mars. And since there were a lot of FT RPers on Mars in those days, there was a lot of potential conflict.
Now, then as now, Sunset tended to the long view. A massive military buildup over a single generation would make us secure, but it would also saddle us with either a lot of debt or a budget that was exclusively geared towards war. So while we militarized, we also educated. Education is the single best net-gain a civilization can invest in, because it solves so many future problems before they even become problems. I won't get into the various points there, but it resulted in a culture where aggression is seen as counter-productive compared to diplomacy and looking for that win-win-win-win scenario where everyone benefits. Ideally twice.
The military is there to keep potential opponents from attacking us before diplomacy has a chance to do its job. Or just in case it doesn't. As much as I'd like to hope otherwise, the galaxy seems to be full of people who like to fight just to fight and if we have to beat them down before we show them a better path? Sometimes that happens.
by United Gordonopia » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:07 pm
Draica wrote:Under Emperor Hirohito of Japan his economy was one of the strongest in his day(6th largest economy on the planet when he walked in, amazing military, and 2nd largest economy, still amazing military when he left out).
Doesn't sound like Japan was in a lot of debt to me.
by Draica » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:27 pm
by El Cuscatlan » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:29 pm
by Lompa » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:30 pm
by Yalos » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:46 pm
Lompa wrote:I want to base my political system on medieval Iceland, but I also want to participate in war RPs. How could a stateless society fight off invaders.
Also could I have the president as a ceremonial figurehead. He has no real power, he just represents the nation.
by Questers » Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:07 pm
Japan is the perfect example of what Sunset is talking about. It spends only a fraction on defence but because its GDP is so large it translates to a large expenditure.Draica wrote:Under Emperor Hirohito of Japan his economy was one of the strongest in his day(6th largest economy on the planet when he walked in, amazing military, and 2nd largest economy, still amazing military when he left out).
Doesn't sound like Japan was in a lot of debt to me.
by Draica » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:22 pm
by Irav » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:56 pm
by Roski » Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:33 pm
Irav wrote:How would 21th century privateering work out for a nation like me?
They would recieve government funding and maybe have frigates or destroyers for them to use.
by United Gordonopia » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:12 pm
Irav wrote:How would 21th century privateering work out for a nation like me?
They would recieve government funding and maybe have frigates or destroyers for them to use.
by Serrian » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:20 pm
North Arkana wrote:NS's native tech wanker
by Kylarnatia » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:38 pm
Serrian wrote:Hi guys, quick question.
Would this be considered PMT tech or FT? If PMT, early or late?
http://www.nationstates.net/nation=serr ... /id=309930
The Ancient Empire of Kylarnatia // Imperium Antiquum KylarnatiaeI write mostly in PMT-FaNT, and I enjoy worldbuilding and storytelling. Any questions? Ask away!
Lord of Gholgoth | Factbook (Work in Progress) | Embassy & Consulate Programme
"Kylarnatia is a rare Nile platypus." - Kyrusia
by Yalos » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:51 pm
Draica wrote:How would one play a leader simillar to Napoleon Bonaparte in terms of leadership and Military stradegy?
What, in your mind. would a theocracy that praises Hades(the greek god) would be like? Would they be the more invasive type?
by Vancouvia » Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:47 pm
by Vancon » Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:49 pm
Vancouvia wrote:For RP, is it better to have your nation exist on Earth? By better I mean more likely for that to fit in with the majority of RP scenarios. I originally conceived of my nation not necessarily existing on Earth, but the map I created looks almost exactly like a peninsula of Alaska (which fits with my culture and geography), so should I put that in as canon?
Mike the Progressive wrote:You know I don't say this often, but this guy... he gets it. Like everything. As in he gets life.
Krazakistan wrote:How have you not died after being exposed to that much shit on a monthly basis?
Rupudska wrote:I avoid NSG like one would avoid ISIS-occupied Syria.
Alimeria- wrote:I'll go to sleep when I want to, not when some cheese-eating surrender monkey tells me to.
Which just so happens to be within the next half-hour
Shyluz wrote:Van, Sci-fi Generallisimo
by Vancouvia » Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:58 pm
Vancon wrote:Vancouvia wrote:For RP, is it better to have your nation exist on Earth? By better I mean more likely for that to fit in with the majority of RP scenarios. I originally conceived of my nation not necessarily existing on Earth, but the map I created looks almost exactly like a peninsula of Alaska (which fits with my culture and geography), so should I put that in as canon?
Do what you want. There is no denying that it would make your life easy when applying for RPs.
by Vancon » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:05 pm
Mike the Progressive wrote:You know I don't say this often, but this guy... he gets it. Like everything. As in he gets life.
Krazakistan wrote:How have you not died after being exposed to that much shit on a monthly basis?
Rupudska wrote:I avoid NSG like one would avoid ISIS-occupied Syria.
Alimeria- wrote:I'll go to sleep when I want to, not when some cheese-eating surrender monkey tells me to.
Which just so happens to be within the next half-hour
Shyluz wrote:Van, Sci-fi Generallisimo
by The Macabees » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:08 pm
Vancouvia wrote:For RP, is it better to have your nation exist on Earth? By better I mean more likely for that to fit in with the majority of RP scenarios. I originally conceived of my nation not necessarily existing on Earth, but the map I created looks almost exactly like a peninsula of Alaska (which fits with my culture and geography), so should I put that in as canon?
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