A Changing World (OPEN, MT, ATTEN: Reformed Britannia)

[Salzland]

OOC: Well, Nitom, if you're not willing to negotiate on Britannian soil, where do you want to negotiate? ICly, my government will be backing Britannia to host.

Before you answer, I will add that if anywhere in the Alliance of Grand Powers is chosen (including its members' puppet nations), any delegate that I send will be accompanied by a significant portion of my nation's navy and ballistic missile submarine forces, with their fingers on the buttons ready to launch on a moment's notice.

[Nitom]

ooc: I would be willing to have it on some nuetral island in between our two nations.

[Katonazag]

[OOC: Unless the spaceplane strike is being retconned, the HCSK will want to have someone official present, even if not exactly participating. If it is retconned, I have no reason to participate.]

[Alexiandra]

OOC: Well, Nitom, if you're not willing to negotiate on Britannian soil, where do you want to negotiate? ICly, my government will be backing Britannia to host.

Before you answer, I will add that if anywhere in the Alliance of Grand Powers is chosen (including its members' puppet nations), any delegate that I send will be accompanied by a significant portion of my nation's navy and ballistic missile submarine forces, with their fingers on the buttons ready to launch on a moment's notice.

And if your forces make a move of hostile action towards the AGP, whom I would like to remind you have remained kindly neutral for the duration of this war, the entire Alexiandran military will retaliate. We have done nothing to warrant such threats.

[Salzland]

OOC: Well, Nitom, if you're not willing to negotiate on Britannian soil, where do you want to negotiate? ICly, my government will be backing Britannia to host.

Before you answer, I will add that if anywhere in the Alliance of Grand Powers is chosen (including its members' puppet nations), any delegate that I send will be accompanied by a significant portion of my nation's navy and ballistic missile submarine forces, with their fingers on the buttons ready to launch on a moment's notice.

And if your forces make a move of hostile action towards the AGP, whom I would like to remind you have remained kindly neutral for the duration of this war, the entire Alexiandran military will retaliate. We have done nothing to warrant such threats.

OOC: It seems that I didn't clarify that at this stage Nitom would be the target of any military actions that I take (since, after all, he's the one that I'm currently at war with). If there was some misunderstanding, then please forgive me (it's finals week, after all), but in all honesty there are only two reasons why I haven't already nuked Nitom. First, because RB has asked me to support the peace conference for as long as the conference is a practical solution to this, which I will do. Second, because I'm waiting for an IC post before I can do anything further one way or the other.

This really shouldn't come as a surprise, because I've mentioned the possibility of launching a nuclear strike against Nitom in at least two of my IC posts (without going back to review them in-depth to see if there are more mentions), and there have been several OOC posts asking for Nitom to clarify his posts and verify that he is pursuing the course of action that several posters (including myself) think that he's pursuing. Specifically, that he's in the process of launching a nuclear attack against me. Which is something that I plan on retaliating against ICly, unless this peace conference develops in the very near IC future (as in, before my President orders the button pressed), and the conference is held in a territory where Nitom's military forces are unable to strike it, a territory belonging to a nation that has been wronged as a result of Nitom's actions. A nation such as Britannia.

As far as I can see it, that's where this thread is at right now. ICly, my nation stated its peace conditions publicly in my very first IC post here, and they're all entirely reasonable. I mean, admitting defeat and ceasing hostilities, paying monetary compensation for the attacks and turning over the individuals responsible? Not exactly a crushing burden on Nitom. Of course, now that there are nukes in the air there will be additional conditions from my government (Nitom eliminating its nuclear and space weapons programs and existing stockpiles under international monitoring and verification), but again, under the circumstances not exactly unwarranted to require. That's it, as far as I'm concerned. Whether Britannia will ask for different conditions is something for him to decide.

The other alternative is that I finish writing my nuclear launch post, and we go from there. That's really all that I can do at this point, with nukes in the air.

[Alexiandra]

And if your forces make a move of hostile action towards the AGP, whom I would like to remind you have remained kindly neutral for the duration of this war, the entire Alexiandran military will retaliate. We have done nothing to warrant such threats.

OOC: It seems that I didn't clarify that at this stage Nitom would be the target of any military actions that I take (since, after all, he's the one that I'm currently at war with). If there was some misunderstanding, then please forgive me (it's finals week, after all), but in all honesty there are only two reasons why I haven't already nuked Nitom. First, because RB has asked me to support the peace conference for as long as the conference is a practical solution to this, which I will do. Second, because I'm waiting for an IC post before I can do anything further one way or the other.

This really shouldn't come as a surprise, because I've mentioned the possibility of launching a nuclear strike against Nitom in at least two of my IC posts (without going back to review them in-depth to see if there are more mentions), and there have been several OOC posts asking for Nitom to clarify his posts and verify that he is pursuing the course of action that several posters (including myself) think that he's pursuing. Specifically, that he's in the process of launching a nuclear attack against me. Which is something that I plan on retaliating against ICly, unless this peace conference develops in the very near IC future (as in, before my President orders the button pressed), and the conference is held in a territory where Nitom's military forces are unable to strike it, a territory belonging to a nation that has been wronged as a result of Nitom's actions. A nation such as Britannia.

As far as I can see it, that's where this thread is at right now. ICly, my nation stated its peace conditions publicly in my very first IC post here, and they're all entirely reasonable. I mean, admitting defeat and ceasing hostilities, paying monetary compensation for the attacks and turning over the individuals responsible? Not exactly a crushing burden on Nitom. Of course, now that there are nukes in the air there will be additional conditions from my government (Nitom eliminating its nuclear and space weapons programs and existing stockpiles under international monitoring and verification), but again, under the circumstances not exactly unwarranted to require. That's it, as far as I'm concerned. Whether Britannia will ask for different conditions is something for him to decide.

The other alternative is that I finish writing my nuclear launch post, and we go from there. That's really all that I can do at this point, with nukes in the air.

OOC: How about this:


Both Nitom and RB's allies agree to stand down their nuclear assets
Nitomian and RB DEFCON levels are lowered
Nitom agrees to stay out of military action against RB

If the nukes start flying at the AGP we will have no choice but to shoot them down, maybe even counterattack. A nuclear attack on Nitom would kill millions of innocent citizens in other bordering AGP states and cause a massive reaction from the entire region's military capability. Allies would be called in and raids on Salzland would have to be considered

[Obamacain]

OOC (I hate how we are cluttering this up with OOC but whatever):
@Alex
1. I think what he meant by that threat was that he didn't want Nitom trying anything funny at the conference or he would retaliate, not that he would blatantly fire on Nitom
and
2. The only way it could kill milliions of people in neighboring nations would be if somehow Salzland's missiles were the most inaccurate in the world or by radiation. If by the latter, it would be rather unnecessary to start a war since there is no way radiation can kill millions with proper containment...but if you wish to start a war that is fine. Just be aware that it would be likely for myself to ally with Salzland

[Alexiandra]

OOC (I hate how we are cluttering this up with OOC but whatever):
@Alex
1. I think what he meant by that threat was that he didn't want Nitom trying anything funny at the conference or he would retaliate, not that he would blatantly fire on Nitom
and
2. The only way it could kill milliions of people in neighboring nations would be if somehow Salzland's missiles were the most inaccurate in the world or by radiation. If by the latter, it would be rather unnecessary to start a war since there is no way radiation can kill millions with proper containment...but if you wish to start a war that is fine. Just be aware that it would be likely for myself to ally with Salzland

I'm not starting a war. I'm just saying that if Salzland fired presumably dozens of its nuclear warheads into Nitom it would simply ruin the Alliance of Grand Powers. We would not allow it.

[Salzland]

OOC: And I'm simply stating that I'm not going to sit back and let Nitom drop nukes out of his spaceships (which will, incidentally, have the exact same consequences to Nova as my retalitory strikes would have to the Alliance of Grand Powers region, except obviously on a much smaller scale with regard to Nova) without firing nukes of my own right back at him. So, there we have it, I guess.

[Alexiandra]

OOC: And I'm simply stating that I'm not going to sit back and let Nitom drop nukes out of his spaceships (which will, incidentally, have the exact same consequences to Nova as my retalitory strikes would have to the Alliance of Grand Powers region, except obviously on a much smaller scale with regard to Nova) without firing nukes of my own right back at him. So, there we have it, I guess.

If I get Nitom to stop planning nuclear attacks on Nova, will you agree to deactivate your nuclear missile launching systems?

[Salzland]

OOC: I can't do anything either way until I know whether I've got 90 live nuclear missiles, 30 dead space planes or some combination of the two overhead. Presuming that the planes and missiles are shot down (which, given the combination of ordinance fired at them and my OOC preference for settling this with a peace conference in line with RB's wishes, is a safe presumption), there'll be a brief IC window to have both sides agree to hold a peace conference, which is what I'm trying to push for now (getting the peace conference scheduled before I have to push the button). Because, as I mentioned earlier, the only things I can do ICly after my country has been attacked with nuclear weapons are to shoot back or settle the matter at a (very hastily arranged) peace conference, called before I have the opportunity to shoot back.

My nation's government would not be willing to accept a conference held in Nitom (for obvious reasons), or anywhere near Nitom because of Nitom's history of attacking civilian targets (see, the opening posts of this thread), including civilian targets with high political values. Especially after a nuclear attack (even an unsuccessful one), my government is going to be on edge, because my civilian society is going to be approaching a state of collapse. The Salzland government won't be trusting anything even remotely associated with Nitom, and they are going to push hard to have Britannia host the conference because it not only gives RB the prestiege of hosting, but sends the political message that RB was victorious and therefore will be negotiating from the stronger position. Basically, Nitom should be agreeing to this conference because his government has realized that launching a nuclear first strike was a terrible idea (on top of the terrible idea of starting the war in the first place), and that ending the war before his country is destroyed would be a very good idea.

Until there's a signed peace treaty and my government ICly independently verifies Nitom's compliance with the treaty, my government could not rationally pursue any option other than keeping the military (and the strategic nuclear arsenal) on maximum alert. Again, with nuclear weapons already being launched at my country, doing anything other than maintaining maximum alert status until the verified end of hostilities would be an act of utter insanity. As of Nitom's last IC post, there are still something along the lines of 500 more spaceships heading toward my country, presumably also armed with nuclear weapons. Those spaceships literally represent the point of no return. Once they enter weapons range of my country, my government won't have any choice left but to launch a nuclear strike against Nitom.

To close, I really can't do anything ICly until I have something In Character to work with. Either there's going to be a (successful) peace conference, or there's going to be a nuclear war. Those are the only two options left, without major retconing, once a nuclear attack is underway.

[Gibet]

OOC: Gibet will not accept a peace without some-form of return of Gibetan territory taken by Nitom in the First Gibetan-Nitomian Conflict. Otherwise, we shall continue our war against them with, or without, you.

[Reformed Britannia]

OOC:I basically agree with everything Salz just posted. The fact is that after the war moved into weapons satellite territory it wasn't going to be long before things went nuclear anyway. ICly my government would definitely not be willing to hold negotiations on AoGP soil since they're affiliated with Nitom, and would prefer if negotiations were conducted in Britannian territory.
My government would also be looking to end the war in a symbolic manner, preferably by negotiating a treaty in Kensington-where the whole cause of the war, i.e. the terrorist attack, took root.

My government would also be unlikely to accept a request to stand down nuclear assets primarily due to the fact that they just don't trust Nitom, especially after a terrorist attack like the one which started all this. Same thing goes for lowering the DEFCON level, and as for Nitom agreeing not to attack Britannia, that seems more like a constituent part of a peace treaty rather than a peace treaty by itself, considering the attacks that have taken place against Britannia.

[Katonazag]

[OOC: Because of the prevailing winds, radiation from any nuclear strike on Salzland will fall on the HCSK. Any N/B/C strike on Salzland is by geographical default an attack on the HCSK. If the nuclear strike on Salzland is to ICly come to pass, the HCSK has no choice but to also respond in kind with nuclear force. As with what Salz said, we need IC responses to our handling of the initial spaceplane strike, and subsequently canonization or retcon of the second wave before we can ICly proceed.]

[Alexiandra]

So in essence Salzland, instead of targeting military installations in Nitom with tactical nukes, will use strategic nukes to kill millions of AGP citizens instead? I can't let that happen. I'm sorry but if nuclear weapons are fired at the AoGP, we will retaliate. I will attempt to stop Nitom's bombing of Nova.

[Salzland]

OOC: I don't, in fact, recall ever stating that I was going to do anything in my first strike other than hit military targets (which, just to clarify, is what I'm going to do. Once retalitory nukes start hitting my cities though, all bets are off). Yes, I made a general statement that I would blow Nitom off the face of the Earth, but that's to be expected once he retaliates against my strike by (presumably) blowing up my cities. Alternatively, by wiping out his military, I could just as easily mean that he's getting invaded. Which I'm thinking about doing.

As far as weapons scale goes, I'm going to be firing back nuclear weapons in the same scale range (~200 kilotons per warhead, give or take a bit) as the weapons Nitom's firing at me, if not smaller. After all, since he's attacking my own strategic nuclear forces, he'll be needing to use high-yield weapons to punch through the protective silos and destroy multiple ICBMs per hit. Which, given that the entire purpose of his strike was to ensure that (paraphrased) "Nitom survived MAD," is a safe presumption, I think.

That being said, I will definitely be firing more nuclear weapons back at Nitom than he fired at me. A lot more. Unfortunately, because of the way fallout works, there's going to be spillover into neighboring nations. Not to mention the high-altitude nuclear detonations I'm going to use to blanket the area surrounding Nitom in electromagnetic interference, effectively blinding any radars and any space-based systems (including, but not limited to satellite observation, communications and military satellites) until the interference disperses. Also known as, in the vernacular, 'Electromagnetic Pulses.' There shouldn't be any detonations close enough to permanently disable anything in any country not directly bordering Nitom, but it's going to suck for anyone in the region trying to use a radar or radio (including cell phones, etcetera) for a half hour or so. Those countries bordering Nitom, well, there's no way to really dress it up. It's going to suck to live there for the next few years. Citizens of the neighboring nations might want to start stocking up on things like antibiotics, iodine pills, dehydrated food and drinking water. Maybe batteries too, if they have enough spare parts and skill with electronics to begin repairing the blown-out circuits in any electronic device not surrounded by a Farraday Cage.

Which would actually be a great motivator for Nitom's neighbors to pressure him to come to the negotiating table, come to think of it. "Gee, maybe we ought to pressure Nitom to surrender before its nuclear first strikes come back to bite us all in the posterior," would likely be an appropriate thought for heads of state in the region, especially countries sharing a border with Nitom. After all, I'm sure they would be able to comprehend the consequences of a neighboring state launching a full-scale, unprovoked nuclear assault against another country. Especially a country that retains the capacity to respond in kind.

If it turns out that some rulers instead decide to drag their nations onto the funeral pyre alongside the Nitomian military, well, that's their choice. I certainly have enough nuclear weapons to accomodate them, and enough allies ready, willing and able to pick up any scraps that are left behind.

Which reminds me, the Nitomian positions in Gibet are next on the "To be bombed to hell" list, should hostilities continue. No sense leaving a massive enemy military formation intact and in the field, after all. I'll only be using conventional ordinance to hit targets there though, because it doesn't strike me as especially fair toward Gibet to use anything else.

So, like everything in life, it all comes down to a choice. On one hand, Nitom can choose to (ICly) say that his country is sorry, pay a (comparative) slap on the wrist in compensation to the Britannians, scrap his Klingon Birds of Prey and his nuclear arsenal, and turn over the people who decided that it would be a good idea to start killing Britannian civilians. On the other hand, boom.

That's where we stand at this point.

[Alexiandra]

OOC: I don't, in fact, recall ever stating that I was going to do anything in my first strike other than hit military targets (which, just to clarify, is what I'm going to do. Once retalitory nukes start hitting my cities though, all bets are off). Yes, I made a general statement that I would blow Nitom off the face of the Earth, but that's to be expected once he retaliates against my strike by (presumably) blowing up my cities. Alternatively, by wiping out his military, I could just as easily mean that he's getting invaded. Which I'm thinking about doing.

As far as weapons scale goes, I'm going to be firing back nuclear weapons in the same scale range (~200 kilotons per warhead, give or take a bit) as the weapons Nitom's firing at me, if not smaller. After all, since he's attacking my own strategic nuclear forces, he'll be needing to use high-yield weapons to punch through the protective silos and destroy multiple ICBMs per hit. Which, given that the entire purpose of his strike was to ensure that (paraphrased) "Nitom survived MAD," is a safe presumption, I think.

That being said, I will definitely be firing more nuclear weapons back at Nitom than he fired at me. A lot more. Unfortunately, because of the way fallout works, there's going to be spillover into neighboring nations. Not to mention the high-altitude nuclear detonations I'm going to use to blanket the area surrounding Nitom in electromagnetic interference, effectively blinding any radars and any space-based systems (including, but not limited to satellite observation, communications and military satellites) until the interference disperses. Also known as, in the vernacular, 'Electromagnetic Pulses.' There shouldn't be any detonations close enough to permanently disable anything in any country not directly bordering Nitom, but it's going to suck for anyone in the region trying to use a radar or radio (including cell phones, etcetera) for a half hour or so. Those countries bordering Nitom, well, there's no way to really dress it up. It's going to suck to live there for the next few years. Citizens of the neighboring nations might want to start stocking up on things like antibiotics, iodine pills, dehydrated food and drinking water. Maybe batteries too, if they have enough spare parts and skill with electronics to begin repairing the blown-out circuits in any electronic device not surrounded by a Farraday Cage.

Which would actually be a great motivator for Nitom's neighbors to pressure him to come to the negotiating table, come to think of it. "Gee, maybe we ought to pressure Nitom to surrender before its nuclear first strikes come back to bite us all in the posterior," would likely be an appropriate thought for heads of state in the region, especially countries sharing a border with Nitom. After all, I'm sure they would be able to comprehend the consequences of a neighboring state launching a full-scale, unprovoked nuclear assault against another country. Especially a country that retains the capacity to respond in kind.

If it turns out that some rulers instead decide to drag their nations onto the funeral pyre alongside the Nitomian military, well, that's their choice. I certainly have enough nuclear weapons to accomodate them, and enough allies ready, willing and able to pick up any scraps that are left behind.

Which reminds me, the Nitomian positions in Gibet are next on the "To be bombed to hell" list, should hostilities continue. No sense leaving a massive enemy military formation intact and in the field, after all. I'll only be using conventional ordinance to hit targets there though, because it doesn't strike me as especially fair toward Gibet to use anything else.

So, like everything in life, it all comes down to a choice. On one hand, Nitom can choose to (ICly) say that his country is sorry, pay a (comparative) slap on the wrist in compensation to the Britannians, scrap his Klingon Birds of Prey and his nuclear arsenal, and turn over the people who decided that it would be a good idea to start killing Britannian civilians. On the other hand, boom.

That's where we stand at this point.

So basically you're trying to intimidate the Alliance of Grand Powers into surrendering one of its members to you, and threatening us with nuclear apocalypse if we don't? Jeez, what'd we ever do to you? We've remained absolutely peaceful throughout this, and you're gonna irradiate our region and pretty much destroy our ability to RP sensibly anymore? We literally won't be able to do anything if all our electronics are down, our entire population is dead, and our government is non-existent. I don't see why the AGP has to surrender here when we haven't actually played any part in the military side of this war.

[Alexiandra]

Couldn't you just shoot down these spaceships (thought this was MT anyway ) and then launch bombing raids on Nitom?

[Salzland]

Couldn't you just shoot down these spaceships (thought this was MT anyway ) and then launch bombing raids on Nitom?

OOC: I'm trying to, as are others. As a comparison, there have been enough munitions fired at the Nitomian spaceships, before they even entered Novan aerospace, to have knocked out the majority, if not the entirety of the United States' entire ICBM arsenal. At its Cold War peak. So far, all of that has been 100% ineffective.

For the sake of the RP, I've been treating them as glorified military Space Shuttles. So, with computer and software upgrades, hull reinforcements, etcetera, a payload bay loaded with MIRVs and running at approximately $3-$4 billion a piece. Just to keep things moving.

As for bombing Nitom, that wouldn't work. For one, it would likely take days of flight time for my heavy bombers to reach Nitom. They'd have no escorts, and if Nitom has anything approaching a first-world air defense grid (and I mean real world, United States-esque air defense grid), he'll pick the bombers up right about the time they reach maximum weapons range of his coastline. In order to hit anything remotely valuable, in other words, I'll be sacrificing hundreds of lives and hundreds of billions of dollars worth of bombers just to get into weapons range.

In the mean time, there are 530 Nitomian spaceships in the air. Five hundred and thirty. Each one (as far as I am aware) is carrying at least three nuclear weapons. Those are all in the air, right now, heading toward my country. This is all that I know ICly, and this is all that I know OOCly.

OOC: I don't, in fact, recall ever stating that I was going to do anything in my first strike other than hit military targets (which, just to clarify, is what I'm going to do. Once retalitory nukes start hitting my cities though, all bets are off). Yes, I made a general statement that I would blow Nitom off the face of the Earth, but that's to be expected once he retaliates against my strike by (presumably) blowing up my cities. Alternatively, by wiping out his military, I could just as easily mean that he's getting invaded. Which I'm thinking about doing.

As far as weapons scale goes, I'm going to be firing back nuclear weapons in the same scale range (~200 kilotons per warhead, give or take a bit) as the weapons Nitom's firing at me, if not smaller. After all, since he's attacking my own strategic nuclear forces, he'll be needing to use high-yield weapons to punch through the protective silos and destroy multiple ICBMs per hit. Which, given that the entire purpose of his strike was to ensure that (paraphrased) "Nitom survived MAD," is a safe presumption, I think.

That being said, I will definitely be firing more nuclear weapons back at Nitom than he fired at me. A lot more. Unfortunately, because of the way fallout works, there's going to be spillover into neighboring nations. Not to mention the high-altitude nuclear detonations I'm going to use to blanket the area surrounding Nitom in electromagnetic interference, effectively blinding any radars and any space-based systems (including, but not limited to satellite observation, communications and military satellites) until the interference disperses. Also known as, in the vernacular, 'Electromagnetic Pulses.' There shouldn't be any detonations close enough to permanently disable anything in any country not directly bordering Nitom, but it's going to suck for anyone in the region trying to use a radar or radio (including cell phones, etcetera) for a half hour or so. Those countries bordering Nitom, well, there's no way to really dress it up. It's going to suck to live there for the next few years. Citizens of the neighboring nations might want to start stocking up on things like antibiotics, iodine pills, dehydrated food and drinking water. Maybe batteries too, if they have enough spare parts and skill with electronics to begin repairing the blown-out circuits in any electronic device not surrounded by a Farraday Cage.

Which would actually be a great motivator for Nitom's neighbors to pressure him to come to the negotiating table, come to think of it. "Gee, maybe we ought to pressure Nitom to surrender before its nuclear first strikes come back to bite us all in the posterior," would likely be an appropriate thought for heads of state in the region, especially countries sharing a border with Nitom. After all, I'm sure they would be able to comprehend the consequences of a neighboring state launching a full-scale, unprovoked nuclear assault against another country. Especially a country that retains the capacity to respond in kind.

If it turns out that some rulers instead decide to drag their nations onto the funeral pyre alongside the Nitomian military, well, that's their choice. I certainly have enough nuclear weapons to accomodate them, and enough allies ready, willing and able to pick up any scraps that are left behind.

Which reminds me, the Nitomian positions in Gibet are next on the "To be bombed to hell" list, should hostilities continue. No sense leaving a massive enemy military formation intact and in the field, after all. I'll only be using conventional ordinance to hit targets there though, because it doesn't strike me as especially fair toward Gibet to use anything else.

So, like everything in life, it all comes down to a choice. On one hand, Nitom can choose to (ICly) say that his country is sorry, pay a (comparative) slap on the wrist in compensation to the Britannians, scrap his Klingon Birds of Prey and his nuclear arsenal, and turn over the people who decided that it would be a good idea to start killing Britannian civilians. On the other hand, boom.

That's where we stand at this point.

So basically you're trying to intimidate the Alliance of Grand Powers into surrendering one of its members to you, and threatening us with nuclear apocalypse if we don't? Jeez, what'd we ever do to you? We've remained absolutely peaceful throughout this, and you're gonna irradiate our region and pretty much destroy our ability to RP sensibly anymore? We literally won't be able to do anything if all our electronics are down, our entire population is dead, and our government is non-existent. I don't see why the AGP has to surrender here when we haven't actually played any part in the military side of this war.

Let me try this again, being as clear as I possibly can be.

1.) Nitom is in the process of launching a massive nuclear attack against me.

2.) ICly, my government thinks that is bad.

3.) ICly, my neighbors and my allies think that is bad.

4.) ICly, my government and my neighbors are preparing for a massive humanitarian crisis with hundreds of millions of people heading for the borders, in anticipation of over one thousand nuclear weapons landing in my country in the very near future.

5.) Just one nuclear weapon hitting my country would be bad.

6.) ICly, my government is expecting that tens of thousands of people are going to be killed in the evacuation efforts alone, and that at minimum tens of millions of lives are going to be lost if these nuclear weapons hit, in my country and in others throughout Nova.

7.) ICly, my government needs a very good reason to not destroy Nitom's military capabilities while my military still has the capability to do so.

8.) ICly, my government hasn't gotten that very good reason yet.

9.) ICly, my government has absolutely no way of knowing whether the spaceship nuclear strike is just the first wave.

10.) OOCly, I have no idea whether the spaceship nuclear strike is just the first wave.

So, OOCly, no, I do not want this to become a nuclear war. Why? Because winning a nuclear war is boring. I get to use all of the fancy anti-ballistic missile toys that I spent months cooking up, sure, but then they just get copied (generally poorly) on the other side, and it ends up being a lame, RP-killing mess that concludes with the loser basically saying, "The missiles crossed paths in orbit and everything blew up, the end, IGNORE." Outside of the dedicated roleplaying regions, which are generally able to handle nuclear war in a more-realistic manner, nuclear war is the NS equivalent of throwing the checkers board when you start losing.

Also, no, I am not trying to blow up your entire region, or say that you all cannot play the game anymore, or trying to become your new overlord. I'm simply trying to lay out a clear cause-and-effect explanation of what's going to happen when these nuclear weapons start getting through my defenses and turn my region into a disaster zone. For example, Cause: Nitom hits my country with nuclear weapons. Effect: My country launches a boatload of nuclear weapons right back at Nitom.

From the very beginning, I have made my conditions (not RB's, but mine) for peace with Nitom very clear. Those conditions have changed, now that there is a nuclear war that is seemingly about to start, but there are still peace conditions on the table. Entirely reasonable conditions, given the circumstances, I might add. My government is not asking for Nitom to give up territory, or for it to become a democracy, or for it to become my nation's slave. My government is asking for Nitom to stop the war that it started, is asking for the people who were responsible for murdering civilians to be turned over to face justice, is asking that a pittance be paid in compensation to the families of the dead civilians, and is asking that Nitom's nuclear weapons and the spaceships, which were used to conduct an unprovoked nuclear first strike, be decommissioned. That's. It. I'm not even asking that Occupied Gibet be liberated (mostly because, ICly, they're dirty Nazis, but still).

Nitom has started a war with Reformed Britannia, by setting off several hundred pounds of plastic explosives in RB's capital city during a special forces operation and killing a bunch of civilians, including government figures. I hope that that much can be agreed upon OOCly. Essentially, in other words, that the first post in this thread started the war. ICly, my government has declared war in order to defend Britannia from further aggression. Nitom, in response, has launched a nuclear attack against me. I hope that those statements can also be agreed upon, OOCly.

By launching a nuclear attack against me, Nitom has prompted a response from my government. Nitom has also prompted a response from several of the nations of Nova, who are all going to be affected by this attack in one way or another. Their people are going to die as a result of Nitom's attacks, just like mine will. I hope that it can be agreed OOCly that the other nations of Nova were neutral and not involved in this conflict prior to Nitom's nuclear attack.

So, I hope that this helps to explain where I am coming from. Nitom is launching a massive nuclear attack on my country, which is going to impact a significant portion of Nova, all of whom (except my nation) were uninvolved in this war. A lot of people are going to die in Nova as a result of these nuclear attacks, including my citizens and others' citizens. Because of that, Nitom's military is going to be nuked back to the Stone Age unless he gets his nation out of this war very quickly. Why? Because a bunch of nations are ICly very angry at his country, and they are going to nuke him in response to his country's dumping radioactive fallout all over the region, disrupting shipping lines and regional commerce, causing a massive humanitarian crisis that other countries in Nova will have to deal with and killing thousands, if not millions, of other nations' citizens. Or, they're going to nuke Nitom because he launched a nuclear attack against a treatied ally of theirs, and they are bound to treat such an attack as an attack on their own nations. Feel free to take your pick of the reasons.

Basically, your region's going to get caught in the cross-fire unless the war ends immediately. Just like mine did. The only way the war will end will be with Nitom's surrender, because Nitom started the war, and Nitom turned it into a nuclear war. It sucks, but there it is. That's as honest and realistic an assessment of this entire thread as you can get in one paragraph.

ICly, my government's not going to surrender after some country tried to hit it with enough nukes to wipe my nation off the map. OOCly, I don't think RB's government will either. Therefore, Nitom has to be the one that comes to the table ready to make concessions. Otherwise, my country is going to hit back against Nitom's military while it still has the chance to, with everything it's got. Unless Nitom surrenders.

OOCly speaking, I don't mind if you and the rest of your region refuse to acknowledge any potential nuclear exchange. That's fine. I asked my regionmates to do the same thing. But ICly, my government cannot afford to stand by and let my country be blown up without lifting even a finger to try and stop it, or to try and strike back.

And there's no reason why, ICly, your governments would not be aware of that. It should be common sense that there are consequences to nuclear war. Self-interest should be motivating your region to pressure Nitom into surrender, because not only has Nitom started a nuclear war (not to mention starting the regular old conventional war leading up to the nuclear strike) that's going to bring consequences for your entire region (like mine), but his nation went ahead and escalated things toward a full-scale nuclear exchange knowing that your governments did not want to get involved.

In other words, ICly your countries should be looking at the country that's launching a nuclear assault (Nitom), and asking yourselves whether you want to sit on the sidelines and wait for the inevitable retaliation against Nitom, or whether you want to do something to stop the war from coming back to your own shores. That's just common sense. If you don't want to be involved in something, then get away from it. Hell, attack Nitom yourselves because his government has clearly become unstable (ICly) in that it has started a nuclear war over pride.

Defense clauses, after all, are not suicide clauses. There doesn't have to be a nuclear war, and your region doesn't have to be dragged into defending Nitom. But nothing can happen until there are some IC posts again.

[Nitom]

ooc: I never stated that they were nuclear missles. The spaceplanes were not using nuclear missles. I will agree to the following terms of apeace treaty.

1: We will pay for some repairs of the nations involved.

2: We will stop all hostilities with Britannia.

3: We will hand over all POW's that have been taken. (Including some spies.)

4: We will also stop all hostilities with Nova.

We however will not return any territory to Gibet. They started two wars against us and we took the northern parts of their nation as payment for our losses. (It was around 30 ships and over a million soldiers in the first war.)

If Britannia has a island somewhere away from all the involved nations on either side we will agree to peace talks there.

[Gibet]

Gibetan/Occupied-Gibetan Border

It began as precisely 3:01 AM, Krakow Time. The peacefull and serene night-sky was broken apart by sound of over tthree-thousands various artillery weapons blasting shells of varying explosive power over the border into occupied territory. At this same time, large amounts of Gibetan Luftwaffe aircraft (B-2 Stealth Bombers and the Gibetan Luftwaffe's signature Stealth-SU-47s) began their own involvment in the operation with massive surprise (Most Gibetan aircraft are built with stealth and surprise in-mind; such as the SU-47s we employ having been made of a durable, RADAR-blocking alloy) attacks against Nitomian airfields and key-positions.

Even as the massive air and artillery bombardment continued, the main-attack force moved across the border. The Gibetan force was smaller than the Nitomian, but they were easilly the more experienced of the two. Hopefully, experience would beat numbers. There were three Army-Groups involved in this "invasion"; the 45th, 90th, and 23rd groups; each was then comprised of three to four armies. The total man-power involved was enormous; close to six million combat-troops and their supporting armored divisions. This was the largest undertaking by the Gibetan-Military in over one-hundred years. It had been meticulously planned-out to even the tiniest detail.

It would begin with the 67th, 89th, 12th, and 2nd Wehrmacht Divisions, supported by the 5th and 9th Armored Divisions (comprised mainly of T-90s and T-70s, as well as BMPs) swinging-in to take the city of Hamburg, a strategic manufacturing city, and cut-off Nitomian troops there. Meanwhile, the 56th, 70th, 88th, and 34th Divisions, supported by the 66th S.S. Division ad the 10th and 23rd Armored Divisions, would swing North-West to attack and encircle Guttenburg; a stepping stone before proceeding further-North to help attack Hamburg.



Krakow, Gibet
One-Hour After Opening of Hostilities

Fuhrer Sturmgiest, leader of the Gibetan People, stood before a large rally of close to half-a-million civilians and soldiers. His smile brought cheers from the crowd even as he announced what was happening.

"My people! Sons and daughters of our glorious Fatherland! Today is a day we will not soon forget. For the thrid time in our history, we are at war with the Nitomian aggressors! Even as I speak, millions of our experienced troops are battling hard for Gibetan soil! They are fighting to free our bretheren who were so viley taken without warning from our badly-weakened nation years ago. We will not stop nor waver nor let-up our attacks until we have brought them home! Fight!-Not for me, your Fuhrer. Nor for glory! But fight to free and unite Gibetans together against this threat! Together, we can and will prevail! Even as they have swept over our cities, we will never again endure their agression! Never again endure their oppression! And when our last breath tears at their throats, and we rise again from the ruins of our cities, they will know: Gibet belongs to the GIbetans! I leave you with this:

Do not be afraid of the times ahead. War, as most things, is inevitable. The best that you, the civilians can do is either work here, on the homefront, to supply much needed food, ammo, and equipment; or join your valiant countymen in the defence of Gibet! United as one people, we will bring-about the destruction of a Nitomian-Gibet and a reunification of the Reich! Long live the mighty Gibetan soldier!"

As he ended his speech, thousands of cheers and 'sieg heil's were heard as the excited crowd lept with joy over their Fuhrer's words. However, were they signing-off and a new future or, their death-warrants?

[Alexiandra]

The King sighed. He had been slaving over paperwork all day, constantly distracted by the threat of nuclear apocalypse in Nitom that was looming over his head. He couldn't let millions of people die...but what could he do? He knew that Salzland didn't want to fire off all their nukes at The Alliance of Grand Powers. It was actually the government of Nitom, widely considered an unstable regime, that had caused this crisis. It could be likened to a Mexican Standoff, in a way. If any of the combatants made a decisive move, they would face destruction, and so would everyone else involved. It was a disaster not seen since the annihilation of West Troptopia a year previously. Luckily he had been able to keep the impending showdown under wraps, confiding in only his most trusted advisers and forbidding the press to release details until after the event. If there was going to be an after, that was. Everyone who knew about the possible worst case scenario of thousands of deaths due to radiation, a wrecked economy and a destroyed communications network immediately wished they had never found out. But like all things in life, it was a fact. It couldn't be ignored or put off, because if it was it would mean certain death for millions of people worldwide. The time had come to make a choice...fight or flight. He could either intervene and bring Nitom to the negotiating table, retaliate against Salzland, or simply hide, pray and hope for the best. The latter was not an option for Sevra, though. He had no choice. He would bring Nitom to the table, no matter the cost.

"This is station call-sign Rising, we have locked onto the craft, repeat, we have locked onto the craft.", read the radio operator aboard an Alexiandran satellite missile platform. He threw himself off his chair, taking a second to enjoy the weightless sensation of space. It was marvellous. But he had other matters to attend to. Drifting back to the radio, he listened carefully. "Copy that, Rising. Have you managed to calculate the trajectory of these planes yet?" replied the man at the Alexiandran High Command Centre, Bosworth. "Affirmative, command. We believe the planes will be within striking distance of Salzland within a matter of hours." spoke the radio operator, taking a second to gaze out of the window at the myriad of stars before him. He had always dreamed of being an astronaut as a boy. Now he was living that dream, up here in the Final Frontier. He grinned to himself. Unfortunately for him, however, he was jerked out of his trance by the High Command Operator. "OK, officer, if you are sure that the craft are showing no signs of stopping, you may fire." he said. " Affirmative command. Standby." the astronaut replied. he made sure that the station had a firm lock on the Nitomian planes, armed the missiles he would be using, then paused. He felt guilty. These guys probably had families to look after. But then again, so did he. Fight or flight. He pushed the "fire" button, and glanced out of the window at the missiles now streaking away in a burst of flames. Once the missiles calculated their flight path, it was only a matter of time before they caught up with their targets. ten minutes later, they had almost arrived at their point of impact. They shot across the sky like fireballs... and then they struck.


OOC: hope you understand Nitom... I can't let millions die because of your choices.

[Novikov]

Official Statement of the Novikovian Government

The Novikovian State is alarmed by Holy Empire of Nitom’s blatant aggression against the Commonwealth of Reformed Britannia and the Armed Republic of Salzland. The Holy Empire has sponsored terrorist attacks and targeted civilians with no regard for the Geneva Conventions or International Law. Furthermore, the Holy Empire has now launched a direct attack on the Novan region. Because of the Holy Empire’s record of instability, violence, and state sponsored terrorism, this ability to launch such strikes presents a clear threat to all Novan nations. At this time, all ballistic missile and air defense systems in Novikov and across the United Kingdom stand at heightened alert. Should any craft belonging to the Holy Empire of Nitom cross the sovereign airspace of the United Kingdom, it will be fired upon. Any additional strikes against the Armed Republic of Salzland or any other Novan nation will likewise be met with violence by Oceanian assets across the globe.

At this time, the Novikovian government implores the Holy Empire to cease it’s offensive action and declare a unilateral cease-fire as a show of good faith. We believe that only such action, followed by an opening of diplomatic talks between Nitom and Britannia and her allies will stave off the looming threat of destruction your nation faces. In the hopes of furthering the peace process, the Novikovian government is prepared to offer it’s own territory as a neutral meeting ground from which to conduct negotiations. We pray that the leaders of the Holy Empire will see reason.

On behalf of all the United Kingdom of Oceania,
Secretary of State for Novikov, Alicia Cermak

[Itailian Maifias]

[align=center]

Signores,

The Empire and Her Majesty the Empress were shocked to hear of the Nitom aggresion. Our former allies are becoming more and more hostile this decade and we have no choice but to warn them this could lead to very dangerous paths if it has not already. Reformed Britannia has long stood by our side through our highs and lows and we can not ignore that. As such, the Unified Empire has no choice but to condemn the agressive acts of the Holy Empire of Nitom and has mobilized the 2nd Orange Fleet to just outside Britannian waters.
If a single Britannian soul or any of it's allies souls are harmed, killed or captured, this Empire will bring the weight of it's full wrath down on the Holy Empire

Tread carefully,
Empress Julie Da Vinci
Soveriegn of the Unified Empire of Itailia
Ruler of the Eight Maifias

[Nitom]

Rumek, Nitom

Ethan sat in his office looking at the reports. Gibet had started the third Nitomian-Gibetian war, Alexiandra had attacked Nitomian space-planes, and more and more nations were supporting Britannia. "Tell Britannia we wish to have a cease fire with them, their allies, and the region of Nova. I also want to fire a retaliation attack at Alexiandra and I want more troops sent to Gibet." Ethan said to kegan. "Yes sir." Kegan said as he left Ethans office. Nitom would have a cease fire with Britannia and its allies to keep Nitomian lands and to make sure that Nitom would not turn its cheek to Alexiandra.

Code: Select all

TO: Alexiandra
FROM: The Holy Empire of Nitom

You have attacked our own air craft. This attack will not go unnoticed. We shall have our revenge. We have stood by you countless times, now you attack us. We shall forever know your treason.

Code: Select all

TO: Britannia
FROM: The Holy Empire of Nitom

We would like a cease fire with you, your allies, and the region of Nova.

Nitomian-Gibet

Nitomian air craft that had been patroling the border since the begining of the war began to engage the enemy air craft that they saw. Radar was out in most places but still Nitomian air defenses would still be up and holding the enemy back. Meanwhile, on the ground, troops were moving and HFLMS's we continuesly firing. Nitom would not be defeated. Nitom had fought Gibet two times before and won. They were ready for Gibets invasion.