International Freedom Coalition (OOC, APPS TEMP CLOSED)

[The Predator Federation]

Tg me the link to IFC intervention in Ardoki.

[New Aeyariss]

1. What are the 'Strike Squadrons' exactly?

Paramilitary formations I create out of locals to eliminate the reds.

2. They don't know their thoughts are being oppressed. We are a totalitarian surveillance state run through propaganda, indoctrination, distraction and fear - Almost all citizens are oblivious to their oppression and would lay down their lives for the Great Proletarian Revolution and the Communist Party.

Then all I have is to show them the truth . This would not be hard. I will not speak about it here.

Additionally, a note; you can not change human nature. Totalitarian states can enjoy majority support if they play correctly on some issues; but there will be a serious opposition movement, like there was in III Reich and in USSR. People know when they are being oppressed.

3. Sure, a very very small minority would be aware of their oppression and some of those might wish for vengeance against the Party. However almost all citizens would take arms and fight to the death defending their socialist homeland from the forces of international capitalism and fascism.

No offence - BS.

Study of all LOICs (Low intensity conflicts) portrays that only 15%-17% will actively support armed struggle (spying, sheltering, supplying) and less than 2% will actually fight. Majority will not even care as long as nobody is shooting at them. No level of propaganda can change the human nature. Majority will simply ignore whoever is in power and focus on their affairs.

Additionally, even better for me, since this means that your average soldier will be equipped with a hoe or 17th century musket, dressed in civilian clothes and without any formal training. Military costs, and if you mobilize your entire population, first, your economy will take a backlash from even attempting to supply 1/4 of them, then, each of your soldiers will be of lesser value than a snail on the battlefield - when pinned against much smaller in number but far superior in training and gear Nihonese military, I would gladly enjoy your horde of armed civilians being torn apart.

[Ardoki]

1. What are the 'Strike Squadrons' exactly?

Paramilitary formations I create out of locals to eliminate the reds.

3. Sure, a very very small minority would be aware of their oppression and some of those might wish for vengeance against the Party. However almost all citizens would take arms and fight to the death defending their socialist homeland from the forces of international capitalism and fascism.

No offence - BS.

Study of all LOICs (Low intensity conflicts) portrays that only 15%-17% will actively support armed struggle (spying, sheltering, supplying) and less than 2% will actually fight. Majority will not even care as long as nobody is shooting at them. No level of propaganda can change the human nature. Majority will simply ignore whoever is in power and focus on their affairs.

Additionally, even better for me, since this means that your average soldier will be equipped with a hoe or 17th century musket, dressed in civilian clothes and without any formal training. Military costs, and if you mobilize your entire population, first, your economy will take a backlash from even attempting to supply 1/4 of them, then, each of your soldiers will be of lesser value than a snail on the battlefield - when pinned against much smaller in number but far superior in training and gear Nihonese military, I would gladly enjoy your horde of armed civilians being torn apart.

1. I bet your studies on LOICs do not involve totalitarian states?

2. You don't seem to understand that my state is totalitarian. The Party controls all information our citizens have, and has ideologically indoctrinate them for over a hundred years. Our people only know what the Party tells them, they only know a life with the existence of the omnipresent Party.

[Shazbotdom]

Ardoki,

North Korea is totalitarian, and yet they have an efficient black market, dissidents, and all that jazz.

[Ardoki]

Ardoki,

North Korea is totalitarian, and yet they have an efficient black market, dissidents, and all that jazz.

I'm in the process of copying a source about Stalinist Russia from a history book. I have to go to school now, but I'll have it up this afternoon or tonight.

From previous conversations, I am of the opinion that Nihon is very confident of his Christian faith and believes that religion is natural for humanity and that everyone is inclined toward religion?
What percentage of your population is religious Nihon?

Marxism-Ahearnism is practically a political religion, and the Party and founder are revered as deities.

[New Aeyariss]

1. I bet your studies on LOICs do not involve totalitarian states?

2. You don't seem to understand that my state is totalitarian. The Party controls all information our citizens have, and has ideologically indoctrinate them for over a hundred years. Our people only know what the Party tells them, they only know a life with the existence of the omnipresent Party.

1) They are not "mine" studies, this studies were conducted by military officials, and 2) They taken Ba`athist Iraq (totalitarian state by all means) as a model.

Even Nazi invasion on USSR seen several people living on territory of USSR take arms against soviets ( I do NOT support the Nazis).

And still continuing Ardoki, it does not change a thing. It will make only worse explosion when people realize that they have been brainwashed. "Black Propaganda" works as long as people take it as truth; and it always backfires badly when people realize that they were lied to.

[New Aeyariss]

Also, as a note; It does not change a thing about economical damage caused to your nation by mobilisation of such amount of citizens.

How are you going to supply them? Or just do old soviet "single rifle for two soldiers" and send them to die?

[New Aeyariss]

I'm in the process of copying a source about Stalinist Russia from a history book. I have to go to school now, but I'll have it up this afternoon or tonight.

From previous conversations, I am of the opinion that Nihon is very confident of his Christian faith and believes that religion is natural for humanity and that everyone is inclined toward religion?
What percentage of your population is religious Nihon?

Marxism-Ahearnism is practically a political religion, and the Party and founder are revered as deities.

Ardoki,

To begin with, do not make this about religion. I am Christian. What is from this to you?

1) Religion naturally exists in all societies, but that is not the issue.

Issue is of something else. Human beings naturally know good and evil. And they can distinguish between them.

People do not like being trampled upon, and even if majority will not even be concerned about it, the bigger persecution you create, more people will respond.

And as a note, as person involved in study of IW and PSYOPS - propaganda is easily countered.

For my nation - roughly 78% are religious. Note that Nihon has also minority religions (Shinto being 2nd biggest) and atheism is generally disliked by the population, but not penalised by state in any form.

And as a note; what is source of morality in Ardoki?

[Novo Wagondia]

1. I bet your studies on LOICs do not involve totalitarian states?

2. You don't seem to understand that my state is totalitarian. The Party controls all information our citizens have, and has ideologically indoctrinate them for over a hundred years. Our people only know what the Party tells them, they only know a life with the existence of the omnipresent Party.

1) They are not "mine" studies, this studies were conducted by military officials, and 2) They taken Ba`athist Iraq (totalitarian state by all means) as a model.

Even Nazi invasion on USSR seen several people living on territory of USSR take arms against soviets ( I do NOT support the Nazis).

And still continuing Ardoki, it does not change a thing. It will make only worse explosion when people realize that they have been brainwashed. "Black Propaganda" works as long as people take it as truth; and it always backfires badly when people realize that they were lied to.

I didn't know about that study; how interesting

I also think I see a parallel in the Nazi occupation of France. While there were dedicated and impressive resistance movements, most people were content with just cursing at the Germans under the breath, and there was even a good amount of collaboration

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Naturally, since I take sides on issues not people, I agree on balance of probability with New Aeyariss (OOCly), although it would be nice to see some of these studies.

Ardoki, would there not be any direct trade between our nations?

And also, unless everyone objects, may I send someone to the conference?

[New Aeyariss]

Wait, let me search. It was done by US military, but I will have to search for it, if you do not mind.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Wait, let me search. It was done by US military, but I will have to search for it, if you do not mind.

Not at all. A good detailed debate is almost always worth the time, and this one seems particularly interesting from both a military and philosophical standpoint. And it would be interesting to compare them with Ardoki's source.

Of course, while we might be able to reach an answer for what happens IRL, I don't suppose we need to be too bound by it if it would make the RP worse?

[Krjder]

In terms of how much of his population fights, it really depends on several factors. There would be a huge difference in the amount of armed citizenry I would face invading him than if he were to invade me.

Firstly, how much of his armed forces would still be operational. Citizens would be more inclined to take up arms alongside real soldiers. What's at stake? I'd say that of I were to assault his capital, I would have a lot of armed civilians coming at me, as opposed to simply a minor village in the final stages of occupation. Who's invading? If he were to invade me, my people know he's socialist scum, therefore they wouldn't be happy at all and take up arms because they know their money, faith and livelyhood are at stake. If I invade him, his people, living in desperate poverty as is normal in such states would quickly realise something about my soldiers; they are well fed, relatively cheerful and healthy. They wouldn't fight them. Or few of them would. What are they armed with? If your guys have crap weapons, they will run at the first moments of combat with superior troops. If better armed, they will at least know they have the firepower to take on the enemy. Whether they are able to or not is different.

In short, Ardoki's population, or most of it, would not take up arms against us. Or would run at the sight of our equipment.

[Brytene]

A

Or would run at the sight of our equipment.

I think this is the most accurate response yet

Ardoki has the right to say whatever he likes about his population - if we insist on 100% realism then we would insist that every communist state fails, every extremist state drifts towards centrism or anarchy, every pagan nation converted to Jesus-worship, etc, BUT

The likelihood is that, even if 95% of the population were die-hards ready to take up arms against invaders, they would shatter at the lightest touch and run, save for the odd small bands who turned out to be good at what they did. Just like nowadays in the US, no matter how gung-ho you are and no matter how many Bushmaster rifles you purchased from Wal-Mart, you're gonna run when they send a Predator drone after you.

[Flardania]

A

Or would run at the sight of our equipment.

I think this is the most accurate response yet

Ardoki has the right to say whatever he likes about his population - if we insist on 100% realism then we would insist that every communist state fails, every extremist state drifts towards centrism or anarchy, every pagan nation converted to Jesus-worship, etc, BUT

The likelihood is that, even if 95% of the population were die-hards ready to take up arms against invaders, they would shatter at the lightest touch and run, save for the odd small bands who turned out to be good at what they did. Just like nowadays in the US, no matter how gung-ho you are and no matter how many Bushmaster rifles you purchased from Wal-Mart, you're gonna run when they send a Predator drone after you.

Sound point

[Krjder]

A

Or would run at the sight of our equipment.

I think this is the most accurate response yet

Ardoki has the right to say whatever he likes about his population - if we insist on 100% realism then we would insist that every communist state fails, every extremist state drifts towards centrism or anarchy, every pagan nation converted to Jesus-worship, etc, BUT

The likelihood is that, even if 95% of the population were die-hards ready to take up arms against invaders, they would shatter at the lightest touch and run, save for the odd small bands who turned out to be good at what they did. Just like nowadays in the US, no matter how gung-ho you are and no matter how many Bushmaster rifles you purchased from Wal-Mart, you're gonna run when they send a Predator drone after you.

Thanks for reinforcing my point.

[Inyourfaceistan]

A
I think this is the most accurate response yet

Ardoki has the right to say whatever he likes about his population - if we insist on 100% realism then we would insist that every communist state fails, every extremist state drifts towards centrism or anarchy, every pagan nation converted to Jesus-worship, etc, BUT

The likelihood is that, even if 95% of the population were die-hards ready to take up arms against invaders, they would shatter at the lightest touch and run, save for the odd small bands who turned out to be good at what they did. Just like nowadays in the US, no matter how gung-ho you are and no matter how many Bushmaster rifles you purchased from Wal-Mart, you're gonna run when they send a Predator drone after you.

Thanks for reinforcing my point.

I already said something similar when I was retorting you...

viewtopic.php?p=25618829#p25618829

[Torrumbarry]

A

Or would run at the sight of our equipment.

I think this is the most accurate response yet

Ardoki has the right to say whatever he likes about his population - if we insist on 100% realism then we would insist that every communist state fails, every extremist state drifts towards centrism or anarchy, every pagan nation converted to Jesus-worship, etc, BUT

The likelihood is that, even if 95% of the population were die-hards ready to take up arms against invaders, they would shatter at the lightest touch and run, save for the odd small bands who turned out to be good at what they did. Just like nowadays in the US, no matter how gung-ho you are and no matter how many Bushmaster rifles you purchased from Wal-Mart, you're gonna run when they send a Predator drone after you.

Whilst all of this is very accurate, you should take into account the 'fear factor' of Ardoki's professional forces. What happens when his citizens desert, or refuse to fight? Are they executed, as an example to others? A man knows his chances a better against the enemy than the firing squad. Look at the Defence and Fall of Berlin: green teenagers were fighting alongside the SS. They had witnessed the consequences of desertion, and they were fighting for their own survival. From the Reds and their own twisted government.

Survival instinct trumps...

[Krjder]

Thanks for reinforcing my point.

I already said something similar when I was retorting you...

viewtopic.php?p=25618829#p25618829

I was just expanding/adding on to your point.

[Brytene]

Whilst all of this is very accurate, you should take into account the 'fear factor' of Ardoki's professional forces. What happens when his citizens desert, or refuse to fight? Are they executed, as an example to others? A man knows his chances a better against the enemy than the firing squad. Look at the Defence and Fall of Berlin: green teenagers were fighting alongside the SS. They had witnessed the consequences of desertion, and they were fighting for their own survival. From the Reds and their own twisted government.

Survival instinct trumps...

Very true - the Ardoki government may have lied to them about how evil or vicious invaders may be, or about how bad their soldiers are, and the fear of betraying the government would be heavily ingrained - I imagine that, like Imperial Japan, there would be more small bands of hardliners who stuck around after the initial shock.

[Krjder]

Whilst all of this is very accurate, you should take into account the 'fear factor' of Ardoki's professional forces. What happens when his citizens desert, or refuse to fight? Are they executed, as an example to others? A man knows his chances a better against the enemy than the firing squad. Look at the Defence and Fall of Berlin: green teenagers were fighting alongside the SS. They had witnessed the consequences of desertion, and they were fighting for their own survival. From the Reds and their own twisted government.

Survival instinct trumps...

Very true - the Ardoki government may have lied to them about how evil or vicious invaders may be, or about how bad their soldiers are, and the fear of betraying the government would be heavily ingrained - I imagine that, like Imperial Japan, there would be more small bands of hardliners who stuck around after the initial shock.

This is where my other point comes in. What will his people think when they see our soldiers. His own people; impoverished, starving and demoralised would begin to wonder why our soldiers have such generous rations, why they look healthy, why they seem in good spirits. It would be when we are giving Ardokian children chocolate bars from our ration packs that they realise that they have been lied to.

[Brytene]

This is where my other point comes in. What will his people think when they see our soldiers. His own people; impoverished, starving and demoralised would begin to wonder why our soldiers have such generous rations, why they look healthy, why they seem in good spirits. It would be when we are giving Ardokian children chocolate bars from our ration packs that they realise that they have been lied to.

Also true - I feel that after initial contacts each time (most people would need to see it to believe it I imagine) then only the crazies or the hardliners would keep fighting, probably believing that the newcomers were tricking them or lying to them (like the Taliban telling people that vaccines are poison, etc)

[The Predator Federation]

When are we intervening in ardoki.

Tg me link.

[New Hampshire Republic]

When are we intervening in ardoki.

Tg me link.

Same, please.

[United States of Devonta]

When are we intervening in ardoki.

Tg me link.

Lol, for now on let's use the word "intervening" not invasion... In the public eye it makes us seen more peaceful and freedom loving. Invading is for conquest.

Or liberation.